fletch512

Originally there was a thread about Joshua getting scammed. Then the mods started a new thread, beginning with Neil (TTK) saying that he's been in contact with the major dealers and there's a plan to raise prices because their expenses have been going up. Then there was a discussion about the pros and cons of raising prices. Then Neil got mad and started calling people ignorant and lots of other unsavory epithets and claiming he was doing them a favor by selling them watches. And then all hell broke loose...

Link to post from TTK

Ruby has a 6-9-12 without the "serie speciale" on the front. But I can't tell from her album which caseback it has. Ruby's album

Same thing here. If anyone knows of a dealer selling the Navi in 12-9-6 layout but without the "serie special" theme (especially without that meserchmidt98948!%$#@ caseback), would you post the info? I've been looking for something like that on our dealers' websites, but haven't found one.

I stand corrected. The case is brushed titanium. And to be more precise, the dial is anthracite with black sub-seconds dial. The movement is OP VIII, which is a modified 7750.

The PAM 89 is supposed to have an "anthracite" color dial. Picture. Also, looks like the case should be brushed steel.

Nice looking watches. Only flaws I see is that the GMT hand is a bit shorter then gen; the triangle on the GMT hand is slightly different in shape; the "swiss made" is supposed to be on either side of thte 12 marking, not beneath; and the usual date font and crown guard issues. Also, the PAM 89 has an anthracite dial, which is not the same as the rep's blue dial. Still, would be a nice watch once the price hits sub-$300.

Nice watch. I'd buy this if a good copy came out. I'd buy the 212, but I can't get past the incorrect seconds markings. Of course if history is any indication, when this watch goes to production, they factory will find a way to insert an obvious flaw.

Here's my anecdotal addition. Josh came out with some new subs a while back. At the time there was some discussion as to whether the cyclops was too far to the right, as was the case with the old Chinese versions of the watch. All the pictures on his site were taken at an angle, so there was no way to tell. I e-mailed and asked whether there was a problem with the positioning. I was told absolutely not. I ordered the watch, with eta movement, so it was more than $200 with shipping. Sure enough, when the watch arrived, the cyclops was too far to the right. The date window actually touched the left side of the cyclops with empty space on the right side (when viewed straight on). If it's just a coincidence that the picture angles covered up this flaw, then it's a mighty big coincidence. Likewise, the pictures of the Panerai reps that have the cyclops & date window are usually taken from angles. Not surprisingly, the biggest faults in these models are the crappy date font and distorted cyclops.

Here's a write up of this watch (with the decorated 1892) on Replica Watch Report.

The dial is steel with the black coating applied on top. So, when the date window is cut out, you can see the steel at the edges. The cyclops magnifies the effect somewhat. You can't see the steel edge when looking straight at the watch, but you can see it when holding the watch at a slight angle. So it's noticeable, but not too bad.

It's functional. Just like the Pam 90 reps.

If there were 20 watches sold, I'm guessing EL is about to get 19 e-mails. This was my first transaction with EL (though I've bought from several other dealers). I can attest to the fact that he's been quick with e-mail responses, and the watch shipped out quickly. Despite these good qualities, I can't rationalize just throwing money away, and that's kinda how I feel about paying $269 for one of the cheaper movements available. If you bought a Sony TV and someone shipped you a Sanyo, would you still keep it because the plastic housing looked nice?

The gen PAM 90 uses the 7750 movement. The rep does not. Here's a website with pictures of the 7750 movement. It's clear that the movements pictured above are not 7750. Miyota/seiko/Asian 21J... whatever you choose to call it, it's not a 7750. Too bad about the movement. The only faults I can spot on this watch are the date pusher (which is not present on the gen) and the usual date font problem. If a 7750 was used, there would be no need to drill the date pusher hole, and you'd have a remarkably good rep. Oh well, still pretty good looking, i guess.

Here's the e-mail EL sent me with regard to the movement: Nice looking watch, no question. But I'm looking at the back of my cheap PAM 090 rep, and it's the exact same movement. Is there a reason it's almost $100 more than the most expensive PAM 090 rep (the one with sapphire crystal, A/R, improved crown guard...),and almost $200 more than the cheapo on my wrist? With a 7750, the price difference is understandable. If it's false advertising, then it seems like that's an awful lot of profit margin.

I'm curious about that as well. If it's the 7750 movement, why does it have the datepusher at the 8 o'clock position? If it's the Miyota, why the much higher price? I went ahead and ordered this watch, and I already own a 090, so I guess I'll find out soon enough. I did ask EL whether the movement inside was truly a 7750. His response was that the miyota movement would not power the power reserve. That's obviously not the case since it works just fine in the $100-$180 (depending on features) Pam 090 reps that are floating around.

Wouldn't this have the same movement as the PAM 90 reps? Same layout and same subdials. Same date pusher at 8 o'clock and everything. I don't think that the 90 has a 7750 inside, though. The cheaper PAM 90 models go for about $100, and I don't see how that includes a 7750 movement. A little bird told me it was a miyota movement, but I don't know enough to recognize it.

My LV from Joshua came in today. I'll post my first impressions for now, and then upload pictures soon. Pros: The dial looks pretty good. The fonts are all correct, including the m in 300m. The lume is really bright. The date magnification is excellent, perhaps a bit larger then modern subs, but I'd rather have a bit larger than a bit smaller. The crown guards are a bit improved. Cons: Here's where it's one step forward, one (maybe two) step backwards. As has been mentioned earlier, the cyclops is too far too the right, maybe by 2 millimeters. If you look at the watch straight on, the date window touches the right side of the cyclops; you have to tilt the watch at an angle to center the date window. On a gen LV, you can see the minute markers to the right of the cyclops. In Josh's version, they are totally eclipsed. I'm a bit perturbed about this as Josh assured me the cyclops was correct prior to me ordering the watch. Next, the pearl is totally flat. It's hard to tell in Josh's photoshopped pictures of the watch, but there's not even a bit of curvature to the pearl. In fact, the whole bezel needs to be changed because the numbers are too close (touching) to the crystal. The crown etching at 6 o'clock is very obvious, unlike my other rep from Trusty, which has a more subtle etching. Next, either the large six o'clock marker is a bit off to the left, or the "swiss made" is a bit off to the right (this is pretty minor, though). Next, the bezel does not align properly at the 12 o'clock marker; maybe off by a millimeter. Finally, while I mentioned above that the crown guards are slightly improved, they are still far from perfect, and far from what I've seen in PT's ultimate sub. The crown guards are asymetrical, with the top one being closer to the crown then the bottom one. Summary: Under normal lighting conditions, no one will probably notice faults from 3-4+ feet away. I have pretty good eyes, so maybe I catch things a normal observer would not. However, close inspection reveals a few dead giveaways that this is a rep. Specifically, the misaligned cyclops, the flat pearl, the bezel, and even the crown guards. I do love the date mag on this thing, and wish PT could transplant that over. Until then, the hunt for the "perfect" sub rep will continue for me.

Nope, that's the real deal. Taken from another site: A PAM 253... essentially a PAM 212 (Luminor 44mm '1950' Flyback), but in a limited run to commemorate the 2006 Regatta/Yachts Challenge ~ Specs: Luminor 1950 Flyback Regatta 44mm PAM 00253 Brushed steel case Automatic mechancial movement Panerai OP XIX calibre Black dial Functions: hours, minutes, small seconds. Flyback chronograph with 2 counters, tachymeter scale; Rubber strap Brushed steel adjustable buckle. Price is slated to be $7600 Euros.

I think he means "terrific." I have the PAM 90 with the Miyota (what's referred to above as "Asian") movement. It keeps good time, and I've read that it's a very reliable movement.

Who has the Pam 90 with ETA?

If you're talking about the PAM 90, the date font is wrong, the "power reserve" wording is a bit too low, and the original doesn't have date pusher on the case in the 8 o'clock position (at least as far as I can tell from pictures). Still, it's a pretty close rep. There are two styles floaring around. The more expensive one has a better crown guard, the date mag is a bit better, and the back is solid like the gen.

That's a real Pam 90. The date font is the same as the real one, or at least different from any rep I've seen. Also, the "Power Reserve" is in the correct location. The reps have "Power Reserve" too close to the 5 o'clock hash mark. The crown looks right for this model. More pictures of original here. Neil, if you sell this rep with the correct date wheel, please let me know how to get one.

I think this is a fantasy watch. VC made several highly complicated 250 anniversary watches, but none that I could find that resembled this one. VC 250 anniversary link.