RickFlorida

Someone paid nearly 8,000 dollars for it.  So how fake can it be?  

Or did someone just overpay for an original movement with an original case and fake dial?

Yes, thank you.  That's what I indeed contacted him about already.  He is very friendly and quick to respond.   It's a bit expensive but he know's what he's doing so I guess it's worth it.  I will probably have him engrave between the lugs, but for the case back, I believe the Rafflestime Tudor caseback fits these.     Machine shot rates are probably 75 dollars an hour, and so his charge of about 2 hours worth at that rate sounds correct.  

OK, great.  I will open it up soon.  I already did order an Athaya 702 crown and will want to get a better crystal.

I'm just surprised that the dial is 26mm.  I'm guessing the super dome crystal magnify's the dial so it appears larger than it really is?

I will be very happy if I can just buy a better bezel or tighten up this one and add a better insert.   I might just be very used to the stiffer ratcheting bezels but I still think it moves very easily.

I will do this tonight.

Thank you.

I think you are right because they laser engraved 1665 between the lugs.    I'm going to rub these off, they mispelled "stailess steel" on one side, LOL.  Got to love it.  So the fixed the crown guards but could not spell stainless steel?    

Thank you.

I am really confused as to whether this is the JoshCartel 5513 or not.

Anyone know from the photos?  I just need to be sure because I want to order a 26mm tudor dial for the case.

How are dials measured because to me it seems closer to 29mm .

I don't have a picture, but I checked between the lugs.   It says "1665 registered design" on one end and "the funny "Stailess Steel" misprint.

So it is indeed Cartel but the 1665?      Luckily, the misprinted engravings are only laser engraved very lightly.  I will remove these in order to build my Tudor Sub.

So can I expect the correct tension/washer ring in the bezel to bend and add tension?

Here you go.  Sorry for the blown out white balance.  I was in a hurry.

So is this the right kind of Josh/Cartel?  I bought it directly from Sead1999 (Sandro Lica?)

I like it.  Maybe I'm just too OCD and use to the newer clicking bezels, but I swear mine is way too loose.

If it's Gen. Like construction, I would even be willing to buy a different bezel and maybe with the new crystal it will all be tighter.

Yes, I would like that very much so I'll post a photo tonight.    There is a lot of confusion so I'd like to know what it is too.   For example, some of them come with 2836/46 clones.   But some have DG2813 which are very different.  I bought the cheaper one because all I wanted was the case.

I'll try to post later tonight.

Ah thank you.

I have much to learn.  Luckily, I'm a very fast learner and somewhat mechanical.

May I ask you then, how can I adjust the tension?   It's way too loose.  It has almost no friction.

Hello gents and ladies,

I just got a Josh/Cartel 5513 Rep, (the one that comes with 21J/DG2813) and I'm impressed with the fit and finish but the bezel spins very freely.

Do they not use any flat tension spring at all or is there one in there I can adjust?    Have people used gen. replacement type tension spring washers?  I'd rather do that then make one.

The funny thing is, I only need the midcase and would not have cared if anything else was broken or not working.   I bought it for a build I'm wanting to do.  Such is my luck.   

thanks for any advice,

Rick

Agreed, which is why I can't wait to hear from the German fellow who thinks it's so easy to do this.    I won't be rushing this build, thanks to you guys pointing out the important challenges that can arrive.

Maybe what I have left out of the story is just how well my 2824-2 has been serving me.  I currently have it where it was born which is in a EPOS dive style watch with a Marathon tritium dial.  The movement has been incredibly accurate for it's 8 or 9 years I've had it.    I trust it and just don't want to buy a different movement unless I have to.

If it proves difficult, then even if I purchase a second Josh/Cartel 5513 but next time with the 2836/46 clone.... I still would have only spent 300 something dollars.  I could sell my swiss ETA 2824-2 and purchase the 2846 ETA if I really have to.

I'd still save hundreds of dollars over buying a 1000 dollar yuki case.  

I would really love to be able to see just the mid case of the Cartel 5513 that ships with the 21J (2813) and the  200 dollar 5513 mid case that has the other movement and see if the they are really different.

Thanks for the great advice.  I just read that at least for the 702 Athaya, the threads in the Cartel case are identical.  

As for my budget, I want to do the best I can with the Cartel Case.  I just simply don't see the logic in spending 1000 bucks on a case to make a rep.

Unless I'm incorrect, don't we have only 2 choices?   Cartel/Josh cases for 100 bucks, or 800 to 1000 dollar phongs or Yukis?

And if that is true, why is no one else tooling up some nice gen. spec cases ans selling them for 200 or 250?

From what I have read, if you get a better case back, (flatter than Cartel), and better insert with quality pearl, then fix the cg's as best you can, replace the horrid crown.... it's not a bad case, especially for 100 bucks.  I've heard the bezel ring is near gen.

But I think you are correct that a gen. spec case on the inside would make it easier to then get a ETA  conversion ring/dial from Yuki if that's what you mean.

I was considering trying to get the case/watch from the mysterious storefront in Thailand I see you guys talking about.   But it seems you have to know someone who flies to the country.  (and people are hoarding the cases in their drawers, LOL)

But according to this German fellow, he's saying it's easy to drop my swiss movement into a 21J version (2813) Cartel.

I PM'd this guy and am hoping he can tell me just how easy it is..... We shall see!

I don't know whether to get a 702 crown or a 703 crown from Athaya.   What is the difference?  Or which one is better if I want to build an old Tudor from the Josh/Cartel 5513?

Thanks for any info.

I will hopefully be able to post pictures soon of my project.

Hmm, interesting.   Than I need to ask the German fellow I saw who posted on another forum who said it was very easy to fit a 2824-2 in a 2813 5513 case.  His definition of easy may be different from ours.

I'll have to see what he meant then.

That's interesting that they would bother to make two different cases, unless they are originally from two different makers entirely.

Guess I will find out soon enough,  I will report more information once I get the parts in hand.

Thanks again.

Update thanks to all you fine Gents, 

Firstly, Admins or moderators, can you please edit my thread title?  I should have mentioned I'm building a Tudor Sub with Josh/Cartel 5513

Tomhorn is correct about the confusion I caused.  I'm not building a 5513, I just am starting with that for the case.   Thank you.

So I think I figured out a few things that may help others.  First, thank you Tomhorn for getting me to look into the differences of what you may get with the 5513.  I believe I understand enough now to sum it all up:    Let me know if I'm wrong but I think I figured it all out.

If you pay for a Josh/Cartel 5513 and it's only 100 to 110 then it's going to come with the DG2813 which is good if you want to fit a swiss ETA 2824-2 which I happen to already own.

If you pay for the more expensive cartel 5513 you get the better cloned movement but will be easier to fit a 2846 or 2836.

Now here is one more question for you guys about movements and the case.   Wouldn't the Cartel 5513 case still be the same but just comes with a different spacer ring if it's the 2813 or the cloned 2836?  Is it not a single spacer ring that would move the stem height and center the crown stem?

I also ask because from what I'm reading, the 2813 Cartel 5513 may be coming with a plastic ring insert instead of a metal one like the better cloned movement.  (unless I'm wrong from the other threads),

And I would want to purchase a metal insert ring anyways to fit my movement.

Can anyone tell me if there really is a difference in the cases or is it just a single spacer ring like I assume?

Nice!!!

So the latest info I have is that the Cartel/Josh 5513 that I'm getting has 21 jewel movement.     If it's 21 Jewels, doe this indicate if it's the 2813 clone?    I'm just wondering so I can plan on what spacers I will need, etc.

Thank you, gents.  I see now how important the fitting of movement will be.   I will do as you say and take the time to get the right movement.   Now to be clear, are either slow beat ETA's available without date wheel?  In other words, does it matter for me to get the 2836 eta or 2846 if I am building a no date tudor sub with the josh 5513 case ?

Hello, I please need a josh 5513 case to be engraved for Tudor sub numbers/info.

Does Vac. do that or can he recommend someone please?  I'm also in Florida.

thanks.  Will send him a PM.

Does he do engravings on cases?

Yes, thank you guys.

If I didn't mention it, yes, I'll drill the lugs to 2mm.

My issue now is that I'm hearing that my 2824-2 ETA may have a stem height issue with the Cartel (josh) 5513.   I didn't get the Josh 5513 but probably will next week.  

That will be a problem for me, to have to sell my ETA 2824-2 and swap for an ETA 2836 or 2846.   For the life of me I cannot sell anything on Ebay or craigslist lately.   I'm having really bad luck selling things.   Hope i can still use my current movement.

Thanks Gents, I'll try to get parts soon so I can post progress.

I didn't receive the Josh 5513 yet but he says it's going to be a 21J.

So hmmm,  I didn't realize there was a stem height difference in ETA 2824-2 vs the other ETA's. 

Can the stem height be changed on a 2824-2 or switched out?   

Yes I believe you are right.   But after reading all of the posts I can find... I don't know how to see the correct contours of the crown guards.  I only read that they should be shaved down.  Yes they look stubby.  I could search for pictures and then approximate, but would like to look for specs that someone may already have for the dimensions of crown guards., etc.

There is a lot of good information, and probably once I have the 5513 in my hands and start measuring things, I will have some less questions.

I guess I should just post my progression here, and will do my best to search for information as well.

thanks,

Rick

Hello everyone.   Hopefully I have this in the right section now, and will keep all my posts nice and tidy on this same thread as I should be able to use searching when needed and maybe ask a few questions as I build my project here.  

So many have you have helped me in the other threads about the basics.   I've decided to build a Tudor Sub by using a Josh 5513.   I'm new to this, and don't yet want to invest yet in a Yuki or other 800 case.  I do have some experience making jewelry so I should be able to manage the project decently if you gents don't mind helping me with specs every now and then.

Please feel free to add to this discussion if I have my plan incorrect or if you have any recommendations.

The Goal:   To build a Tudor Sub using a Josh 5513 and a ETA 2824-2 I already own.  (yes it's not a slowbeat, but I already own a 10 year old perfectly running ETA).  I will eventually just wear it on a Nato Strap as I already love using those on my current watch which is a Hybrid watch made of EPOS case and Marathon dial.

Do I have this initial plan correct?

Purchase Josh 5513

Purchase ETA adapter ring from Raffles (Since my 2824-2 case and Josh 5513 are no date, the ETA adpater ring should work)  (From what I've read here.)

Purchase A tudor dial.  (Not sure where to get this yet, I guess I have to get it from Yuki since Josh 5513 will fit 26mm dial)  

Some of you say purchase a better crystal.  (was it clarks t-19 or something like that?)

Shave down the stubby guards.   (I can file, sand, and re-polish with my jewelry skills, but where do I get the specs?  I have no genuine case for reference.  Can you recommend pictures or specs?

I'm hearing to purchase Athaya Crown/tube?    Or is there a different one I should get if it's a Tudor?   Not sure what to do here so please suggest if you can.

Another main question is this.    Does the ETA adapter ring help with how the feet of the dial is different or does it only help for spacing?

Also, why did I read someone had to use glue on some of the parts.  Is there no way to avoid using glue for anything?  As a jewelry (hobbyist), one should never use glue if things are fitted properly. The only exception is Pearls, as they are too delicate for friction fit.

Thank you gentlemen, I will post all of my work on this same thread and would appreciate any advice or answers.

Thank you, and yes, I am going to use my 2824-2 in the Josh 5513 case I'm buying.      I know it's not a slow beat, but I already have the 2824-2.   Will the adapter rings we are talking about fit in the same way as it would for a slowbeat ETA you are mentioning?

I'm not sure but I think Helenarou is even better.  I'm kind of going the cheaper route but many people are fine with the josh 5513 case.      For serious priced cases I would rather just save up for a beat up old original Tudor.    

Do I understand correctly that Raffles site is the only place to get cheap ETA adapter rings?

I have a 2824-2 That I would like to install in a 5513 Josh case, (once I buy the watch).

How do I  know what all the parts I will need are to pull this off?