RickFlorida

I believe the Mk3 dials (lollipop) have a slightly enlarged dial plot to where it almost "kisses" the minute markers. I guess I'm super OCD if I only notice it compared to most people. But I really like them and the case I have being made now is going to match the late 70's. I don't like the quality of Rubywatch dials. From the photos, the overall quality of the dial are not high enough so now my idea is to get a different dial and simply have someone enlarge the plots by hand. I think that is the only difference anways. I think the hands are the same size and only the plots are slightly bigger. The Lollipop version of Tudor Subs is a different animal altogether and does have different hands and different dials. But for the Rolex 5513, only the plots on the dial are different (just slightly larger). Below is a lollipop Mk3 dial. The plots just about touch the minute markers because the plot is slightly larger by being elongated. I just need to find someone who can elongate the plots by hand if I get a regular dial I assume. They are called lollipop because with the round lot touching the minute hand, it's like a lollipop. (But you have to turn your head for the correct orientation, get it?) I didn't get it either at first.

I guess I should have asked.... who makes custom dials so I can have one made.

Rubywatch has the dial on her/his site and then when I emailed, she/said yes to the dial but that the hands are not available. That made me realize the hands were different I assume.

Something I didn't think about is the hands. Did the 5513 Mk3 dial (lollipop) have specific/different hands too? So even if I find a dial, I may need different hands. This project sounds impossible now.

I didn't know Helenarou made an Eta adapter to put ETA's in genuine spec Rolex 15xx cases. I thought only Yuki did? Is one better than the other for anyone whose tried both?

Thank you Jackflash and Hologramet. I have a Vietnam midcase that came with no crown so I indeed use an Athaya 702 and have to admit it has not had a water intrusion problem. However, I recently received a genuine sub crown that came with a 1520 movement and what I noticed is the inside gasket was massive and heavy duty looking. I think the crown is a 704 or maybe a 703. It just looks so much better and heavier duty looking. But I understand the period correctness for 5517 you are talking about. I guess I was kind of high jacking the thread to understand the construction of the Ruby case crown but I think it's helpful to know for this build here as well the information about either crown. It sounds like the crown that comes with a Vietnam case is clunky and not good anyways so it sounds like a good idea to always use Athaya or a gen on it for any build. So thank you, this has been helpful and I think helpful for this cool 5517 project here.

If we buy a complete Ruby case, what is the need for an Athaya 702 crown? What version of the crown comes on Ruby case and what are the advantages disadvantages? I know the Athaya 702 looks incredible but the clutch springs in crowns are weak. Plus, if the Ruby crown is 703 or 704, it will be more water proof than the Athaya 702. I'm about to order a Ruby case so I really would like to please know.

Does anyone know where I could get an aftermarket 5513 mk3 lollipop dial from for genuine movements? The Vietnam sources are awesome but it's confusing to know if all 3 just get their stuff from the same sources? I ask because the Vietnam source I currently use, does not seem to have mk3 lollipop dials even though the dials are a simple matte dial. Does no one really make these perhaps? You would think the explorer sub dial and the mk3 lollipop would be very popular aftermarket dials or does the Vietnam source like to not make these because they would get too much attention? The explorer sub dial is supposed to be glossy and not matte so that is harder to make right I bet. But wouldn't the mk3 lollipop dial be easy to make?

You make excellent points, Automatico, and I appreciate your details and knowledge here.

I totally understand your logic and agree that it's more cost effective to try and modify Cartel cases. But I don't believe that's really possible anymore and please let me know if I'm wrong. I thought I heard that the new Cartel 5513 cases don't have genuine spec crystal "necks". (the part that is around 28.2 mm for the rystal). I also find it hard to imagine that the inside of the case can really be machined to not only fit the 15XX movements but to also have the right stem height. Since Cartel cases use movement rings and rolex cases do not, there must be a lot more "slop" and space inside the cartel case. It's hard for me to hope that you could ever get the right stem height. But like I mentioned before, I could swear that the new cartel cases for 5513 have non genuine size crystal necks. We don't really have a choice anymore to build 5513's. What's really really frustrating is I see a butt load of aftermarket seiko diver cases being made in high quality and for as little as 37 dollars. It cant' be this hard to make a 5513 case and I think with determination we can hopefully once day solve this problem.

Does Big Dazza have a website?

nice! Yeah, how are you gonna pick out a case? Gen case are like 4 to 9K now and Phong and son are completely off the radar. They don't respond to emails at least from new customers. Yuki stopped making 5513 cases. The only people who make cases are both connected to each other and in Vietnam. I think we are lucky that MQ and Rubywatch does not raise their prices as they are the last people who can make cases as far as I know.

Ah, I see why your's looks so different. Very cool!

Nice watch, JackFlash! I like your bezel/insert! My insert I designed is obviously more flat that the traditional fifty fathoms style of the diamond lume I used but I wanted to make it flat and simple after seeing other mods like that. I might play around and make a traditional insert with 15, 45 markers and the lines but I will personally use the simple one. You are in the UK? It was ill be interesting to see how long my vostok takes to get here to the USA with the pandemic. I ordered my Amphibian 2 weeks ago and they warned me how long things are taking. So I'll have time to paint my insert once I get it.

There is no audio but here is how I made an insert for a vostok amphibian on the way to me. I bought a bezel that fits seiko inserts but due to the pandemic, shipping costs are outrageous from Dagaz or other insert dealers. So I made my own insert and will have Shapeways print it in aluminum. Then I'll paint it black and fill the lume hole I made with yellow or cream lume. https://us.bbcollab.com/collab/ui/session/playback/load/da434f68fed841bfac8d3c228fc774ff

Some updates yes. They are good and bad. The good is that I'm learning a lot about how this is done and possible. There are tolerance terms like "constrained" and many different technologies that I didn't even know for how to reverse engineer. The bad news is that it's rather expensive. (Some quotes were 3600 dollars). I did get some quotes as low as 600 dollars to reverse engineer but what I'm worried about is that once I pay to have it reverse engineered, what if I find out the cost to have a single case made from the CNC file exceeds the 600 dollar cost from Rubywatch or MQ? Although there is the danger they may stop making cases like everyone else has. (Yuki stopped making 5513's, Phong and his son are impossible to reach right now, etc.) Sadly, the most eager and lowest cost engineer I found who wants to replicate my sterile MQ case is in Slovenia and the shipping costs due to pandemic make the cost 137 dollars just to ship the small case to him! That's one way! Russia is still air mailing things cheap as i bought a Vostok watch and shipping was 9 bucks last week. But every other country wants incredible shipping costs. So I'm trying to keep my reverse engineer quote in the USA where I am. I found a guy who will do it for 450 for just the midcase. I'm still hesitant until I talk to another guy next week so stay tuned. Once I know what the cost to have one made from the file is, then I'll be more likely to find the money to have the reverse engineering done.

Yes. The watchcases from MQ and Rubywatch look identical to the 5513 cases from NTD Trading's website so we have long believe it's the same source or family. I have a new theory by the way. I wonder if Natalie use to import them once someone ordered them but then new laws or something spooked her into not wanting to import anymore. In other words, Natalie never made the items here in the States. She would just import them from Vietnam so it kind of makes it pointless for us and more risk for her. To answer your question about Phong or his son. To my understanding they do get in trouble and that's why they change or lose websites lately and they are not responding to emails.

Thanks. I'm not trying to be cheap or lazy. My plan is still to have a guy 3D scan and reverse engineer my case but I feel like if I don't write down what the thread profiles are, they will get it different or wrong. So having all the data I can before hand will help verify. Supposedly, the 3D scanning that some people can do on Fiverr.com is up to .05mm accuracy. I asked one of them which scanner they would use and it checked out. But they would still have to reverse engineer it and put in the CNC software what size and profile the threads are so I'm kind of worried that if I don't know all the original thread profiles, it will be slightly different when reverse engineered. I guess if the scanner is accurate to .05mm it will be okay but I figured why not ask people before hand. I thought I was all done when I got the gold nugget of information that the case back threads are 31mm by .5 pitch by 60 degree profile. Then I realized there are even stranger threads when you get to where the movement sits!

Thanks guys, I forgot to mention that I too called Natalie a while back and left a voice mail. I wonder why she risks so much by leaving the website? To be in USA and have a website with replica Rolex parts and not even making a dollar during the risk? This lady has balls of steel. I like this Natalie woman. I would not screw with her ! She must be some kind of bad ass.

Does anyone know the story with NDT Trading which is based in California? They would be the perfect source for rolex parts. Their website is fully operational (or at least still being paid for to be hosted) but all my research indicates they have not sold anything is over 4 years. Maybe even 6 or 8 years. They don't respond to inquiries but the website would be a good source of parts. Especially for those in the USA who hate wiring money to Vietnam. Why would you leave a website on for years that exposes you to Rolex replica parts while based in the USA if you have no intention of selling anymore? So is there a referral we need to be able to purchase from them? Did this person fall prey to a California mountain lion but left the website host on auto pay and it went through for 8 years?

Thanks. All I want to ask him is how did he or his case maker figure out the threading that start where the movement screw sits (the half moon shaped cut out). The threads from there to where the dial sits. I figured out the caseback threads but it then steps down to a smaller diameter. It's really hard to figure out how these threads were made. Maybe he has drawings? By the way, the picture is just from the internet for quick reference, it's not mine. Maybe he can give the contact information to the company that made his cases? Whatever is easiest or comfortable with him.

The case doesn't even have the half-moon shaped cut out for the movement screws. But the crown guards are not real bad. I wonder if the case was a Helenarou that was worked and then engraved?

I like Helenarou dials for their price and their fit for ETA movements. The triangle at 12 O-clock on Yuki's is way way too short. I didn't notice this until someone showed me the Helenarou or other dials. I can't believe how short the triangle is on a Yuki dial compared to gen. But there is no perfect ETA fitting rolex dial you have to just go with what you decide. The lume color is really really wrong on them but I love everything else about the Helenarou 5513 dial. It may have other flaws that are beyond my knowledge but it works if you are just trying to fit to ETA. I wondered this too but I strongly believe that it's due to volume and interest. The large wholesalers are filling a larger demand for replicas of newer rolexes so they get more updates and quality. The market for accurate vintage replicas is a tiny portion of the market for newer rolex. At least this is what I think is the reason we won't get perfect cases from them. The scary thing is that one by one the vintage replica case makers are disappearing. NTD Trading in California stopped selling over 4 years ago (but her website is still up so I wonder why she is paying for it. Phong does not answer any emails, at least to me. And his son's website is completely gone. So that leaves us only with Rubywatch and MQ in Vietnam for good cases. That is why I'm desperately trying to reverse engineer a 5513 case for CNC file uploading in case we never have a source.

Thanks again everyone, especially Automatico. So I have a new question I need to work on before I try to get a CNC file made. One thing I didn't realize is that the rolex screws slip under the first radius (that the half-moon cut out shape for the screws). So the threads that seem to go all the way down inside the midcase even after this half-moon shape radius are more important than I thought. I assume the threads are there due to how the half-moon shape radius is created. The diameter of these threads (if that's what they are) is smaller than the diameter of the caseback. So now I think I have to discover what these threads are dimension-wise. I only have an MQ case but it does have the half-moon shape and fits 15xx so I should be okay if the reverse engineering is done on this. Does anyone have any other knowledge of these inner threads from the half moon shape to where the dial sits?