PAMman

The seller says "I BELIEVE IT IS Mens Model # 2200.50.00 OMEGA RED LEATHER BOX, CARDS, TAGS"

How come he only believes it to be this model - if he has the cards and tags he will know for sure. The clasp is wrong (no PLANET OCEAN text), photos are rubbish, no sign of a serial number on the lugs. I'm not an Omega expert but I don't like the look of it. Be careful.

Check out the 'Rolex sent by mail order to Stalag Luft III' in this thread. This is a top collectors item.

http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread....ighlight=tutima

I got the 3717 too, but I deliberately bought the 21.6K version as I wanted to transplant a Swiss movement into it. However it is still running fine on the old one but surgery is coming up soon. You won't regret the 3717 - you can only fully appreciate it when it's on your arm.

21.6K or 28.8K???

If you click on the Perfectclones link in the first post the heading specifically states 'Asian 7750 chrono 28,800bph'.

Has Joshua got it wrong or is he now supplying the newer movement?

The wire insulation is similar to the Jimmy Fu setup, but I have found a childs (girls) toy / craft material which is very good. This is fine, coloured, plastic tubing that girls twist and plait to make wristbands and key fobs etc. I don't know what it is called but ask any 10 or 12 year old and they should be able to point you in the right direction. It's finer than most readily available electrical wire insulation and just the correct size. Just steal some off your neighbours kid.

Been there, Done that.

On the Navitimer you need to remove the caseback and movement & dial, push out the crystal from the inside, lift out the white sliderule scale and this will reveal 3 or 4 (can't remember which) small screws that hold the outer SS bezel in place. These must be loose if the whole thing is moving sideways. Tighten them and use 'Locktite' and you should be OK. If you've got this far, putting it all back again should be obvious.

I would agree with the 001 or 111 and would add the 002 /112 (base models without the running seconds).

Personally I prefer the older painted dials in the 44mm models and the 001 or 002 with the closed backs are the most accurate and ultimately the most reliable when fitted with the Swiss 6497 as it will not have been altered in any way. For me?...........the Swiss 002.

The dial is good but not 100% accurate. The digits are narrower than the genuine but you would need both side by side to notice.

How well does the RG finish hold up? Does anyone know?

You have answered your own question better than I could.............................The Zigmeister!

Hi all

I have few questions about rep Navitimers,

1) Is it possible to get a waterproof Navitimer?

2) What if i want to get a genuine leather strap? I am a skinny white guy, how realistic is the rep leather strap? what if i want to get a genuine leather strap? can i walk into an AD and say it is for a friend and fit it myself?

3) Can you get a Navitimer with a swiss movement?

1. Waterproof? I don't think so - the crown doesn't screw down (even on the gen Breitling) and the pushers are certain to leak.

2. Genuine strap - I bought one from an AD a few weeks ago with no hassle. However the rep leather strap and buckle is the best quality and most accurate replica strap, by a long margin. It is not a cheap and nasty item.

3. Swiss. Yes, Josh (Perfect Clones) sells these but they are expensive. Buy a rep with the 6, 9, 12 dial layout, get the Asian movement serviced and you likely will have no problems. If it does die then it can be swapped for the Swiss 7750 easily.

We need to know the level of finish and decoration.

AFAIK the 6497-2 was only supplied to watch manufacturers and was not sold as a replacement item. I bought one for an ultimate PAM and it was originally intended for a Hamilton of some sort. The finish is much better than the standard 6497 with blued screws and sunburst wheels, similar to the Cdg decorated 6497-1, but the top plates have polished hammered finish rather than the Cdg stripes. The whole of the movement is well finished, even on the dial side which normally can't be seen.

I may be interested in a 6497-2 but the finish would be the determining factor. The normal decorated 6497-1 has broad Cdg stripes almost identical to the preA Panerai which used the 6497-2. I also have 2 of these 6497-1s, with one fitted in a Jimmy Fu case, with a genuine preA dial, gen tritium hands, gen crown & stem, gen CG etc. I looks 100% correct apart from the Panerai stamp on the movement, but should have been a higher beat 6497-2.

However I have seen decorated 6497-2 movements with a narrower Cdg stripe at 45 degrees to the decorated 6497-1. This pattern is visually identical to the earlier pre-Vendome Panerai movement but it was based on the slower beat 6497-1. Perverse or what? I have already enquired if the top plates can be swapped around but no-one seems to know the answer as parts for the 6497-1 and 6497-2 don't share the same part numbers. I just went ahead and got mine assembled on the basis of visual accuracy rather than functional correctness.

Please read the 'Pre-A and T-SWISS-T Officine Panerai 1997-1998' article in the Archive section of Paneristi.com. This gives an excellent insight into the various movements in these earlier PAMs. All Swiss manufactured Panerai used the 6497-2. Possibly we can get 6497-2s with the same pattern as the current PAM000 & 005 (yet another Cdg variation). That would be nice.

Bottom line - I'm interested but need detail.

Looks good. Maybe the QC issues are being addressed at last. Thanks for the photos.

The dial with 3 silver subdials was fitted to the 2 gold versions only (white gold / gold gold). All SS watches had a black sub dial for the constant seconds at 9.

Please use only the proper bracelet pin removing tool and in my experience all CGs, except the PAM 036 Ti, are removed from the bottom and replaced via the top. A useful tip for replacing the pin is to use the same tool to press the pin in, but place a piece of flat metal between the tool and the head of the pin (after they are properly aligned) to prevent the tip of the tool slipping off the pin and damaging the polished surface of the CG. I use a craft knife blade at right angles to the pins and the top of the pin can be pressed flush with the top of the CG without any damage. This is particularly useful when assembling one of Jimmy Fu's CGs as the pin is a tight fit in the rubber bushing and the pressure required makes a slip inevitable.

Looks great. I've just bought a gen clasp for mine. It is unused and too good a bargain to let go.

Just be careful that you're getting the correct dial. The gold and SS versions have different dials, with the gold watch having all 3 subdials in silver but the SS watch should have a black subdial for the running seconds at 9. Some dealers have the 'gold' dial in the SS case.

If you ordered the Swiss ETA Steelfish from Joshua (Perfectclones) you will get a Swiss ETA, don't worry. It is probably the best rep out there - top quality and very accurate. Get a genuine leather or rubber strap and there is no danger of anyone spotting this as a rep.

For the 44mm Luminor / Luminor Marina handwound watches these all had polished CGs from the preA & A-F series. The G series had the first brushed, larger CGs similar in size, shape and finish to the preV (Italian) watches.

OK, I'll take this slot. (Based in UK) I can pay via Paypal when it's confirmed that I'm in.

One of my all-time favourites too. Great photos, thanks.

OK, I'm totally prepared to contribute all I can to make this happen. At the suggested cost I assume that there will be only a few genuinely interested players but this would tie in with the small number of engraved base dials that I have. Done properly these 02A / 02B 'T dials' really would be the 'mutts nuts'.

I'm definitely in. I think that the most realistic option is to have the T SWISS T 2A dial replicated with the correct fonts etc. If this is nicely printed and then hand lumed it would be a close copy of the A series dial, although the indicies were engraved on the genuine before being 'overfilled' to give the characteristic sausage effect.

I have 7 of Jimmy Fu's engraved dials which could be used as blanks for this project - he had his engraved and printed without any name, but with a L SWISS L designation. However these could be totally cleaned to use as a base. I don't think that they are available anymore. Using these engraved dial blanks makes a 100% accurate copy of the 2A dial a possibility for 7 people, including me.

The T SWISS T dial was used on the A series and early B series watches. B series rep casebacks are available to complete the ulimate T dial rep with a Jimmy Fu CG and Palp crown.

I can provide good scans of genuine T dials if anyone can take this forward.

This is completely normal on the Asian 7750 and, in my experience, on the original Swiss ETA/Valjoux 7750 to a lesser extent also. It seems that this is a design quirk that may be exaggerated in the Asian copy due to machine tolerance levels being lower. I always set the time 'backwards' by going a couple of minutes past the current time then reversing the minute hand to precisely the desired time. This eliminates any 'slack' and keeps the minute hand correct.

As seen by the "dagger" oops in another thread, I am not at that level of eagle-eyedness, so I am sure I have been fooled many times. But recently, a chap posted a photo of his PAM 005, and someone said, "Gen right?", because of the "mosca" placement. I'm not sure, but I believe he got it wrong.

Just a 'heads up' if anyone is interested.

Check out Watchco in Australia www.watchco.com.au

They have new Rolex 7mm triplock crowns available at $15 AUD which is approx 12.5$ USD. These are new and unused but loose packed (not bubble packed). I have found Watchco to be an excellent source of genuine material at fair prices.