PAMman

There is no doubt that the supply of ETA movements will be more restricted and costly than was previously the case and this will enevitably lead to other companies offering alternatives.

However, I struggle to understand what logic that lies behind the Asian company, which manufactures the 28,800 7750 clone, producing a good quality viable alternative to one of the most popular chrono movements, yet altering the hand size to prevent it being a straight swap. Setting aside the obvious aggravation for us upgrading from Asian to Swiss this needless alteration means that a watch repair shop cannot easily replace a faulty Swiss 7750 with the Asian version as an alternative to costly repairs / service and mainsteam manufacturers cannot easily switch to using the Asian movement. Presumably the Swiss companies which use the ETA ebauche could equally use an Asain ebauche and retain their 'Swiss Made' status due to the relative low value of the imported component.

Love it. I have one of these with the black sub dials and black bezel. Less brash and much more exclusive than a Daytona and really only high-end rep money if bought used at a good keen price. Better investment than a rep too.

However I bought a couple of gen dials with the intent of putting one into a rep Daytona case together with a ETA or A7750 but ended up with the gen. Should be an easy project though without the secs at 6 issue to worry about.

only swiss 7750 is about 350$, i dont belive this is genuine ETA inside ,btw link doesn't work

The link did work but TRC seems to be down AGAIN.

Is there a way to remove scratches from mineral crystals?

Yes, but it's less of a DIY job tham plexi. Same principles apply but diamond paste needed.

SS non-chrono, Lello datewheel & AR.

I have worn the gen SS watch and the rep is so close that you won't notice the difference. I have a friend who has the AMG chrono and my rep truly feels better due to the superb finish, the simple classic dial and the extra heft. A modded SS rep is probably the best replica available, bar none.

If the rep can be fitted with a 2892 movement that's the way I'm going as I have a new ETA 2892 decorated movement and I think that this is the only worthy home for it.

Too good to be true for USD$400 ETA7750..........I can't believe this....

Best Regards,

Raymond

Mmmmm..... me too. If I was confident I would be in there, like a rat up a drainpipe.

Has anyone had any dealings with this 'Replica Collector' dealer?

The old adage "If it sounds too good to be true it probably is" seems to fit here, but maybe I'm wrong. I would be interested to know if any of the members here have had any experience with this guy.

LINK:

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=32814

Well starting with the 201 A in 1993 all historic pam dials were engraved all the way to the G series (2004). Just the Tritium/lume filling technique was different. The Pre-Vs had a very thin coating of Tritium on the inside of the engraving and then filled with varnish. The pre-As had more tritium but still concave. The As were right below the edge of the engraving to right at the edge. Starting with B dials all the way up to G dials is what are called the panited/some times sausage dials as the Tritium/lume was filled all the way to overflow, hence the domed/sausage look.

PAM 036 is an early B so it has the domed Tritium.

Carpe Diem

The preVendome 5218/201A, 202A etc and the preA 001, 002, 004 & 009 had the same style engraved brass base dial with the lume applied in a similar manner but the preV dials were filled up with clear varnish while the preA dials were not. The preA dials were identified by T-SWISS-T. Next came the 'A' series dials which were also engraved but the indicies were the more modern shape (2, 6 & 9) and now the engraving was overfilled with Tritium lume giving the 'sausage' effect. This style of dial was carried on into the early 'B' series and these can all be identified by the T SWISS T. However the automatic T SWISS T dials 027, 029 etc were not engraved but had the tritium applied on top of a printed marker on a flat dial, resulting in a more pronounced 'sausage' effect.

During the 'B' series Panerai introduced Luminova dials with the L SWISS L and contrary to popular belief these were neither painted on top of a flat dial or engraved into the dial but the black surface was a thin sandwich layer with cut out markers. I know this for an absolute fact because I had a genuine 111F and had to have the dial replaced under warranty because the black layer lifted around the edge of the 2. The narrow pointed part on top of the base of the 2 began to curl back from the sharp tip so I think that the black layer may be a solid black plastic or similar material. Possibly that is how the genuine dilas have a faint texture.

I have read an article where Dirk Grandy explained that some of the preA dials were actually preV dials refinished by Vendome by applying a similar layer on top of the original 5218 dials so this method of layering dials was already established before the 'B' series were introduced. I now have a genuine 005 and the edge of the top layer is clearly visible through a loupe.

I like the Tudor subs better than Rolex, possibly because there is an automatic assumption that Rolex = fake. However the military dial / snowflake is my favourite and I just wish there was a good rep. I know that WM produced a few reps but the hands were too thick and the dial wasn't too accurate either. It's a shame that there isn't a good ETA rep of these because it shouldn't be too hard to do.

Count me in for sure.

I fully agree that the case and dial should be 1:1 and should accept a genuine 2892 as an aftermarket swap. As long as the crown and tube are good then there's not much left to go wrong.

Don t know if you know this

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/panerai/carpediem/h...p;PreApam2.html

cheers helmut

This watch was recently being offered for sale as a gen 5218/201A but it is a Franken.

Yes, this highlights the difference in the thicker crown, thick crownguard (same as current series) and case, particularly the case lugs.

Interestingly the earlier rep cases were closer to the preVendome in that they had the more rounded lugs and higher, squarer corners. Don't forget that the preV cases hadn't threaded lugs but had a 2-screw set-up.

If I get the dial sorted I will use my first rep case (005) with the lugs drilled, plain sapphire crystal, 2.1mm Palp crown and a gen H series CG. I've got all the bits ready except for the dial and that's why Davidsen's inaccurate dial is driving me nuts.

Mine came from 'Watchinger', who had these posted on Paneristi, but I don't have any contact details now.

I have one of these 44mm openers and can recommend it. I'll look back through my records to see if I can check where it came from.

The existence of 'L' dial 036s has been a matter of speculation for some time but AFAIK the only know examples are 'T' dials. It is otherwise true that 'L' dials appeared during the B series but as this is a limited edition of 200 units only it would seem odd that there would be more than one batch of dials.

EDIT: It seems that we both hit the button at the same time and at least we are saying the same thing.

It seems that Ti reps are history now. I'm certainly holding onto my Ti GST and chrono Avenger.

This would be a total longshot, but if you could ever find a gen dial for the 112E it would be very hard for anyone to call out. It is quite a longshot, but Flav had his 111 parted out and for sale on the bay a couple months ago so these parts do come along every once in awhile. As far as I know all of Jimmy Fu's stuff is truely 1:1 of gen and accepts any PAM parts you find.

A gen 112 dial will be almost impossible to find but a better rep dial may become available as a small batch if it all works out OK. How about a T SWISS T 2A dial with 'tritium' hand lume???

I'm as anal as anyone here but I'm not sure that I have ever met anyone in normal everyday life who has ever even heard of Panerai so the chances of being 'called out' on a normal rep are slim, at least where I live. Maybe if you live in Hollywood / Beverly Hills you should keep your hands in your pockets during daylight hours.

[quote name='Sweattdogg' date='Jan 18 2008, 03:57 PM' post='388036'

............... To be honest I really don't like DSN's 112 too much................

Beautiful. I have one of the 1861 Speedy Pros too, but with a solid caseback. However I think that the 861 (1861) movement looks great and I can't really understand the sneering because of its ETA origin. This is the same 'Lemania' movement which is also in my Heuer Carrera re-issue and they are highly regarded because of the 'same' movement.

Buy the 112E. The difference between Jimmy Fu's parts and the normal rep parts is significant and the fit and finish of Davidsen's frequently isn't even on a par with the regular rep. You list the CG to be Jimmy's also (although you just refer to it as 'crown') and without one of his in my hand I can't deny that it may be. If that's really a gen crystal and hands then the package is well priced in my opinion. Personally I would rather get a B, C or D series solid back and an unaltered Swiss 7497 as I prefer the older models but that is just a personal thing, which includes a mistrust of Asian movements generally.

Go for the JF watch - it will always be very desirable within the rep community and would be very difficult to replace. I have only 2 complete JF cases and 3 CGs left now, having used a few for myself and sold a couple of others. I think that I have only enough parts left for my own projects, using a mix of JF and gen parts and I know that things like gen hands are very costly. I got 2 gen preA dials (01 & 03), both tritium dials with matching tritium hands and these cost real money. However I know that they will continue to be valuable parts that can be sold to Paneristi all day long. BTW, I was offered a genuine preV white Slytech dial recently at $5000 if anyone is interested???

Angela has just sent me a message to tell me the tracking number (mine is being posted today) and that she has seen it and that it is correct. She admitted that she has been having problems and that's why she is geting them sent to her to inspect first. Fingers crossed it will be correct. I already have an 'old school' one with the correct HE position and the best crown guards that I've ever seen but it is getting a bit tired looking with scratches on the bezel insert. However, it has a bracelet with pins so I will only keep whichever one I like best.

Absolutely superb. As soon as I get my Lello datewheel my 027 is going to The Zigmeister for exactly the same treatment together with a Jimmy Fu CG. Then it will join my 029 which has already had the same full works. IMO these ETA 2892 & 2893 PAM models represent the absolute best of the reps when they have been modded this way.

1 x YM for me.

Thanks.

Good to see you back Kostas. Looking forward to seeing your new straps - that tan leather looks good.

Are you sure lello's EU printer will print Panerai's name AND logo on a dial? If so, that's great!

................. Just don't want to see this one go the way of the

Santos 100 Dial project...

I don't think that we will have any problem with the printing side of things.......that seems to be OK.

I don't want to see this disappearing either. I have put a lot of effort into this and have even bought a preA dial so that I have an actual dial with the correct preV / preA engraving as a reference. Therefore I certainly won't forget about this project but it may take a considerable time to sort out. I have been using a local engraving facility with a 'CNC' type machine to try to get the base dials right. However, so far thay have not been up to scratch. The most frustrating thing is that the overall finish of Davidsen's machined dial looks really good but the accuracy isn't there while my problem has been the reverse.

While is certainly want to get a good 5218/201A dial I think that we should also be interested in the preA T-SWISS-T dials which use the same engraved base. We already have the correct style crown guards etc to complete these watches and the dial printing is the same as the A to G series watches with the T SWISS T or L SWISS L altered to T-SWISS-T. If Davidsen would only sort out the 6 and 9 he could sell me a bunch of bare brass dials immediately.

Guys,

it isn't drawings, or graphic files that are the problem. In DSN case - it's the dial makers.

We need to somehow make sure they get it right, which is the biggest challenge of them all.

Pamman, enzo, ari etc...they all have awesome 99.9% 1:1 drawings, but until dial makers pull some extra effort in creating a 1:1 rep dial from the drawing, we're stuck with substandard and mediocre results.

Sorry for the rant...I though this was obvious...

cheers,

babola

EDIT: ...or nicely ask Lello to see if he can pull it off on the dial side as well...

OK, lets do this.

I have talked to Lello about the printing side and that looks to be a runner. After all if his printer can get the numbers accurately lined up on a skinny datewheel then getting a simple Panerai dial printed properly will be a 'penalty kick'. So, don't be too concerned about the printing. If only Davidsen would get the engraving accurate then I don't care how badly his printing is carried out as, providing I can buy a dozen dials from him, I would just strip them and get then finished properly. However the engraving isn't looking too good.

The big question.......

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY CONTACT FOR GETTING ENGRAVING CARRIED OUT??? We are talking reasonably simple shapes at a fairly large size but the engraver needs to listen and understand that he shouldn't interpret anything, just copy the quirky lobsided shapes that the 'strange man' wants.....no improvements or smoothing out the curves etc. Can anyone suggest a CNC engraver? I have accurate 1:1 scans of the correct dial and loads of high resolution artwork but just need someone who can engarve simple shapes on brass. Doesn't sound too much but I haven't had any luck locally.