PAMman

I am not a big fan of sandwich dials in the 44mm historic range simply because I prefer the 'painted' dials. I certainly wouldn't consider a rep sandwich dial because of the levels of inaccuracy. Additionally they all have display backs to show off inaccurate and crudely finished movements that are either Asian copies or Asian modified 6497 movements. The only sandwich dial that I have ever owned is a first generation rep 127 from River, with the best case, sapphire dial and the best rep dial that I've ever seen. It has an unmodified Swiss 6497. I have considered buying a gen E or F series 111 and swapping the movements and then fitting the 111 with a rep B series caseback. Then I would have 2 very accurate frankens - a 001B and a 127, and the whole thing would be 100% reversible again.

The genuine GST Aquatimer is a super watch and I don't imagine it will ever be repped properly, which is a real pity because with a Swiss ETA it could be another SOSF in terms of accuracy and reliability. Unfortunately there seemed to be a view on the rep forum that the genuine was only available in Ti and the rep was critised for being SS and thus inaccurate, but this wasn't true. My friend has a gen SS version and I really admire it. So much nicer and more exclusive than a Sub.

DSN's 'preV' crowns with matching tubes are very good - not quite OEM thickness but otherwise excellent quality. His casebacks are thin and 'tinny' but he does have a wider variety of solid backs which is a help. His hands are......well like rep Panerai hands.

You could get a ship-load of hands, crowns and crystals, plus a few casebacks. Oh I wouldn't mind one of those yellow / orange dials either, but that's about it for me. I wouldn't buy a watch off him in a fit - I've got enough grief in my life already.

I don't disagree but people seem motivated to buy his dial anyway, so it was just a suggestion.

I know - I have bought one of them as well because there is nothing better available, JUST YET!!! The reason that I bought one, despite the flaws, is that I know from past experience that his future, 'new, improved, upgraded dial' will probably be much worse.

If only he had been willing to get the engraving correct your approach would have been mine too. It's just not worth it with the engraving flaws that his have.

S, that really does look fantastic. The CG really does set it off - it makes all the difference. When you get the new 2-screw setup it will be ready for THE dial.

The thread's more than 4 months old so I suspect that the photos are down off the host site. Due to the age of the post it must be pre DSN's latest 201A dial.

I've read it Jay.. although there is no mentioning of 000 or 005

Do anyone thinks it is crazy to do the swap?

No, I don't think that it's crazy to swap. I have a gen 'long arrow' 005 and a spare Jimmy Fu case and I've considered the same PVD move. I also have a genuine crown and a gen F series CG which is correct for the 195 so I could create an accurate 195, sans the caseback.

As far as accuracy for rep 000 or 005 parts - I consider the 000 dial to be better than the standard rep 005 bacause the logo is correct. However the logo style caseback is fairly accurate but the H0016/1000 is not correct for either the 005 or the 000. It should be Hxxx/800 for the 000 or Hxxxx/1200 for the 005. Davidsen's 005 dial is terrible - the font's wrong and the logo is grossly oversized, so on balance try to find a rep 000 dial and the matching caseback. Start looking soon as the 000 is out of production and becoming another grail rep.

The current batch of SMP reps seem to have crystals which are not of a uniform thickness across their width. Some of the earlier reps had crystals similar to the gen, without this optical effect. AFAIK, genuine crystals won't fit all reps so you may be better trying to source a generic sapphire crystal, of the correct size, from a material house such as Cousins in UK.

Well you would have to have a dial printer or send it to someone who does...

So, if you are going to have the dial stripped, repainted and reprinted what has been DSN's contribution??? A bare, brass dial with engraved markers of the wrong shape and wrong thickness. Excellent, well done Davidsen.

I disagree on the Fiddy case and crystal. I just got my DSN 217 and the case is EXACTLY the same as the 0117 case that I have on my non DSN Fiddy and the DSN crystal has too much distortion. Here is a shot of my DSN 217 with my non DSN 127, from any angle the cases are identical, the case back is the same 0117 caseback and the increased distortion is visible in the 217 if you compare the 12 and the 6 on both watches.

DSN's 127 case and crystal is identical to my 127 with sapphire crystal which I bought from River, but River's has an excellent dial with the fonts the correct colour, rather than the grey that DSN uses. However I agree that these cases seems to be the best out there. I'm not knocking this case, just pointing out that they weren't exclusive to DSN and other dealers had them too, at least at that time.

so this case version is no longer produced?

I honestly don't know. There seems to be a range of different sources for the components that are used to assemble our reps so possibly they are all currently available but a different source is a keener price at present. Capitalism seems to have overrun the socialist ideals, but then what's new?

Ain't that the truth, FGD!

Maybe some day DSN will get his Pre-V dial engraving sorted and have some dials made with the T-Swiss-T.

Maybe...

Yeah, or maybe someone else will?????

I have a major interest in Panerai and this led me to the rep community. I have now got a collection of both gens and highly modded reps and I have a bunch of IWC too. Like others I am dubious of Asian powered chronos and I agree that the standard Ingy is a must. It is so close to the gen in terms of accuracy and quality of build & finish. However I would add the GST Ti to the list and get it fitted with a Swiss ETA 7750 - mine has the ETA and a genuine dial. A good 3717 is another excellent candidate for modding but can be hit and miss in terms of quality as standard. Also the 3717 case seems to pick up marks easier than most other SS cases. There has been some discussion about the apparent softness of the SS in the 3717 and I would have to agree that there seems to be some substance to that concern. Get the Ingy for sure and the GST Ti while you still can.

BTW, I'm not a big Breitling fan at all as I consider them to be too 'blingy' but the SOSF is a must. It has the same accuracy and quality as the IWC Ingy - a gen that you can take anywhere.

Lello, I have a 2892 A2 Power Reserve DW to exchange. Please add my name to the list.

so standard rep case that is. Does anyone know if the CG needs to be polished before bead blasting/PVD'ing (its brushed on reg rep case) ?

The best case for a 009 or 195 is a Jimmy Fu if you can find one. There are variety of rep cases out there so try to get one with the longer lugs and more curved profile that slopes down at the corners. Polish the CG first before beadblasting so that the case and CG end up the same - most of the smaller CGs on standard rep cases are polished anyhow.

@ peepshow - Thanks for the comparison shot. This shows how much more accurate the regular rep is in comparison to DSN's ugly duckling, which unfortunately can't be turned into a swan.

here is the result. gen on the right. you be the judge.

Yes, just what we knew all along - the logo's too big and bold, the LUMINOR PANERAI text isn't bold enough, the 6 & 9 are the wrong shape and the engraved markers are too fat. I agree that it is so frustrating because he asked for feedback and had such a great response, but in the end he just wouldn't try.

is the caseback correct?

It is DSN's dial.

The T SWISS T 'sausage' dial is correct for the 9A and early 9B while the OP6500 caseback is correct for the preA9, so strictly speaking the caseback isn't correct.

As far as I can see the dial isn't DSN's - it looks like a standard rep base dial, relumed with the Ls changed to Ts. The reluming has probably resulted in the 6 and 9 becoming more closed than they originaly were. No doubt Si (FGD) can confirm.

The Ti crowns on Ebay were handwind fitting and could be PVD'd along with the case. However the regular rep tube is much too small for that crown which had external 'O' rings on the stem.

I dunno... He's done some things pretty well...

Apparently, this dial is a DSN or at least of the same originating source that he uses. I picked this up from a source that was not DSN, and I had no idea what the provenance was exactly (a few of my more PAM literate friends were unsure as well). After posting on the forum, there was mixed consensus and no clear answers until someone with the same dial in their DSN PAM10 posted a pic of their watch

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...mp;#entry437860

I don't believe he offers this dial any longer... Odd that the ones that are done right are discontinued or limited in volume...

I agree absolutely - that 010 / 114 dial was his finest hour. However you will find that it was collaboration with a member of this board that made it what it was and for some perverse reason it

fishgodeep, do you mind sharing the source of the case?

I have one as well and it came on my 005 from Eddie a couple of years ago. It has the correct 'squarer' side profile with high corners and more 'slabby' sides, short, rounded stubby lugs etc and is a dead ringer for the 5218/201A. These also had the perfect 5218/201A caseback with the same serial number as Mr Yellow's genuine preV logo. I always have suspected that his gen was used to create a 1:1 copy because these cases are so exact, apart from using the single lug screw of the later cases.

The 6497-1 actually beats at 18000 bph which is 5 ticks per second, the 6497-2 beats at 21600 which is 6 ticks per second while most quartz tick only once per second.

May I comment that even the most perfect H-series CG won

PAM, I'm 99% sure that the pics posted in the OP are DSN's engraved dial. 6 and 9 are still off, and I won't even get started on the different fonts used for "Luminor" and "Panerai", 'cause it just doesn't make a lick of sense to me. However, I agree, the thickness of the engraving looks good.

The thickness of the 'engraving' DOES look good. It's 100% spot-on. That alone makes me think that it's the earlier sandwich because his engraved preV version is too thick. There's 201A and 203A pics on the board to compare.

With DSN it's like playing a one-arm-bandit slot machine - he just never gets all the ducks in a row. He is an infuriating b*ll*cks. He prints the LUMINOR correctly just to prove that he can, then picks another, wholly incorrect font for PANERAI. The bloody man is perverse.

Same here. Several questions and no answer

Seems to be the strong silent type.

PAMMan - All very well said and I agree wholeheartedly - only find some of his parts useful - but I do like this phrase a lot.....must note that one for future use!!!

OOOPS, I think we may have hijacked a thread here......sorry.

I should have copyrighted that phrase before I exposed to rep scoundrels. Did you compare a cartel rep to the 201A in the 'Risti link? Just add the proper screws and you're there.