PAMman

I have a collection of predominantly genuine watches, all bought used but mint / near mint condition at as low a price as I can. These include 2 Panerai (005 & 116), 4 Omega (black SM300, Speedy Pro, 'RAF' Dynamic & vintage Seamaster), Tudor chrono, B&R03-94, Zenith, Certina DS3 and others. With the exception of the Zenith and the vintage Seamaster none of these have in-house movements, but they are all currently worth at least as much as I paid because I bought carefully and have looked after them. I know that I could recoup all my outlay and likely make a modest profit overall. For example I bought an unworn, 2 month old Speedy Pro for

Your PAM is pretty cool, but is it just me or does the "Panerai" logotype look a bit weird around the "E"? Where did you get that dial?

That's the regular painted 002/112 dial and yes the PANERAI seems to divide into PAN E RAI, but the gen also does that, poosibly less so but definitely the same effect. I have a gen 116 which is similar.

Excellent. Wear it in good health.

My bet is quartz.

Yeah, judging by the sub-dial placement it has to be.

You'll get an 861/1861 in that price range reasonably easily if you err towards the 2k end :-)

Unfortunately you've got no chance of a 321 unless you change the $ into

1 ETA for me too.

As Pug said if you want the 'classic' moon watch get the Speedmaster Professional 3570.50 with solid case back and hesalite ctrystal. The change from 861 to 1861 involved adding an extra jewel. As far as anyone can conclusively prove an 861 has not been on the moon everything points to the watches used by Apollo were 321 calibres.

However the 861 was re-tested by NASA in the early 70s. For more info on the Speedmaster google Chuck Maddox or try speedmaster-mission.net.

You can pick up a modern Speedy Pro on the bay for a reasonable price, especially from Japan as there is a high turn over of watches there.

Happy hunting!

Fully agree.

There is no reason to deliberate between the 861 and 1861 so the choice really is between the older 321 and the 861/1861, and that will come down to price and condition v history. I was able to buy a 'new' classic 1861 Moonwatch with solid back and Hesalite crystal on ebay for exactly 57% of the current retail price. Mine was 2 months old with all boxes & papers and the protective seals in place. As far as I can tell it was unworn, so it demonstrates that there are bargains out there.

Personally I wouldn't go for the reduced size auto. I don't think that it's any coincidence that these can be bought cheaply as I don't consider that they deliver the 'Moonwatch experience'. Buy a proper Moonwatch the way I bought mine and you will be certain to have made a good investment.

The Swiss incablock, used in the higher grade Swiss movements looks different to this so I suspect that it's an Asian shock protection system. Also the balance wheel has the flared spokes of the Asian high beat movement and, to me anyway, the balance wheel seems to be the smaller 21,600 type. My opinion is that it may be 100% non-Swiss, but then we must remember that all Panerai-style movements, including all based on Swiss, will contain a significant level of non-Swiss or Asian parts. Which is best? A Swiss movement heavily modified with non-original parts or a purpose-built Asian movement? I don't know the answer because my interest lies with the earlier, solid caseback models and all mine have 100% unaltered Swiss (mostly higher grade CdG decorated) movements.

Just to confirm that The Zigmeister has fitted these for me without reporting any problems. I don't know what method he uses but it works. On the other hand DSN makes a sprung crown for the handwind models and supplies these with their own wider tube. Possibly one his 6497 tubes would fit the gen auto crown??? Don't know but it may be worth trying.

Not 100% correct Rolli - I have fitted 082 into std Ti case , 113 into std SS case and currently this is my best looking 001 with DSN PAM 40 dial in JF case set (On the Left of shot)

All of these fit perfectly without changing the diameter...

The 112 had to be trimmed though...

Best regards

Hi S,

Really lovely collection. Are you using Palp crowns an all of these?

BTW, the latest 201 dials seem to be the correct 34mm size....at least they are the same size as regular rep dials and JF's base dials, unlike a DSN T SWISS T 001 which I also have.

On the plus side, your rep has a very good shaped case around the crown, probably the best that I've seen. I have had a number of SMP reps and they have all been different in detail. I had one with a grey/blue insert positioned on the bezel the same way as yours but it couldn't be repositioned properly as the the clicks wouldn't line up any of the points exactly at 12.

BTW, if you have a spare crystal I would be interested in buying it.

I love my white dial SOSF too. It's one of the best reps ever and I have mine on either a gen leather or gen rubber strap.

Many of our dealers are indicating that Ti reps will soon not be available anymore. however there are a number of 'Homage' builders who continue to offer an excellent looking case with a better crown than we seem to have been getting. These are available on a number of forums TZ, TZ-UK etc. For example;

http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43381

Any thoughts?

Excellent Rolli. I also will be in touch very soon to get a case PVD'd.

Nice one. There are a few odd dials floating about, including a preA1 dial without any T-SWISS-T ......just nothing, similar to the preV dials. There was one of these assembled in PVD case and sold as a 'prototype' preA4 for approx $25K a few years ago, but it seems that the watch has a dodgy provinence. It is included in a picture of a group of six that should be archived somewhere on Paneristi. The group has 3 PVDs and the watch in question is the centre of the lower row with the photographers thumb appearing into the bottom of the picture.

Do you have any info on this watch or dial?

In my experience all of the crystals (JF's, DSN's, gens & reps) are the same size. You need a crystal gasket in JF's because his bezel is a 1:1 copy of the gen which also uses a similar gasket. However, I'm sure that a crystal could be cemented into place if DSN's crystal / gasket doesn't fit but I would really pursue the 'proper' route first.

It sounds like you have the DSN crystal / gasket kit but haven't got the JF bezel, otherwise you could easily check if it all fits. If you intend to get a bezel later then I would advise that you buy a bezel complete with JF crystal. I know that they are not sapphire but they must be similar to Seiko 'Hardlex' because I have used one without any signs of scratches after a year of normal use. If it does scratch then you could swap it for the DSN.

I've heard that davidsen dials are slightly smaller then other dealers, is that true? Will one of his dials fit a Jimmy Fu case ok?

Davidsen's dials are BIGGER not smaller than normal rep / gen. IMO, his PAM10 dial was the best dial that he produced, thanks to input from one of the members here but I don't think it's available any more. If you have one then it may be worth reducing it to fit a JF case as Davidsen's cases are not accurate.

In my experience all of his cases have the crown/stem too high and his latest preV has it ridiculously high. I have one of his 036 Ti watches and it is even noticable to touch when I'm winding the watch, as there is too little of the crown on the under side of the CG.

On the older, 21,000 bpm Asian movement all the hand sizes are the same as the Swiss ETA 7750. However, the 28,800 Asian movement has a smaller center seconds hand and larger hands on all 3 subdials when compared to the ETA.

Thanks.

What about the second hand?

I THINK that the second hand from the 6497 will fit a ETA 7750 & 21,000 A7750, but is too small for the Asian 7750 28,800.

Yeah, normal enough. Don't panic.

But the question still stands - can you fit an auto movement in a Jimmy fu case? From what I am hearing - you might be able to - but it will require a different deeper caseback?

Yes, you can fit an auto movement into one of Jimmy's cases but you cannot use his caseback. You will need an auto type caseback. Which auto are you building?

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the big tell-tale on the SMP. Correct it's a gen but it is the crownguards that are the give away. The shape of the gen can't be properly replicated due to the thicker movement / lower crown position in the rep. The gen has the crown almost touching the underside of the bezel so the case disappears completly at the crown position. In the rep the crown is lower (further away from the bezel) and the case tapers back to meet the crown, thus giving the case a different profile. Modifying the CGs by filing out the proper V shape will result in a flat section of case at the base of the crown so the rep case can't really be modified to replicate the gen. I have a gen black SMP and an 'old school' Bond rep so I can compare the differences.

Good ideas and easy to do. I too have had some experience of the genuine Ingy and IMO the rep is as close as reps get in terms of finish and accuracy, apart from the datewheel, AR etc. The rep Ingy really FEELS the same as the genuine IWC because the case & bracelet have been replicated in an awesome way.

ummmm.....I don't........please elaborate. I just bought a Davidsen Ti.

If you have just bought a Davidsen Ti could you please post a few pics of the CG with the lever both open and closed? I am particularly interested in the shape and finish of the DSN Ti crownguard as many of them were very poorly finished and totally the wrong shape. His CG is different from the regular reps - the regular 036 Ti had the CG pin upside-down.

Thanks Lanikai, thats definitely new news to me

Another question on EMS, I don't have much experience on this but maybe others here can answer this. If a package of counterfeit goods was being shipped, in our case watches, would it be possible for the EMS workers or the customs people to steal the package, and the seller not being able to do anything at all? Basically I was given a tracking number starting with EB, I checked for the first time today after 7 days the package was supposedly shipped. Nothing showed up on either the EMS website or Parcelforce website (who deliver EMS packages in the UK). It has always taken a maximum of 7 days for a package shipped from China via EMS to reach here in the UK, so I was expecting the package to arrive today.

Should a message show up upon tracking the package on either EMS or Parcelforce websites if the package was seized by Chinese customs? I guess nothing would come up if it indeed was stolen by EMS workers or customs workers...

In my experience all EMS packages get a new Parcleforce number once they are scanned at Heathrow. You can catch the new number if you are constantly following the tracking on Parcelforce Worldwide, using the EMS number. The first record at Heathrow will actually have the Parcelforce number on the results screen but it's easy to miss. After that the EMS number will draw a blank and the first you will know is the actual delivery.

Interestingly, the only time I have known of an Asian or US package going through customs is via EMS - it happens every time but mostly doesn't raise any charges. Regular Airmail seems to avoid customs altogether.