lysis

005 and 111h....

take a look

details to follow

The PAM 005 is gen. Take a look at the letter "A" and the angle of Panerai logo.

Someone PM me when there are 25 firm commitments. Thanks!

I'm in for four.

It's a lot easier (and cheaper) to submit international Western Union payments from a physical location -- like most supermarkets and some gas station chains. There's also more scrutiny when it's done on-line, especially if you're using a credit card to fund the transaction.

Last month, I spent thirty minutes on-line and on the phone trying to get a payment sent to Singapore for a purchase from another member. I even had to answer questions derived from my credit report! Needless to say, the transaction was denied. I jumped into the car, traveled a 1/4 of a mile to a local grocery store, filled out a short form, and had the payment sent out without a second glance from the cashier. That took all of 8 minutes and it was $20 cheaper than the on-line price quoted.

It might have been I didnt get the greatest look at it, knew it was a panerai for sure tho

I tivoed it and I'm going through it now (pausing heavily). It looks like a 63 on OEM rubber,

since I saw a shot of a sweeping second hand.

The best shot of it occurs just before the show goes to the live audience part.

I thought it was a 196. It looked like a chrono.

I just wish to share my experience as a devoted PAM fan.

In a recent past I got two crystals single-side AR coated, and my conclusion was:

Since now I'll go for double-side AR coating only.

Yes, even if it is inaccurate on PAMs.

The difference in effect between single-side and double-side AR coat is overwhelming. With single-side AR, forget to see the incredible apparent missing the crystal that we can see on double-side AR pics. Just, you get single reflections instead of double reflections. To me, that completely frustrates any good of (and need for) AR.

The only real benefit from single-side AR is that it cuts out reflections from the dial -- i.e., from date and cyclops.

BTW, it's months now that I am hunting for any official reference about the genuine AR coat on PAM being on the inside only, and I never found any single one. I own all official Panerai catalogues since 2002, and they always spell 'Anti-reflective coating' only. All pictures of gens on the net look as they are double-sided AR coated.

I am beginning to believe that this assumed thing of PAM single-side AR is just an urban legend.

Anyone got any evidence?

SS,

I have one gen PAM with single sided AR coating and multiple gens (from other manufacturers) with double AR coatings. I also live near a large Panerai authorized dealer. As far as I can see, the AR on Panerais is either single sided or none at all, depending on model. I suggest you visit an authorized dealer to confirm this, if you live near one or happen to be in a city with one while on vacation.

For those of you looking to acquire an item from one of our Chinese "collectors"

China is essentially shut down from October 1st through October 7th to celebrate the Chinese Communist revolution. "National Day" essentially lasts a week and for us, that means no mail service out of China.

(Edit -- Although the National Day "Golden Week" is from October 1st to October 7th, as other have stated here, EMS

service is shut down only from October 1st to October 3rd)

It is pretty much all the same AR on the better Swiss Unitas models. Davidson just has the best crystal to put it on. This makes Davidson's AR look better. You have to pay for all the other mods on a Davidson bringing most up to $400 or more shipped.

The AR is all the somewhat fake looking blue or purple. If you want real thick AR have one of the custom guys on the board do it for you and you don't have to buy a bunch of other mods with it. They really lay it on double sided and thick. Some are even talking about doing the real genuine Panerai yellow/clear AR very soon!

Hmm... "Real Panerai AR" isn't always yellow; although a number of models made from 2000-2003 have a yellow coating. A lot of current models (I and J series) have blue AR and there are some made now that still don't have AR. Of note, "Real Panerai AR" is also single, not double sided.

Here's an interesting link to Pietro Germano's website that shows him making leather straps. Germano is considered one of

the masters of making pre-V replica Panerais -- his California dial replicas used to command thousands before he stopped making them.

http://www.germano.de/index.php?option=com...=3&Itemid=5

pm sent

My new name is Mr. Wait

according to josh's website, it'll be available in two weeks.

If someone wants a big friggin' pilot watch, they need to buy my gen Fortis Flieger chrono!

I can't believe how similar that dial is to my Poljot aviator (I know it's a two register model).

A few quick questions -- for those of you out there that own both a 104 and 111:

1. How much thicker is the case of 104 versus the 111?

2. Is it much heavier than the 111?

Thanks.

If you're talking about authentic "decorated" Panerai movements, there aren't any reps out there with them.

However, as others here have pointed out, you can buy a ETA "Unitas" 6947 movement and put it in a rep or if you like the Daylight series chronographs, you can still buy reps with ETA 7753 movements. Those are fairly expensive, however.

Hi, may I know are there any reps for the PAM 292 Radiomir Black Seal with the little submarine picture at the 6 o'clock position? Thanks.

The real watch hasn't even come out yet - not until December 2007 or January 2008.

Interestingly enough, it's already sold out throughout the world. Ceramic bezels are hot, hot, hot.

Some background is needed to fill in the blanks...

Asian movements overall lack general servicing, normally they are dry or flooded with oil and grease, especially common on A7750 models, automatic models seem for the most part to be quite good.

ETA movements vary from pristine new, to very old and tired. Why? Simple, the ETA movements are all SURPLUS, including the ones from Ofrei, or any other supply house. Ofrei does not carry any factory movements, they all come from supply houses, the only factory ones are in sealed blister packs, everything else, is surplus. Which means condition varies, a lot...

I have bought new (?) movements from Ofrei, only to have them so old and gummed up that the pivots broke off when I tried to disassemble it.

There is no way to know what your getting, except by taking the movement apart and looking at it. Short of a poorly running movement, which tells you it needs servicing, your guess is as good as anyone else's as to what you have in your watch.

The only guarantee you have that your particular movement is clean and correctly serviced, is to send it to a watchmaker...unless you purchase new ETA sealed blister pack movements, I can get these, but prices are double the surplus ones, a factory 6497 is over $200 each...

Now you know as much as I do.

RG

Thanks, The Zigmeister.

Not sure about the earings, but there are traces of lipstick...

The old 21.6K 7750 was prone to being dirty, the newer version, of which I have seen a few, are very clean as far as crud goes.

The new 7750's however are not oiled for the most part, and the mainspring barrels tend to be filled with some oilly crud which leaks everywhere inside the movement.

If they took the effort it took to fancy up the bridges, and serviced the movement, then we would have progress...

RG

The Zigmeister,

Are most movements found in reps "dirty" -- including the stock real ETA movements in some of the more expensive

reps?

And on that note, if you bought a sourced out Unitas or Valjoux movement from a supply house like Ofrei, would you still need to send it through the ultrasonic cleaner and re-lube it before placing it in a watch?

For completeness sake... The answer is yes.

Therefore the only reps to really interest me are the handwinds and chronos. I hate 7750s because I find them so ubiquitous, so I'm certainly not going to settle for an 8850. Therefore there are only two movements left: the Venus chrono and the Unitas - both of which I own.

Actually, you're missing some additional chrono movements. Other ubiquitous, "non-in-house" movements out there

include the Lemania 5100 and the Poljot 3133/Valjoux 7733. Although I've never seen a rep with a 5100, I have a Radiomir chrono with a Poljot 3133.

Besides the increase in prices, the other "new" thing with reps is the increase in the number of replicas with AR coating straight out of the box.

Those RXW Panerai "homages" have been around for a while. The eBay sellers are usually dropshippers out of Hong Kong or Singapore.

You're right -- most of them are basic factory reps, just missing the word "Panerai" on them. I do have one that came out

of Hong Kong that is identical to one of my Davidsen reps, however, with the exception of the lack of AR on the crystal. Same crown, crown guard, case, etc.

As before...

1. 1 black 7753 datewheel

2. 1 white 7753 datewheel

3. 1 7750 datewheel

Nah. Was thinking more of getting a relume job.

So there are other giveaways... Skinny date font. No AR. I think I'd take your advice. Leave it alone for now.

Unfortunately, the biggest giveaway is the recessed datewheel, which is usually the easy tell for most Panerai chronograph reps. In addition, the 187 has tritium, not luminova, markers.

IF I recall correctly the asia 7750 used in the new 092 arktos is a 'modified' 7750, I am wondering if it would be very difficult to purchase a swiss 7750 and replace the asian one -- anyone have any idea how complicated the modification is... i presume it is to allow for the single seconds sub-dial at 9:00.

Thanks.

It's pretty complicated, but can be done (it's going to be expensive).

Take a look at The Zigmeister's article (i.e. the "The Zigmeister 6500") on Replica Watch Guide.

Pretty blatant PAM 124 / 171 fake on the world's largest fleamarket. Type in 180158887917 in the search field. Can't believe it's already over $900.