Timelord

“Rolex sells every watch they make”

so they say?  

the trick I have seen with boutiques (of whatever kind )to rise prices and sell at those prices is; in creating an artificial shortage as to entice potential buyers sitting on the fence to swing towards queuing up and paying big £££€€€$$$$ for something they would still be be in two minds about!is a plus plus for the seller!
 

Make it hard to get and make it look rare, is a strong psychological power game!  Similar to how the fashion industries work but slightly different!

Has anyone ever questioned who is the real power broker behind the replica industry?  Is it a group of pensioners/enthusiasts running a hobby farm from their back yard sheds? Really? Some of the equipment to make these high quality elaborate replicas can be as expensive as those used. by genuine production  factories themselves! Who in their right mind would have that sort of capital.to risk running & losing millions only to be caught and shut down to lose it all!!  Certainly not me or any entrepreneur that has better and safer ways to invest their nest eggs!! Then the  giveaway to this (-if  we were to consider this a conspiracy theory) is why are these replicas never made to be exactly 1:1? Do you think it is because they are too stupid or not skilled enough to replicate them 1:1 with the modern technology that exists if they can get this far doing a great job? Or are they purposely made that way so that they can be purposely distinguished by those that know them well like most of us here and the owner who probably owns the factory that makes both the genuine and the replicas?? Food for thought!

The noobmariner F520117 in my opinion was one of the closest replicas ever made to the 16610 for the money you paid!  Yet the crystal sizes are remarkably different by a mm, I believe this was done on purpose, not by lack of skill or design?  As long as you can fool the masses, then ever  Tom and Harry is happy!😃 

let’s not forget that fake items are also good advertising for the genuine brand if the genuine brand markets for two different leagues of consumers!

Yes, then Rolex does sell every watch they make!

the above is my opinion and my opinion only!

nuff said!

As others have already said " Wear it well and enjoy" 

In particular, a watch measures time where time measures and marks memories!!  The most appropriate tool for this purpose!!  Sadly, not a two way time machine!!!  

It is in particularly nice to hear from previously active members and to know they are well even if having moved on!!!  Thanks for keeping in touch and don't forget to drop us another line when possible!

That is so impressive!!!  We hear about a lot of car restorations and other items sitting in places for decades but something like this is so unique!!!   

A broken watch once used as a toy and to survive to run again in almost 70 years is something one would not even expect on Discovery channel!!  The value of that watch cannot be measured in monetary value, but far more beyond that.  A life experience!!!  Thanks for sharing!!! 

9 hours ago, freddy333 said:

 but because of the decorated [censored] & uncommon balance wheel, I do not think it is ETA.

you may be right about not eta but I have seen this decoration on their eta clones and even the Seagull movements,  I have also never seen a snap in stud hair spring mounting to the balance [censored] other than eta or clones. 

Even the Chinese cheapies use a stud screw to mount the hair spring to the [censored] in most of the cheap movements I have seen.  For this reason I am not so much of a fan of the  eta 28XX -2 movements !!  The older 28XX were  better quality and of course a slightly different movement!! 

The only other possibility is that someone with very high skills and elaborate equipment may have tailor made it for something different.

I have never seen it either until this post!!  

Sorry that I cannot be of any help!! Thanks for sharing !!👍

18 hours ago, freddy333 said:

 

Click me

 
Thanks!  I recall the topic in the link which is great asset to help restore these types of crowns!

I believe my problem is different as I have also tried different stem and crown combinations from genuine flawless eta movements! I have also tried to manually wind it with a screw driver by turning the screw above the barrel ratchet wheel with same result!   It is Tissot day date which has a good firm crown and stem!
 

 I would never use a stem from a generic movement as it would not work! 
 

i thought  the slip was in the mainspring as I can feel the lack of tension there!  Mystery remains!

Greetings fellow members.

Hope all is well at your end of the woods? 

I am pulling my last strands of hair out ( actually I have no hair left LOL!!) to figure out what is happening with my 2836-2 not keeping power or failing to wind after a few turns?

I recently serviced it and prior to this everything else was ok but only losing time to stop.  All seemed to be ok upon assembly ( all wheels spinning freely.,etc.etc), but somehow prior to assembling the automatic assembly, I try to manually wind the mechanism, but after a few turns of the winding crown, it slips and does not keep tension,

At first I thought it was the mainspring, so to eliminate this possibility, I pulled a complete mainspring with barrel out of an identical perfectly working mechanism  and had the same results.  So, ruled out the mainspring issue!!!

I then changed the ratchet wheel thinking that there was something worn with one of the teeth or maybe it was slipping in the square section where screw threads down, but again the same issue!!!

What next to try?   I then considered that there might have been an issue with the intermediate wheel of the train gears slipping.  Disassembled the motion works and checked it out and looked ok?  

Seems like it has a mind of its own.  Anyone ever had a similar experience, please chime in.  Welcome any comments (including insults🤥), as long as it helps me find some direction to a solution.  Easy option is to discard it but then I have learnt nothing!!!

Many thanks in advance!!!

On 7/22/2022 at 2:00 AM, automatico said:

 

Then there are F520117 'noobmariners' 

 

agree 100%!   I have owned  a 16610 replica form just about every know source but the F520117 takes the prize in my opinion!  When I sold them all off this one was an easy decision to keep!  Interestingly it was priced in the same league as the other not so accurate basic eta replicas! I could not justify paying 5 times more for a Fong case with further mods when this was on offer! 

The only criticism I have with these F520117 is with the crystal and bezel on a technical issue and not accuracy representation!

Drop one on the floor and if the crystal breaks, it’s ready for the disposal bin as no mineral crystal will fit due to the weird size!

If you want to remove bezel, again you run the risk of it becoming disposal!  Maybe it was designed like this on purpose as they were so affordable to replace!  Who knows? If these flaws were addressed prior to production, then it would have been the 99% best 16610!  No replica can be perfect, but if it had a retaining ring for the correct size Crystal, then I would pay Fong prices for it as most other £5000 brand watches are really no better and it is all in the mind! 

Good question! 

if you have a Flexible budget, it could still be within reach!  
 

As you know the problems we are all facing In this hobby is the availability of quality parts!  The 16610 is no longer the hot thing in town as it has been replaced by that goofy new tuna can style ceramic insert model 116610 - the in thing amongst peoples with more cash than $#*#$.  Finding a close to 1:1 spec is going to be very difficult unless you can trace down a pre owned item that no longer buzzes on the owner!  
 

if I really wanted to spend the money, I would buy a star supply case and as many parts that come with the case at star supply as this case is designed as an aftermarket replacement  for the 16610 which should fit the genuine 3135 movement!  
 

if you have plenty of change left' you may probably still find a pre owned 3135 with some luck, but if this is not a necessity to your build  I would buy a genuine eta 2824 which should fit this case, but the real problem is getting the right case ring which was once made by TC ( who seems to be either retired from the watch hobby or for good) to accomodate the eta movement in a genuine spec case!   This ring is a must, but again finding one is going to be challenging unless someone else has also cloned this ring!  I have  been looking for one since TC went West or East!

The other avenue you have is to be on the hound side to buy a pre owned one in the sale Section of this forum!  Sorry that this isn’t much help but it is what I would do if I really really wanted a great piece that runs  circles  over the cheap quartz copies

good luck!!

PM me if it is still on offer!

Wow!!!!!

I am lost for words for all the work you  put into this response for me and for possibly even countless others all over the globe ,wondering about the same thing!  I feel very privileged to be here!   This is so Automatico style response!!  Don’t want to overlook any other valuable members here, this is so eloquent, detailed and helpful!  Can only say a big thank you 😊 !!

21 hours ago, Jimmythree said:

.Some of the movements were converted to Day-Date and sold as Prez models 

Where they sold as full presidential watches in fake 18k gold cases or sold as original day date movements coming from presidential watches?

12 hours ago, Jimmythree said:

 maybe a builder might look for a good genuine 162xx case for $300/$400

 

Let me know who has "a good" one at those prices???  😲  I think at today's prices, we might need to add in an extra "0" in the units column digit!!  

Was searching through some of the old posts on cleaning and oils, which ended up across this interesting one from last year 

It mentions  that Molykote DX is recommended as a cheaper alternative to the blue high friction grease (9501 ) which I also noticed in  the official eta oiling charts on other components as well!  My understanding from the molykote information sheet is that it is similar to the lithium grease!  I know watchmakers do not like either lithium grease nor molykote DX as it is most likely difficult to clean properly!

I am just confused that if this is the case, how do parts which are lubricated with either molykote DX or lithium grease properly cleaned?  
anyone had any issues?
seems like an anomaly!  

Finally the third wheel arrived and it was assessment time to check what was happening!  

mounted each gear separately first to make sure they were all ok and that bridge was sitting properly!  Then I removed bridge and reassembled all the gears together! 

took extra precaution to make sure train bridge was placed properly over all pivots!  Not my first movement I worked on successfully!  Yep all spun freely until I noticed that there was some side shake in top pivot of great wheel (intermediate wheel) - what seemed a slight wear and I then knew this was not going to work!  Out of curiosity, after fully assembling it and a few gentle of winds, pallet did not flick!  So before damaging this new third wheel, I knew that the culprit was the gear near mainspring!  I noticed with the two previous third wheels that it felt slipping near mainspring before those pivots went to their demise!  Who knows what else would crop up, so it is time to retire it and keep it for spares, before the whole thing ends up costing me the price of 2 new movements!  This movement looks very tired and will move on ! Thought I owed all an update!    Thanks to all for all your input as it was a great learning experience!!

3 hours ago, ppmjones said:

My 1998 quartz Seamaster needs a new movement? Other than Omega are there any others available?

 

Had the battery replaced by Timpson's in UK, it was 'clunking' showing low battery, they returned it DEAD!

 

Even paid £350 (?) to have it 'serviced' they then quoted £1000+ to repair the watch I bought new for $1000

 

Would appreciate any advice, as I'd like to keep wearing it?

Firstly, it would have been nice for you to introduce yourself as a new member!  

This site is predominantly for those with an interest  in the replica world of timepieces, but that isn’t to say that we do not discuss genuine timepieces either (as replicas are  based upon them)!  We welcome without discrimination!
 

Do you have a model number for this omega model as it appears to be the 41mm omega reference 2541.80 according to your description date?   If this is correct???? , the this uses the omega caliber 1538 which is based on the eta 255.461!  I remember replacing one recently for a work colleague! It was the same model used in the Bond movie “Golden Eye”. They would sell online new for Approx 200 American dollars all depending on what part of the planet you reside!  If you are savvy with  basic watch repairs, you may do. It yourself and save heaps!!

Good luck and BTW Welcome to this wonderful fraternity of watch lovers! 

On 6/19/2022 at 9:01 PM, horologist said:

 
don’t despair as I recently built one for a friend of the family but he wanted it with a sapphire crystal!     I was going to use a Perspex crystal, but I then considered that hardly anyone would really notice and most people would not even know what a Rolex is even if they have heard or know about the name!  He wanted a genuine eta2824 which  I bought sealed in the packet!  It was a very straight forward assemble and came out to be quite a quality piece!  It even passed water resistance to some 30m! Can’t justify spending 30x-40x the price for what they go for, when the next available substitute is quite good!

 

I built one using raffles parts including the bracelet and at the time got one from eBay with drilled lug holes from eBay!  Check this one out!  

eBay item number: 353520740302

 

Raffles has nice dials which would complement the above case and also a bracelet with logo!  It would not be a difficult build if the sapphire crystal doesn’t bother you!  Think about it!  

 

 

 

 

 

I think OP is seeking something more like the project Jimmythree has posted!  That is another subject altogether with far more challenges!  Yet if someone doesn’t mind how accurate the build is, I do like your suggestion too as these are getting harder to find!  

I was recently approached by a third generation acquaintance of the family who has always known me for my passion for timepieces.  He asked me why there is a shortage of Rolex merchandise from our local authorized dealers!  I gave him my short  simple answer " to create an artificial shortage so that it can justify any price increases and entice those to want them"  Well that was my interpretation of how I see the trend with everything else as well.!!!  (As a disclaimer I will call it my opinion and only my opinion)  Make it hard to get and it becomes a rarity that will attract potential buyers to want it and therefore rise both; a demand and a price increase!   Simple!!!  Basic high school economics with the law of demand and supply!! Sure enough there are other agendas behind this shortage, but that was my take on it!!  His family are quite wealthy and I helped him buy his first 16610 back in 1997 from the AD who I knew well at the time as I got him quite a good deal for it.  Not so the case now with the new owners and of course the agendas!!!  

He asked me how my submariner was going.  I replied which one?  "The one I purchased from the same AD or the one I assembled myself.  I no longer have the one I got from the AD but I have this one" ( the noobmariner I built from sources kindly directed to me by members of this forum).   He looked at it and all he said was" Did it end up cheaper to build it than to buy from the AD?"  I replied "Yes at the time it was"  Then I realized that he had not worked out that it was a replica as he does speak his mind and so I kept quiet about it. Had he asked if it was the real deal,  I would have been straight out open about it and divulged it was a replica!!.   Now he owns the real McCoy and by now you would have expected for him to have noticed that there are subtle differences between them.  

This leads to my rationale about WHY WOULD I WANT TO lock away so much money into an item for where there is a close substitute and then risk;  losing it,  getting damaged, spending an arm and a leg to maintain it from a cartel type business having a monopoly on parts, as independent watchmakers can no longer get parts etc, etc. 

Now, most of us here do or probably own a genuine Rolex (perhaps more than one), but would rather prefer to keep them as investments in their safety deposit box, (occasionally using them on special occasions) but instead have a beater that closely resembles what they have -  minus the risks.  Lets be honest, they will never be tick for tack representatives of each other, but for the price one pays and gets, it way justifies this move!!!!  I don't expect that my noobmariner is a 1:1 clone of the authentic product, but enjoy it for what it represents and for what it is!!!  Period!!! .  I have my noobmariner since 2008 and have treated it like any other genuine watch giving me just as much satisfaction minus the cost and risks of the real deal. As for QC, I am not bothered as I have bought high end products that have been through many QC checks and still give me grief from something that may have been overlooked anyway.  Myth in my opinion!!!  I didn't see any issues with my noobmariner.  It hasn't fallen apart, it hasn't crumbled, neither lost anything from it, has survived water resistance ( with replacement of quality seals from time to time) and even better - has no case corrosion when I consider the environments I exposed it to.  I wasn't worried, it is a beater but has shown to be a true test against all punishment!!

I guess that is why we are here as we can see and appreciate a cutting edge that the average bear doesn't see.!!  I have met and conversed with members here from all over the world from all walks of life and have never had a similar pleasurable experience in any other fraternity.!!! The thrill of building and modifying something to represent something that it is not, is an art in it's own right which very few can do and appreciate!!   

 I cannot remember who said it, but in an interview with a world famous mathematical physicist, a comment was made that 8 out of 10 people cannot put 2 and 2 together!!!.  What he meant was that if you present the facts on the left and the same facts disguised on the right, most would not see that they are the same.!!!! That is an alarming figure, especially with what has happened lately in most of the world trends.   My interpretation of what makes us unique here and enables us to look outside the square!!!  

(post dedicated in memory of my first watch enthusiast friend "Frank Ricci" who passed away 20 years ago today!!! )

Great advice above!
 

Have you tried sending JMB a message!  He has modified some wonderful cases to fit these eta explorer dials!  My last projection 2017 was a case I purchased from him and a dial from raffles!  Came out pretty good! I am sure you will achieve  something that will give you satisfaction!  The trend now is these popular ceramic tuna can style subs and the 39mm explorer, so it looks like the odds are in your favour!  Good luck!

You are the third person I have heard say this in the past week !  You have done well to reach out to us here, as I have found this place not just about replica watches or watches for that matter , but most importantly a large wonderful fraternity who are there to also listen and offer guidance when in times of difficulties!  
 

I found this place a great comfort when I experienced two deaths in my family and most members both past and present, gave me a lot from just a simple word and even an inspiration to a new door for surviving some of my most difficult times
 

As you know these times are very trying with everything that has happened and everyone I speak to feels Just like I do too!, In addition to life’s cruel blows that override any happinesses we all go through,  I have noticed that most people that are here also drown their sorrows which is why we find this hobby a distraction and a soother to move onto another day!  Your have a nice collection which you should enjoy and rotate and trade off any for something different if you have the need for something that gives you a different distraction. After all life is a distraction from reality!  You may also extend to seek assistance from local sources and when you think you have hit rock bottom ( most of us would correlate to this) there is always another day which is the faith that keeps us going!  Hang in there!, thinking of you!

On 6/1/2022 at 2:17 AM, Chuck19 said:

I have found that (with the train of wheels, at least), gen parts will work in a clone 2824, but don't try to put clone parts in a gen mvmnt...that way leads to madness.

 

A while back, I had a gold gen Bulova branded 2824-2, and after cleaning and rebuilding, could not get it to wind, no matter what I did with or replaced in the keyless works. Teeth were slipping, and it wasn't the mn sprng brl. After letting it stew for a few months, I finally realized I had been using a clone stem, which somehow got swapped.

 

...even though it looks IDENTICAL to a gen ETA stem. Minisclue tolerances exist for reasons.

 

thank you for your input!  I am still waiting for my part to arrive and still cannot say if it will work or not!

As much as the 28xx series are simpler than their predecessors, the downside is that for anyone who is using this movement as their first  attempt to service as a learning experience, these trivial anomalies can really break one’s confidence in further  watchmaking!  My worst experience  was with a 2452 as it is way a more complicated than the 2836 especially regarding the calendar works which is such a headache!  I still don t touch them ! Don’t see any clear tutorials on YouTube with this one!

As Horologist has also brilliantly explained of his issue, true- it can lead to madness!   As he said, “ is it me or is it the parts?”  I kind of suspect that I may also need to have changed the seconds wheel  as I a not sure if this is genuine or clone! 
 

The other thing I have noticed is that if you drop a part on the floor and up you try to find it using a magnet, this can also cause problems with assembly! Why?  A few years ago I dropped a pallet fork whilst I was assembling a freshly serviced movement and found it with my magnet after having searched for days!  The gear train was gliding flawlessly  and it I also recoiled  giving me confidence that it would run! Upon installing the pallet forks it did not flick from side to side as expected after a few winds of the mainspring!  It was driving me bonkers!  I then gave up and took it into a watchmaker fully assembled in non running order!  He right away demagnetised it and it began to run!  When not  formally trained, it is so easy to overlook the simplest trivialities that one does not pick up on and can either make or break continuing with tinkering!  

3 hours ago, Ronin said:

So to clarify you have a 16610 SEL (No Lug Hole case?)

 

Yes. Exactly!    It was the one that takes the eta 2836-2 movement

3 hours ago, Ronin said:

Yuki cases, from my experience, take "Genuine" bracelet parts. 

 
I think the Yuki cheaper eta cases were different from those $900 ones that took on the genuine movement!  I am not so sure now!  I think someone mentioned here many moons ago that the bracelet from the noob FS20117 would also fit, but am not sure!    This is the risk on the rep game where nothing is to spec!

thanks for your input

When Yuki stocked case kits, I bought the last 16610 case kit for the eta 2836 movement which came with everything but the bracelet.  I recall he did not stock bracelets for this particular kit, so I used a NATO nylon strap.  

However, I have quite a few bracelets for the 16610 model from varying sources including a Raffles bracelet, but none of them fit as the lug holes do not line up with the SEL springbar cavities.  I know you can use bent spring bars (banana spring bars), but even then, there is a limit to how far you can bend them before the bracelet will fall off the case at the touch of anything.  I had this very experience with bending a couple of spring bars to get them right into their spot.  Upon wearing the watch, the spring bar gave way while I stepped into my car when my watch gently touched the steering wheel falling on the car floor, hence saving the watch😲.  If it hit a tile floor I would not be posting this thread!!!

Has anyone ever built one of these Yuki kits and successfully also put on a bracelet?  if so, I would appreciate which bracelet you used and where to source them?  The other option is to file the SEL parts to make them fit but this might be a hit or a miss as both sides need to be done.

I notice that Silix cases also have their own fit  bracelets and so do others like the Noobmariner F520117 where no other bracelet fits this Noob but that designed for this watch.

Not the end of the world, but it is annoying.  Any feed back much appreciated with thanks!!! 

I have only just read your news and am shell-shocked to say the least!!!. 

My thoughts with my deepest sympathy are with you and your family in these difficult times of bereavement,!!.  There are no words I can express to dampen your grief, but can only wish you and loved ones the strength and  courage to get through this painful period that nobody is immune from. 

Whenever I saw a post from Nanuq,  I always remember the images he posted of "the midnight sun in Alaska", his land rover and his precious red Seadwelller!!.  

I would like to also thank you for finding the strength to inform us, as there is never any proper closure to the sudden silence of any correspondences from this virtual world we are all part of in one way or another!! 

RIP to our Dear Friend and Fellow member!!!

11 hours ago, jmb said:

I have used lacquer thinner.  Seems to dry fast with no residue I can see but keep it away from the pallet forks as I have had it dissolve the glue that the stones are attached with!

lacquer thinner is similar to isopropyl alcohol as it is used in French polishing and therefore dissolves the lacquer that is used to fuse the pallet stones and also the roller jewel on the balance staff of the hair spring!   Two very important and expensive parts that are the most fragile in this liquid!!

I was hoping that one of these type of  alcohols would have been a good substitute for benzene based solvents!  Sadly not the case because of those two delicate parts!  
 

just the other day, I found a post from some site that uses ammonia based liquid to clean but am not sure if it was for movement parts!  I wonder what the environmental watchmakers would use apart from detergent and distilled water?  I haven’t been able to hand clean any movement parts due to some family members allergic to the smallest exposure to these chemicals and living in a small dwelling on the 8th floor adds to the complication! 

On 4/25/2022 at 5:06 AM, Isochronous said:

I’m very close to paying as much for this Frank’n Day-Date, case and movement only, as I paid for a complete all gen Day-Date 12 years ago.

 

 

very close?  No, not by any stretch of the imagination!   A house next door to me sold after 8 years of sale by more than two thirds of what the buyers paid then!  That is over £1.7 million in profit!  Back then   I was contemplating on getting a £ 300000 loan to buy it myself  and I took a deep breath and said to myself better  to see a psychologist than a lending institution!  Am I thinking the same?   No, I now know looking back that I am dumbest person  in the world!

In 2014 I also saw a fully snickered NOS 118238 presidential on eBay with the whole 9 yards of packaging being sold for USD10,000 as unwanted gift or near offer!  I was thinking of flying to Los Angelos just to buy it as seller did not want offer-overseas shipping!  To get it at that price, I would  have given up drinking gin for life which I later had to anyway because of ailing health!  
 

should you feel bad? Cheer up, you are still ahead of me and good luck with  your build!  I am sure you will forget the chase once your son says to you with the best smileys could   imagine “Thank you dad”!!