Profherm

That's exactly my point of view. 1. There are things you notice on first sight if you have ever seen a gen. 2. Then there are thing you only see in direct comparison or with expert knowledge. 3. There are things every watchmaker notices if he puts the watch on a timegrapher or looks at the movement. 4. There are watches which can even fool a watchmaker. 5. The holy grail are watches that can not distinguished from a gen without checking the records of the manufacturer. My desired level is 2. and 4.. But that makes the difference from 40$ to 4.000$. If you don't care about 4. you can do the job for 400$.

Never glue a dial to the movement. Better attach new feed to the dial at the new position. @powermax: The old Swatch Movements, I think before 1998 were fully made of metal.

I still don't get it. It makes no sense for me to convert a movement running at the wrong frequency to a movement still running on a (another) wrong frequency. The early Rolex 15xx movements like the 1530 run at 18.000Vph, the later ones (eg.1570) at 19.800. Of course the ETA 2824 with its 28.800Vph ticks quite a bit faster. But to convert it with a 2846 running at 21.600Vph only brings it to another wrong frequency. And it would be much easier an cheaper to use a 2840/42 from an ols Swatch, which is a 2824 already running at 21.600 without needing conversion. By the way, the Felso 4007 running at 18.000Vph would match the beat rate of a Rolex 1530, so for me that would be the only considerable choice.

Please explain why you do this.

Tomhorn, I am absolutely with you. My question was more why people spend thousands of $ for gen parts to improve their reps if good and much cheaper rep parts do the job too and are undistinguishable for 99.9% of all people.

Don't ge me wrong. It's not about tricking people, it's about getting the highest possible approval for the build quality, build quality in every detail, inside and outside the case.

Ok, you all mention some very good points which I will have to think over. Building a submariner tool watch to use it for swimming and diving without fear for loss and damage sounds very reasonable to me. Trying to build the best rep in all means that would fool any specialist could be really challenging. Just think about sending a rep to Rolex in Geneva and then getting it back with a dacument telling that is a gen. I think this is every high end builders dream. Keeping the unreplacable and invaluable gens in the safe and wearing reps to preserve the gens sounds reasonable too in a certain way. Personally I would not do so, I would wear my valuble gens carefully only on Sundays to enjoy the feeling of luxury and wear more affordable watches on weekdays but no reps. And I also understand that some people are happy if they do not have to spend much money on a rep as long as it looks good enough. That leads to the question what is good enough which can only be answered individually. But when it comes to spending large amounts of money for gen parts to improve frankens I do not really understand the reasons to do so. What is the goal? Thank you for your opinions and answers and I would appreciate if we could keep on with this imo very interesting discussion.

Hello. I do not want to disturb other threads, but I realize that I think different compared to other users here. From my point of view, a really good rep should not be distinguishable from a gen at first sight. Many people here focus very much on verly little details, like fonts used on the dial, position and spacing of charakters, exact shape of crystal, crown, etc.. A watch that has been serviced by a "free" watchmaker, who is not allowed to buy gen parts from rolex, will get more and more aftermarket replacement parts during its life. Every time the watch goes to be serviced, most likely some parts will have to be replaced. That could lead to a "wrong" crystal, a "wrong" crown and so on. The original dial could be changed to a Paul Newman because of an owners demand or the old gen one has to much patina on it, the stretchy, scratched and worn out bracelet could have been replaced by a new one - stainless steel with logo, but from the aftermarket. The case probably will have been repolished and maybe now has a slightly altered shape due to the removing of dents or scratches when polishing. From my point of view, this gen watch having been repaired and serviced several times with aftermarket parts, is still a gen. When you open the case back you will see a gen Rolex 727 movement, not only with the engravings, but also with right balance [censored], the red guilded wheels and the freesprung Balance with the microstella screws, the breguet hairspring and so on. Even if you do not open the case back and only put the watch on a timegrapher, you would see that it is ticking at 21.600Vph, unlike a V72 ticking at 18.000. This watch has a value far above any rep (I think so). So I focus to these details on my build. My target is a watch that you could show to a watchmaker and he would not be able to tell if it's gen or not. Which he could easily when seeing a Asia Venus 75, a Valjoux 7753 or a regular V72, even with all Rolex engravings on top. Isn't this more important than taking care to small details on the outside of the watch? Same about Submariner builds with ETA or worse movements... What do you think? Regards Profherm

Nicely done! I only miss the view under the hood on then engine.

Thanks. You have PM.

Did the engravings: Letters are to narrow and the position is not perfect, but I can't get closer to the lugs with my angraving tool. Here is the backside of the dial. Bought it described as repainted gen. What do you think? I don't care if it's a repainted gen or rep. But to read this advertising [censored] "repainted with swiss ink" is always funny. ;-)

Thank you for your help. You got PM. So I'll engrave "Registered Design". But I'm still not sure about the serial number I'll use. I was thinking about a number with a special meaning for me, like a birthday or something like this. I have attached a picture of the engraving on my gen Datejust to show the poor engravings. Look at the Rs from. The L is not rectangular, the E from "ROLEX" ist tilted,...

It took me some time to make progress, but here are some pictures of the case and the movement. And some Questions. Today I started to prepare the engraving between the lugs. I have pictures of a gen 6263, a gen 6265 and some watches from Ebay. And then I had a look on my gen 16014 to get supersharp and crisp pictures of the engraving. The outcome was complete confusion. Maybe you can help to overcome it. - I do not know whether to engrave "ORIG ROLEX DESIGN" or "REGISTERED DESIGN" or nothing at all above the Reference number. Saw all of them. What should I use? - "STAINLESS STEEL" seems to be mandatory for a steel watch. But which serial number to choose? I am thinking about using a number beginning with 44, telling that it's a replaced case. Do the other 5 digits of the 7 digit serial number follow known rules or can they be chosen randomly? How do other builders here choose the S/N they use? When analysing the font used by rolex and copying the numbers and letters I recognized the poor Quality of the engravings on the gens. The characters seem to dance a little bit and are not well aligned. Looks like it was manually engraved by a careless worker. I think I will copy this imperfection. Other worries: A detail making me sick ist the wrong shock absorber. And I still haven't found an affordable source for a 6263 bezel...

The case should fit the movement, simple as that. So the seller or manufacturer of the case should be able to tell you for which kind of movement it was designed. The critical parameter ist the height of the stem. If it is misaligned by just 0.2mm, you won't be able to fit the movement properly. Of course you could work with shims or open the case on the lathe, but that would be visible at first sight and everybody who has ever seen a gen would see that there is something wrong. Why don't you go for the Yuki 3135 instead of an ETA? And if you go for ETA, why do you want to build a watch and not just buy one? And then alter it to meet your personal taste concerning dial etc.?

I was thinking about building a 16520 myself. But when I read how much money you have in your project... Close to what you have to pay for a gen if you get it cheap. 5.5k plus bracelet, wow. And even with the rotor, every watchmaker can tell without even having to open the case, that it's not a gen. Just put it on the timegrapher and read the VpH. 36.000 with the El Primero vs. 28.800 with the 4030. Altering an El Primero to a 4030 is really difficult, because Rolex altered the main plate of the movement completely. So for me the price and effort would be to high for the resulting watch. But on the other hand... Love your watch.

Hello. I have already been reading here for a while. With the help of the admin I managed to overcome my technical issues with the registration process and so I'm a happy member now. My hobby is watchmaking, not only putting parts together. Making or repairing watch parts is more fun for me than just buying them and putting them into place. And I am more interested in technical details of a watch than in looks, model, rareness and other stuff, a collector would be interested in. I will start in the Rolex Section, because right now I am working on a 6263 build. We do have quite strict rules here in Germany concerning the use of trademarks, brand names, registered design and so on. So doing builds with parts sourced from all over the world might put oneself into jail with one leg or cost a fortune for lawyers and fines once a brand gets aware of ones activities. So I prefer not to use my real name. Best regards "Profherm"

Hello. I have already been reading here for a while. With the help of the admin I managed to overcome my technical issues with the registration process and so I'm a happy member now. My hobby is watchmaking, not only putting parts together and I am more interested in technical details of a watch than in looks, model, rareness and other stuff, a collector would be interested in. That for a short introduction of mine. Now to topic: When I saw a 6263 I immediately fell in love with it and wanted to have one. A gen is not affordable for me. Sine I'm into watchmaking, a 7753 or venus build or even less would not do it. Even a regular V72 would not make me happy because of the wrong shock absorber, balance, balance [censored], number of vibrations per hour and all the other details concerning the movement. Right now I am working on a conversion of a V72 and collect the other parts to build a watch. Got a cheap case from an ebay seller, already with marked inside of the case back. Also got dial and hands from ebay and a bracelet from yuki. But one important part is still missing: a black 6263 bezel. All affordeable offers on ebay seem to have disappeared. I asked watchny and they told me they don't habe black ones any more. VW and J&W are horribly expensive, Gens are even more expensive. I asked some dealers trading reps if they have a spare part but they deny. Any hints where I can get an affordeable one? Thanks and regards