seank1

Sorry to see you go Edge. I'm thinking seriously thinking about leaving myself. I will have a tough time saying goodbye because I really like Tim. Well the good thing is we'll all see you here.

Sean K

given all the re-hashing of the b&r situation in this thread, i thought i would share what i think the following is a pretty reasonable theory as to what happened with the b&r. if you've had enough with all the discussion of the b&r, feel free to skip my theory and read my other conclusions below, which i feel like are more relevant to the primary discussion at hand.

-----------begin conspiracy theory-----------

the 1:1 b&r watch was a joint project between andrew and josh. in reading his posts about the way that project ended up going, my guess is that in an effort to make a 1:1 copy of the original, andrew and josh racked up some serious costs, and in order to even have a fighting chance of making a (small) profit on this watch, they had to cut costs where possible (ie. finding what they felt was an acceptable cheap movement to put in the watch).

knowing their costs and how many watches they had available, it would have been clear what they would have to charge per watch to recoup their costs. so they set the price of the watch accordingly. up until this point, i believe there is nothing wrong with this story. if a dealer commissions a project (or multiple dealers for that matter), they should be free to charge whatever they want for it. this is not the behavior of a cartel (which i discuss a little more later).

however, where (according to my theory) things went wrong is when josh and trusty probably realized that they would have a hard time selling enough of the 1:1 b&r watches at these high prices if people knew it had an inexpensive (cheap?) asian movement inside, so they called it an ETA 2892 instead (cleverly omitting swiss in front of ETA). not surprisingly, they didn't bother taking pictures of the movement. oh, and why not throw superlumed dial in the description -- that should help too -- everyone loves watches with superlume. the rest is history.

-----------end conspiracy theory-----------

given the huge response to this thread, it is clear that everyone is concerned about this whole situation, with particular concern about dealers knowingly misrepresenting their products to fuel sales of said product. i think this is really at the heart of everyone's concern. the only way i see our concerns being relieved is by the dealers demonstrating better behavior in the future, so personally i don't see how banning them is going help anything.

i would like to think that based upon what happened with the 1:1 b&r misrepresentation, no one has purchased this watch since it was exposed. this is the most effective way to effect change in the dealers' behavior -- if you misrepresent items, we simply will not buy them. for this reason, i think crystalcranium's suggestion of the dealer scams suggestion is a good one. this subforum could serve as a place to help the community recognize the misrepresentations as they occur, at which point the best way to ensure they don't happen again would be if no one purchased that particular item.

inevitably, some people will ultimately make a judgement that despite the misrepresentations, the watch is still worth the stated price and buy the item (as evidenced by jomama's purchase of the seamaster aqua terra). at least in this case individuals would have full knowledge of what is actually being sold, and RWG will have served its purpose of protecting people from scams.

deltatahoe

(conspiracy theorist)

ps, here are my thoughts re: potential cartel issues (similar underlying theme to my conclusion above):

if people truly believe and are concerned that we are dealing with a cartel on certain items (the breitling steelfish superocean being the primary watch in question), and prices on said items are being artificially inflated, then the only way we will see these actions change (ie. stop the price fixing) would be if everyone boycotts the purchase of these items at the artificially inflated prices.

such a boycott could be compared to unions and strikes: the union (RWG community) only has power to the extent it is able to speak as one voice, which requires everyone to stick together despite the suffering that might entail. to the extent people are willing to accept the current situation, it only weakens the case for the remainder of the community.

pss, in reading the tone of andrew's responses (see his post here), i think andrew really doesn't feel like he is in the wrong with regard to the b&r situation. whether he is right about thinking so is another matter.

I won't boycott buying the watches I'll boycott buying from them. PT has got the Steelfish and EVo in stock as do a few others. I'll buy from him at get this "a premium" just to be told the truth. Please don't bring up the gold topic. I think PT did a good job of explaining himself. "His word is as good as gold"

Sean K

... repeatedly.

Then maybe I'll be banned next Pugs.

Sean K

And there is rumour of another person selling these watches. Rumour has it that he is getting six in Monday. Same person sold one to Bignasty a week ago

This watch I believe

Rumor has it that two of those are mine to behold.

Sean K

But those red hands are very Hai Karate from your gran.

GodI thought I was the only one who new about that cologne. My Father used to say that Bowling Green smelled like Hai Karate and he gave me the history. I suppose you've splashed a bit on in your time Pugs?

Sean K

I wish you'd have bought the blue one! I wanted blue but your photos are making me want the white one now

As always beautiful pictures. I just got the Chrono EVO from PT. To bad it was for a friend what a piece. These two Breits are some of the best reps I've seen.

Sean K

I've got nine with the the Breitling Superfish and Chrono EVO on the way.

Where has Tanfo been anyway? His collection is very impressive.

Sean K

The gray area is that these TZ watch guys thumb their noses at the reps but cream there pants if someone copys a gen but doesn't put Panerai on the dial. You can defend all you want and in a legal sense you're correct but the bottom line is its still a replica. How would buying one of Davidsen's unbranded dial watches with a stock movement be any different.

Sean K

Bigshooter and admin at RWI is making custom watch boxes. Here is a link check them out they are very nice.

http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17615

Sean K

I'm posting what the hell. Hello all.

Sean K

Seriously fellas the minute By-Tor finds this thread he will smote all by showing his horrible rep pics. Wait you will roll in laughter.

Sean K

Whats up wit you Dawg? Hello Joe. Its an RWI blowout. They've been talking about upgrades for awhile now, I'm sure all is well.

Sean K

Ditto. Nice watches just plagued with the usual.

Sean K

This is starting to heat up quite nicely.

Sean K

you are in luck bud,look here(have a great strap included already)

http://www.rwg.cc/members/Fs-Swiss-Swan-Ne...ion-t20822.html

from what ive heard he's a great guy. hope this helps cheers!

Or he could of had yours Bro. Oh no thats right I've got that one. Whats up Reg? Angus has a fully modded version, Davidsen's has the most accurate dial and doesn't have the recessed pin problem. But for the money Geo's is a great value.

Sean K

Thanks By-Tor for another great review. I just got my Ultimate fixed. The Pearl popped off. It is truly an amazing piece. I dwarfs the sub. BTW you can swap out the bezel because my watch smith did it for me. I turned my black bezel into a pumpkin.

Sean K

I'm waiting for mine from Andrew as well. My GST Ti needs a nice bed.

Sean

replica-watch.info/forum/

There you go.

Sean K

Why not try the search function?

Sean K

@ Pugs thanks I know you debunk some of the other b.s. myths that go around on the forums, you favorite being that the U.S. never landed on the moon. Anyway its much appreciated.

Sean K

It looks O.K. from the picture but like Pugs said Its kind of difficult to tell. Can you give some more info on the piece.

Sean K

It looks O.K. from the picture but like Pugs said Its kind of difficult to tell. Can you give some more info on the piece.

Sean K

I have seen this. Its pretty freaky. I've tried to go on Snopes.com to debunk this but I couldn' find anything. Hey Pugs could you look this up and try to pull this apart, I know theres something fishy going on.

Sean K

$60 would be way too high, someone a few months back was selling the 21j daytonas that had a much better case for 45.

I don't think its supposed to be PVD I think its ceramic. Oh God, its the Bastard Son of the unholy union of the Chanel J12 and a rep Daytona. Yuck.

Sean K

I just bought a gen 7750 for $208USD which is a direct drop in for The Zigmeister. That way I have only spent slightly more than the service cost for the Asian 7750 with no oil...The ETA's are fine out of the box for 4-5 years. You may want to consider doing that too. If the datewheels don't swap (The Zigmeister and I are hoping they do) those can be sourced at Jules Borel for around $14USD each for Day and Date. The font is the same. Food for thought if you intend to keep the watch a lifetime - I'm sure you will want to when you get it. Ask Pug if you don't take my word for it...he is

Rob

Sean K