hanski

On 9/11/2018 at 1:21 PM, Nanuq said:

Fantastic result. Well done!

Thank you! Appreciate the compliment!!! 

4 hours ago, MRWOZZA70 said:

A 5513 dial from the other seller Richview8i8... you be the judge! My experience was that I didn't receive the dial photographed for the listing.

 

 

 

 

 

Looks good! How is the matte black paint job? I like the finish and texture of the Vietnam ones but not so much the Yuki ones. 

For $40 less, I'm super happy with the caucacon dial. 

My lume work (neutral, charged with lights on, and charged with lights off). I like my lume working (glowing) and relatively flat but with a slight pillow form  

So I received the 1680 Red Dial from “caucacon” on eBay. 

$99 + $6 shipping. Arrived within 3 days. Transaction is protected by eBay if something went awry. 

Not to worry, the dial is high quality. On par with Ruby’s Watch dials. 

Nice matte texture, precise lume, 1570 dial feet, good DW window, singer stamp on back, 26.5mm diameter, and nice logo/printing. 

I would highly recommend this seller! I mean , for us CONUS folks, this is a steal being local, fast shipping, and half off (or more) other Vietnam dials  

Sure, I clipped the feet and soldered new ones for ETA 2824-2 movement in my Cartel build. Then shaved off .5mm from the diameter to fit the Cartel case. And finally relumed to match my hand set. 

But here are the pictures out of the box: 

4 minutes ago, alligoat said:

Some of these dials aren't bad. But you can be sure that they are all replica dials, there's nothing refinished about them. I don't know if they come from Vietnam or somewhere else over east (China?).

All you can do is look at them closely and if you like them, take a chance. I picked up one a year or so ago and thought it was very nice- now I'm just trying to figure out how to fit it in an MBW case.

The seller is also selling a 1002 with a rep dial in it- making it an Explorer. 

So I got responses from both sellers. The first, richview8i8, said the dials were "fair" quality. In looking at them compared with the analysis at DRSD and what I can get with Ruby's Watch for a similar price, it doesn't seem worth it. 

On the other hand, caucacon, said the dials were from Vietnam - best quality. For $99, it seems like a reasonable risk to buy one. The layout looks decent enough as a Mark IV 1680 but at $99 it's a good price for a Vietnamese dial - even a good price for a Yuki dial - all of which is better than a stock Cartel. I will let you all know how the quality is once I get it (if I get it...haha, knock on wood). 

And don't worry - there was never a doubt the dials were rep dials. I was just trying to figure out what quality rep dial they were. 

Has anyone purchased a dial from eBay user “richview8i8”? They have some 1680 dials up for sale at $148 a piece. 

I haven’t picked apart the details of the graphics but I’m curious about the dial/print quality. Upgrade from stock Cartel? Comparable to...? 

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-1680-Submariner-WHITE-LUME-Matte-Black-Refinished-Dial/263894180987?hash=item3d7151a47b:g:nY8AAOSwEyVbfdqh

Also noticed some from “caucacon” for $99. 

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Repainted-Rolex-Dial-for-Rolex-Submariner-1680/323439270682?hash=item4b4e7b9b1a:g:W~EAAOSwHt5bM9gc

Insights appreciated.

Great build! 

I'm adventuring down the road of trying to build one of these too...

Any chance I can impose on you to share some of the specific sources of the parts? Silix case, but which one? You mentioned the bezel was just laying around - any insights on what would be a good base bezel to modify? Anyways, thank you for sharing the build progress - it's very nice. I really appreciate the efforts put in to constructing the two part, extra tall bezel. 

29 minutes ago, mzinski said:

(I noticed it looks off centered in pics - I promise it’s actually centered. I’ll upload a new pic when I have a chance to prove it)

Centered! 

I challenged myself to rework a Cartel, BP Factory 1675 as cheaply as possibly. With that I present to you a Cartel 1675 transformed to 100% Gen, 1:1, AAAA+, Special Quality specs! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Took my own advice and redid the lume and indexes. Re-hand painted the markers with a thinner white paint (50% mineral spirits) and relumed. The lume applied much nicer with a better, thinner, more even plot. 

1 minute ago, Lo' said:

My 2ç on the subject as the proud owner of a few gens and a couple of replicas:

1) Gen is gen. Preservation of worth is obviously much better and, in some cases, your piece value will increase with time.

2) On the other hand building your own watch has got a somewhat romantic flavour. That piece might be the replica of a production model, but it will nonetheless be special because your work, passion, time, attention to detail, study, patience and whatnot will be in there. Some builds have litterally taken years to complete and, during all that time, the owner has gone through countless hours of enjoyment, elation, frustration etc. There's not an ounce of that in the gen you pay and carry away.

3) Often times a gen piece will have its own story, which might not be relevant or worth mentioning in any way, but it will have been loved by someone, passed on, sold, bought, re-sold until it landed on your wrist. Patina does not only come from time.

I could go on and on but the short story is that in my opinion it does not matter whether the piece on your wrist is genuine or a replica, it all boils down to what it represents for you. If you are all for the practical aspects of owning a vintage watch you will be able to resell to, at least, get back what you paid for it go gen you can't get wrong. If like me, you also consider the "hidden value" of something which is unique because you had a part in creating it, gen paradoxically won't be enough to satisfy you.

 

Thanks Lo', I appreciate your sentiments.

1. A gen's worth seems fairly consistent - agreed. I also appreciate the prospect of the precision in a gen compared with the lack thereof in rep parts. 

2. I really relate to the enjoyment of building, modding, tweaking, and servicing my own builds. Sure, they aren't perfect but it sure is fun to push them towards perfection and enjoy the process along the way. I'm also super-enthusiastic about modding the affordable parts to be as good as they can be. I suspect it's a lot like building a Shelby kit vs buying a vintage Shelby - the process of building is very fun. 

3. I like the story of, "I built this." And, actually, my family gets a kick out of it too. They're impressed I'm able to work on movements, build watches, and have them work/look good. My son wants me to build him a watch now - a square one with green, blue, and gold...not sure what that is yet. 

Anyways, I only own affordable vintage gens (Junghans Max Bill, Waltham FSSC-88-W-800, 1940's Wittnauer Military) and I will say that they satisfy the desire to own a piece of history. They were built with design ideology or to commanding specifications. They represent a snapshot in horological history and craft. Would I like to own some of the other snapshots (Blancpain Mil-Spec 1, Tudor 7928, Rolex 5512, etc), yes. Can I afford those? No. I'm trying to sort through the 76100 will scratch some of that itch to own a genuine piece of history (is it significant enough to scratch that itch, I'm not sure) or if simply building an interesting iteration in the evolution of Tudor's is what I'm really looking for. 

Thanks again for the thoughts! 

8 hours ago, alligoat said:

The watch looks nice, but I must mention one thing. Please don't go into Rolex stores showing off your watch- that is one of the caveats on all of the rep forums. The ADs probably aren't going to do anything, but we don't want to call unneeded attention to our hobby. Your first bezel wasn't correct and it was noticed by the AD. I also don't think the insert should be above the bezel- the insert is supposed to snap into the bezel- that's the way it was designed to fit by Rolex. When it sits above the bezel, that means it's been glued in there and everyone  who knows anything about Rolexes knows that's wrong.  

Oh! Yikes! My bad! Didn’t realize that was a rule. Next time, I won’t bring up RWG, show him the site on my phone, and brag about my rep....kidding! 

The first rule of the forum, I don’t talk about the forum. 

As to the bezel/insert - the insert is actually snapped in presently. It was a bear of a fit but it’s in and not coming out to easily. It makes sense if you think about it - if the insert has a slight taper out, creating a wider bottom edge and the bezel tapers inward - you would click in based on the bottom of the insert, not the top. That and from what I’ve observed on VRF, a number of them sit proud. Just one example: 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vintagerolexforum/viewtopic.php?f=207673&t=245169&p=551125&hilit=1675#p551125

Of course I don’t own a genuine 1675 so I’m solely speculating based on images and working on reps - so take it with a grain of salt. 

With a spare 1675 BP (Cartel) Dial I had laying around, I decided to figure out how to upgrade it with a better lume and texture (and used it to practice soldering dial feet). 

My first step was to apply several layers of matte spray to the dial while it had the dial markers still on. I purposely did this so the matte lacquer would create a natural border for the next steps. For the spray, I use Testors brand Matte Spray Lacquer. 

https://i.imgur.com/ulyJzQq.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qIekEWr.jpg

Next, I pull the dial marker s off. It’s a simply task - turn the dial over and push the markers out by their legs with a pin pusher or other small pin tool. As you can see, the lacquer spray created a natural edge to guide repainting the indexes. 

https://i.imgur.com/99t81bH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ajO6zjR.jpg

I then used a Testers Flat White Epoxy paint to repaint the indexes. I used my thin oiler to apply the paint as I would lume. I painted the indexes rather than just luming because the white provides a reflective surface for the lume - basically, the lume is brighter and looks better one a white backdrop. Next time, I would consider cutting the thickness of the paint to make it a bit more “watery” and thin. I think it would help get the edges a bit smoother. 

https://i.imgur.com/axfIrjU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/H8AeQVx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yjDnemq.jpg

Once dried (overnight), I applied a yellow lume, thinly applied as to not interfere with the GMT hand. I also relumed some left over hands to match since I had the lume out anyways. And finally, a few more coats of spray lacquer for good measure. 

Looks pretty decent and good practice - now it just needs a home. 

Thanks for looking! 

So I like to stop in to Rolex stores sporting my reps, just to test the waters. Last week the AD said, “What do you have on there?” I explain it’s a 1675 - he’s impressed. But it isn’t until I take it off and lay it on the counter to try on a Milgauss that he can’t stop glancing/eyeing it. Eventually he says to me, “I wonder if that’s the original bezel.” 

So with that, I dug into researching and reworking my bezel. A few things I’ve noticed: 

- The insert sits proud of the bezel. You should be able to see some of the side edge 

- There is only a thin edge of grooves that are oriented slightly upwards

- From the grooves to the retaining ring, the bezel sharply cuts back in

- The bezel should appear thin and flat

I won’t say this is the rule but simply what I’ve noticed after studying a number of macros on VRF. 

So I took to my WSO bezel made three distinct cuts: 

- I machined the top down at 10 degrees until enough insert showed to make it obvious it was proud of the bezel

- I machined the outer edge at 10 degrees, sloping upwards so it was not perpendicular to the case

- I machined the bottom pretty aggressively at 45 degrees to give it a strong under cut and thin things out

I think the result is rather nice and a vast improvement on the previous iterations of the bezel. 

Oh, and this post is a good excuse to point out the gen 6251 folded link jubilee bracelet. Really enjoy this bracelet over the Cartel jubilee I previously had on there. 

Thanks for looking! 

https://i.imgur.com/iszIFw0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ncDHquC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/02GhOfC.jpg

7 minutes ago, RickFlorida said:

Ah, you and I should talk soon.  Maybe we can help with all of this.   Stay tuned.

Looks like you edited the post - I’m guessing you clicked the pdf I attached. 

19 minutes ago, RickFlorida said:

I still can't believe we are even having to have this discussion.  In the last 2 years my hobby has been making jewelry by designing them in either Zbrush or Matrix Gemvision (Rhino based) and then having my models professionally printed with the latest 3d printing software which is called material jetting.  Material Jetting is so precise that you could 3d print finger prints if you wanted to.

 

For the love of God and all that is mighty, let's create a team of people from this forum including myself and make 3D models of the 5513 case.  Now, I can't cast models into stainless steel, but maybe I can help with the workflow of the whole process of making a 3d model of the midcase which can then be CNC machined, etc.  At the vary least, we could have the midcase designed with just final thread cutting left which people like JMB could advice on.

 

Let's freaking do this people.   Let me give you an example of what can be done with technology.  A friend of mine wanted a treasure coin but didn't want to pay hundreds of dollars for even just a replica.   So I created an exact replica using Zbrush and then casting it in Silver.   For the Love of God.    With 3D scanning, we could high resolution scan an original 5513 mid case.

I would love to join in an contribute my skills where possible. While my last experience with 3D printing was 10-years ago, modeling and scanning intricate parts/pieces is in my wheelhouse. I took a historic, bronze building trim, measured/scanned the object, modeled it in Rhino, 3D printed, used the 3D print in a lost wax bronze casting technique, and came out with new bronze trim. Without a doubt, scanning/measuring a watch case should be no issue. Modeling is also a feasible, albeit time consuming task. 

I agree with this about almost all the parts. For instance, what is so hard about getting a dial correct? There are so many high-resolution, in-depth analysis of the various dials that it should be incredibly easy to produce the artwork and subsequently pad print the dial. If I only knew how to and had access to a pad printer - artwork is not an issue. I would even love to see dials produced with fired enamel - make them both aesthetically and functionally good! 

PagesfromWorkSample.pdf

10 hours ago, Sbybbuser said:

I will go with gen in this case.
With the rep, you will definitely lose money when selling. Anything above USD1000 is a slow mover. Plus, the rule is to sell at a loss.
With gen, i believe that the price will keep increasing. And there is always the feeling of you are wearing gen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks! I should  consider resale - I wasn’t. I kind of hoped I could hold this one for a loooong time. 

I have been thinking about these two statements when I pass the watch on to my son: 

“It a genuine...” 

or

”I built this...” 

I suppose the second statement will need a qualifier, “it’s a replica.” 

I’ve become really interested in the Tudor 76100 Submariner. There’s something about the triangular indexes and a lollipop hour hand that really catches my eye. 

So my question to the group at large, is it worth it in gen or should I build a rep? 

It seems a gen can be found for $4k - $6k, some with diver bracelet, some without. 

On the other hand, I could build a pretty nice rep for $1400: 

- Vietnam case, crystal, case back, bezel, insert, bracelet, and crown

- Yuki dial and Tudor rotor

- Gen ETA 2824-2

- Yuki hands, modified to be lollipop 

I could probably even shave off some cost by using a JKF Snowflake case and case back. 

I’m keen on making sure it’s a good looking watch, durable, reliable, and water resistant. I don’t doubt I could build it to be that way. 

All that said, I waver between gen and rep. I like saving money. But I also like the idea of having a gen if it’s worth the extra money. A gen has the potential of a lifetime of value (and I think the 76100 is an overlooked reference in the Tudor collection). 

Anyways, look forward to your thoughts. 

If you look under your loupe you can see it’s the one connected to the balance spring. 

10 minutes ago, hologramet said:

Actually. JKF Snowflake case has a caseback which I 100% good. All you need is case reshape, lug engraving, case reshape, Vietnam bezel assembly and Athaya crown+tube

I will look into it - I enjoy reshaping cases and assembling watches myself. 

12 minutes ago, hologramet said:

lug engraving

I've been struggling to figure out how to have this done. Can you recommend members/places for this? 

13 minutes ago, hologramet said:

Vietnam bezel assembly

Phong or Jensen? Or someone else? 

I’ve come across this Tudor 76100 from a private seller on another forum for a fair price. I’ve only recently become interested in Tudor’s so my eye for them isn’t great yet. 

I’m seeking opinions on the watch. 

To my eye: 
- Lume looks terrible. I can lume better than this. It’s hard for me to believe it’s factory original tritium. 
- Dial font appears chunky. When I compare with other gen references online the font seems much more crisp on those other dials
- I think I spot rust or tarnish on the rehaute (confirmed with seller, said this ws "normal")
- It appears there is a swirl on the dial. Like someone tried cleaning it but left marks in doing so. 

Look forward to your thoughts. Thanks!! 

6 minutes ago, automatico said:

My guess is you hit the nail on the head.

I have said from day one that the difference between a $50 replica case and a $1500 replica case is a few (maybe more than just a few) hours of reshaping/detaining.  As long as the basics are correct (or can be made correct)...lug hole location, case neck, case back configuration, thread size etc, an expert in detailing with the proper tools can make them 'almost real'.

I agree, Phong is substantially overpriced. I think Jensen is more reasonable. 

I've been pricing out building a Tudor 76100. His 76100 replacement case sells for $650 and includes case (with decent stampings), case back (with proper engravings), tube, crown, bezel assembly, crystal, and insert - supposedly all to gen spec but I haven't handled one to confirm. 

On the flip side, it would cost me about $516 to build that myself but have incorrect case stamping. This would be Cartel 5513 case ($150 for a whole, cheap watch, I haven't been able to find case alone), Yuki case back ($185), WSO bezel assembly and insert ($129), Athaya Crown and Tube ($35), and Clark's tropic 19 ($17). I suppose I could discount something for having leftover Cartel parts and a cheap A2813 movement but that isn't worth much. 

So basically I'm paying him $150 to rework and stamp the case and provide (from what I hear) higher quality parts over what I just listed. 

This tutorial isn't for the faint of heart, it involves butane torches and Rolex dials - oh my! 

If you're anything like me the thought of stickers or glue holding your dial in place gives you the shivers. In my opinion there's not place for dial dots or epoxy on a dial next to a swiss movement. For me it's dial feet and soldered connections all the way. But being the frugal curmudgeon I am I didn't want to spring for a $300+ dial foot soldering machine. So I've been searching for an alternative - how to solder without spending a lot of money or burning a hole in the dial. 

Well, here it is! Tools: 

- Bernzomatic ST500 Butane Micro Torch

- Butane

- Low Melting Point Solder (63% tin, 37% lead, 360 degree F melting pt)

- Flux

- Mini-snippers

- Xacto Blade

- Helping Hands

- Dial holder

- .7mm brass wire

- 2mm drill bit

First I used a printed template to locate the dial feet (check out the technical documents for your particular movement, they typically have the coordinates). I simply printed to scale, placed on the back of the dial, marked the dial feet locations with my Xacto, and moved on. This is a very important point, though. Careful and thoughtful planning goes a long way towards having things in the right spot the first time. 

Next, I created a slightly deeper indent for the dial feet using the 2mm drill bit - basically countersinking ever so slightly. And, again, I used the Xacto blade to score a crosshatch pattern surrounding the center point. (Sorry the picture didn't turn out as well as I hoped but I promise you there is a countersunk center point with crosshatch scored around it)

Next, add a bit of flux to the dial and the piece of brass wire. 

Cut a small piece of the solder and wrap it around the base of the brass wire. 

Carefully position the wire into your center point. Apply some pressure to it so it is firmly in place. 

Enlist the help of your helping hand to hold the brass wire in place. Make sure to position it perpendicular to the dial. 

Time for some fire! Light your butane mini torch and heat the wire first. Heat it about 1" from the dial. Within about 3-5 seconds the flux should start to melt. At this point give the dial a few brief (emphasis, BRIEF) passes with the torch - alternating between the wire and the dial back. You should see the solder gets sucked right up to the wire and against the dial. All said and done this takes about 10, maybe 15 seconds. Let the dial and wire cool down. 

Ooo! You have a nice solder joint holding your new dial foot in place. 

Snip your dial foot to length. You can clean up the solder and wire with you Xacto knife, smoothing and cutting away any excess material you don't want. Just don't cut too much, it is holding the foot in place. 

Oh! And since there was no direct heat applied to the dial via, say, a soldering iron, no burn marks on the front side of the dial! 

I've been practicing on a spare dial I have. I'd recommend doing the same before trying this on some expensive Vietnam dial that only comes with gen dial foot locations (like who can afford a gen movement...ETA all the way!)

Good luck and thanks for looking! 

On 4/20/2012 at 4:42 PM, automatico said:

I measured a 1675 (serial 555xxxx with 1575GMT hack):

 

case thickness at 3 o'clock measuring at outside edge with caliper pushed against inner bezel and caseback...4.6mm

thickness at 9 o'clock...4.3mm

at 6 and 12...4.35mm

overall thickness...12.8mm in center of crystal -- 13.35mm at magnifier

thickest part of lugs on outside edge of 3 o'clock side about half way between the crown and springbar holes...5.0mm +/- at both ends (hard to get an exact measurement)

on the other side...4.9mm +/- (hard to get an exact measurement)

caseback od...35.45mm

inner bezel (crystal bezel) od...36.03mm

between lugs...20.02mm both ends

 

Watch is in good condition, all genuine.

These dims are super helpful! Thanks for posting this. 

Any chance you still have a gen 1675 that you’d be willing to post more pics and dims of? 

I have an incoming Cartel case that I’d like to push the limits of case rework on. The more dimensions I have the better. 

I’m fully aware it won’t ever be identical, especially with the lack of material at the CG’s. I just want to see what I can do with it anyways. 

Thanks in advance!!