hanski

My glucydur balance wheel arrived from germany! 

...but the staff had a broken pinion. NOS my @$$

I decided to pick up a standard nickel balance wheel for now to get my watch going (it was supposed to be my Christmas gift to myself after all). That is installed and things are running smoothly. 

Since I’m with a matte black dial I need to decide on the insert. Three to choose from: Phong Black, Slay Kissing 40 Black, or Phong Blue. Nothing has been aged yet but when I do it’ll be a light touch. 

Lets crowd source some thoughts on this, what do you like best? 

Dial and hands relumed. 

So, I take back anything bad I have ever said about a lume application to a Tudor Dial - what a pain in the...every plot has four corners. But it’s done and I like it. 

Oh, and yeah, it’s a matte black dial now. Turned out Phong got a bad batch of gloss blue dials for gen movements. The date window misaligned to the date wheel. He promptly sent me a black one with a black insert. When the blue ones come in I’ll pick one up and swap it out. For now my 9411 will be a black dial project it seems. 

3 hours ago, manodeoro said:

Better and better M !!!
Congrats

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk
 

Thank you sir! Never did get that Explorer dial to relume...

😉

49 minutes ago, Lo' said:

Is there a way to reshape it with lume paste?

It’s possible but there’s a few issues that make it tricky: 

- the lume changes appearance based on the plot below it. For instance, White is best as it help reflect the glow/lume base color. Black makes the lume darker and lume base tone appear darker. 

- it’s easy enough to mix a lume to match another lume but it’s far more difficult to get the two lumes to match in level of glow. 

If it is possible, remove lume, replot the white triangle then relume 

Continuing the lume work - this time it’s a 5513 meters first with a burnt ochre lume repsenting an dark aged tritium. 

(Excuse the dust on the dial)

Finished reshaping the lugs this evening. Cut down the top a bit to make more gradual the slope from the rehaute down to the tip, then recut the chamfer, and repolished everything. I did intentionally ease the edges of the chamfer, I don’t want sharp, new cuts. 

It’s all slowly coming together. Now if only that new gluycdur balance wheel would show up from Germany...

@Lo'

Very nice build. What’s the inspiration/history behind the dial? It’s very unique and I’d love to learn more. 

Also, that’s a 3156 movement, not an ETA2824. Is it gen or clone? 

Well, first step has been preparing the case to better accept a gen 7030 Tube and 704 Crown. 

As the case come from MQ, it has an afterthought of a countersink for the tube. This causes any gen spec tube to sit proud of the case - which also causes the crown to float away from the case. 

I measured the two steps in the tube, 3.9mm and 4.9mm. Unfortunately I could not find those exact end mill, 4-blade, flat, carbide cutting bits so I ended up with a 4mm and 5mm. Thankfully it was close enough and the tube fit snugly into the end countersink. 

As you can see, I continued to bore in with the 4mm and stepped up to 5mm for the upper portion. It was a process of cut, measure, cut, measure, test the tube, repeat. I was using a precision milking machine but I think a drill press would work fine as well. 

Crown sits tight and flush. 

Next endeavor will be the lugs - reshaping a bit. 

Arisen from the depths of my watch bin, an incredible and rare ghost 1680 red dial submariner - catch a glimpse before it vanishes. 

No papers, no history, nothing - provenience unknown. Much like the name, it’s like a apparition appearing out of nowhere. But the work was real: 

- Fully reshaped case including lugs, chamfers, spring bar holes, and CG’s

- Case repolished and rebrushed

- Aged and repolished bezel

- Ghosted Insert, backside maintained as black

- Relumed Dial and hand set to match with thin, lightly pillowed lume plots

- Hands aged in an organic blend of apple cider vinegar and fresh pacific seawater

- Reassembled with freshly lubed gaskets, all parts compression fitted

17 minutes ago, hologramet said:

So.. You wanna buy my Tudor 2484 now?

Ha! 

Just a quick comparison of of Mercedes hands for a Rolex/Tudor submariner - sized for ETA 2824/2836. 

I haven’t given them a thorough analysis yet so make your own judgement on the best set or combination. 

And so it starts, my headlong dive into a trio of gen-stein-franken-Tudors. It started with a 17j Tudor ETA 2784. Picked it up off VRF for a reasonable price. Or so I thought until I discovered not only did it need a full service cleaning but replacement automatic works Bridge, keywords needed to be rebuilt, and a new balance required (still waiting on the balance). Regardless this inspired the first project, a blue 9411/0. 

- MQ Case w/ lugs reshaped, CG’s reshaped, tube retapped, chamfers recut, and repolished. 

- WSO Tension Spring (en route)

- Clark’s 7030 Tube (en route)

- Gen 704 Crown (I know 702 is correct but I came into this one for free)

- TC Hand Set (aged in organic Pacific saltwater, reluming forthcoming)

- Phong Insert (aging forthcoming) 

- Phong Dial (reluming forthcoming) 

- Erika’s Original MN Strap

The pleasure of working on genuine movements and gen spec VN cases inspired me to continue the trajectory into these gen-stein-franken-Tudors. I’m partial to them for their cost - Rolex movements are out of control. Tudor movements are still reasonable, parts are readily available, and easy to work on. 

Ive decided to continue working my way back in time. The next two movements that arrived today are an ETA 2462 and an ETA 2461. Both picked up for a bargain on WUS and sold as “great running condition”. Hardly the case...

The 2462 was missing a barrel bridge screw and someone installed the wrong screw in the  minute c o ck. I was able to harverst those from the 2461 and it was off and running nicely. It even came with an interesting Tudor crown. 

The 2461 is now missing the two above mentioned screws plus the winding pinion, and stem. Hopefully a few parts and it’ll be up and running. 

And now begins the hunt for 7021 and 7016 case/dial/etc. I think I’m going to go for a 7928 dial on the 7016 and a black snowflake on the 7021. 

Guess what this is all leading me towards? Hunting for a Tudor 390 movement to eventually build a 7922 big crown. 

Oh the rabbit hole....

This is great @jimcon11! Keep up the rigorous, detail-oriented work and keep sharing your process. Experimenting, sharing, and helping each other is what this is all about. 

On 1/13/2019 at 12:19 AM, Nanuq said:

Magnificent!  Now you just need a case to complete the story...

 

 

Grow a few barnacles on it and I’ll take it! 

This is th unfortunate story of a Yuki Red 1680 dial. Purchased M2M but discovered the paint was not properly adhered when the dial started to flake apart. Super disappointed, I promptly did my best to repair it. It was okay but never to my liking. Decided it would be a fun dial to experiment on - so I bring to you The Ocean Found Dial. 

I can imagine the story of a chap always in search of a bargain. Excited to find a vintage 1680 Red submariner on Craigslist, he buys it. But after bringing it to his local AD for authentication is told it’s a fake! He promptly tosses it into the ocean. After years of tumbling around it washes up to shore, to be found by me! Yay! 

Enjoy! 

Because I have no life, another dial: 

Sterile 5513 RT dial with a faux, dark aged tritium. 

So I got my MQ case today - same chamfer in the rehaute that you mentioned and encountered with your case. Just to put it out there, the CG’s are good, case profile is nearly good, rehaute has a chamfer (but fits a gen 25-125 Crystal), lugs fit gen spring bars out of the box, tube is horrible (not even installed fully flush to case, crown is nominally better than a Cartel crown, case back is horrible (engravings are chunky and do not look like website images). 

So a few questions for you: 

1. How did you fix the rehaute to angle straight down? 

2. Are we certain it should have the chamfer? 

Digging thru VRF sales images I find three that stick out. Of the three, to my eye it appears one may have a chamfer and two are vertical. My clues: the thickness of the top of the rehaute, the width seen when looking down, and the reflection of the lume (there is no lume reflection when chamfered, there is when vertical). 

I don’t own a gen to compare with so I’m basing this on images. 

Then again, the lighting is different and maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part. 

Continuing with my lume practice and experimenting, tonite I have a sterile faux-gilt submariner dial from RT. For this one I tried a different technique. I applied the lume as I would normally but once the plot was done I “dry brushed” some dark brown lume pigment onto the top of the wet lume. By dry brush, I mean I took the oiler fresh and still with some wet lume on it, dipped it into a pile of dry pigment, then carefully applied the dry pigment granules to the plot. 

I think it’s a fairly successful attempt at aging tritium that has turned inconsistently dark and pebbled on the top of the plot. 

Because it takes a little extra time, I had to mix a second batch of lume half way through. 

We’ll I’ve been at it again with another 1680 Red Submariner. Watch came to me modestly modded but in need to some serious rework and cleanup. Along with the basic work I took some time to experiment and hone in on some of the small, subtle details: 

- A2813 movement for the slow beat movement of the sweep hand

- Cartel case as a basis for the design - reshaped lugs, recut chamfers, reshaped CG’s, and repolished

- Clark’s crystal

- RT hands, aged in all natural Pacific Ocean salt water then relumed with the dial

- Dial is a stock Cartwl dial that was maybe a bit overzealously painted. Dial was cleaned and then relumed

- WSO bezel assembly eased and repolished

- WSO insert faded and aged to a navy blue/black. Service pip relumed to match dial and hands

- Case countersunk for Athaya crown and tube. Edges eased

- Lugs drilled out for 2mm spring bars, WSO 580 end links installed, and bracelet modified to work with 2mm spring bars

- DWO cooked to a slight yellowish tone

Enjoy! 





 






7 hours ago, ceejay said:

Sorry, but up until the point you re-lumed that dial you were doing great.

If it was my watch I wouldn't have touched that dial. 1st because the original lume looks suspiciously like Radium (very radio-active) 2nd because the original lume looked better.

 

Again, apologies if I'm being over critical but I have seen far too many classic vintage timepieces not ruined but, spoilt.

 

How about stripping that case. Is it chrome over base metal? Have it re-chromed and it will lift it up several notches.

 

Good luck.

 

Critical thoughts are always welcomed. We can’t always just pat each other on the back. 

Thank you for the suggestion of rechroming the case - that wasn’t something I was considering but it’s now high on my list of things to do. 

As to the lume - this was something I considered long and hard. 

I’m happy to fetishize vintage, aged lume - particularly when is clean and consistent. But I take off my rose-colored lume glasses when it is a rotten green-black, moisture damaged color/texture. 

In that case (and this one) a well-done, period correct relume is appealing to me. 

Aesthetically, I DO tend to agree with you about the graphic quality of the old lume verses redo. The dark color is a nice contrast to the dial (particularly the tan-aged dial). 

In person, the relume doesn’t get as lost as in the pictures. There’s always angles and light dancing on it to keep it legible. 

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by ruined vs spoilt? 

And, yes, it might have been radium but I took precautions in the removal to avoid unnecessary exposure. 

Project complete with crystal installed, gaskets sealed, and vintage BoR bracelet with aftermarket TG endlinks. 

11 minutes ago, manodeoro said:

Next step is luming a 26mm 3/6/9 dial

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Any time! 

1 hour ago, jackflash said:

Excellent work! What recipe did you use for the lume-mix?

I use Noctilumina - http://www.noctilumina.com/

I usually mix some combination of G15F with AG40F, AG44F, TG45F, and AN98F. Then I add Binder 3 until the mix is like brownie batter - kind of thick but with some viscous properties. 

The light creamy tone was 1/3 of G15F, AG40F and TG45F. 

The dark yellow tone was 1/3 G15F, AG44F, TG45F with a dash of AN98F. 

9 hours ago, manodeoro said:

really nice job Mat ... congrats

and Happy New Year 

Happy New Year to you as well! 

I was graciously donated a couple of dials to continue practicing lume work - a 1680 and 6538. 

The 1680 is a standard Cartel dial, relumed with a creamy offwhite tone. Of particular note, studying gen dials, it appears the lume should be fairly flat with only a slight pillowing. I’ve tried to capture that aesthetic here. In addition the hands were aged in Pacific Ocean saltwater with a touch of organic apple cider vinegar. 

The 6538 is a faux gilt dial. Again, studying dial examples, the lume pillows but isn’t overly chunky. In this instance I experimented with a two tone line process. First applying a thin layer of lighter lume then adding a dollop of darker shade in the middle. Unfortunately I didn’t contrast quite enough. Next go around I’ll sharpen the difference. Like the first, the hands were aged in a custom crafted solution of Pacific saltwater and organic ACV. 

Enjoy! 

@xpanzer88x

35 minutes ago, jimcon11 said:

That said, I've had decent experience with Phong and very good experience with Ruby, who would be my default first choice for parts in the future.

I’ve had very good experience with Ruby. Good quality, good prices, and good service/shipping time. If Ruby had Tudor products I would have gone that route. 

Im currently working through a transaction with Phong and I’ll say he’s been very accommodating. First, he charged me $60 for Fedex shipping. Package arrived via flat rate USPS. I asked for a refund for the difference and he sent it within an hour. Second, the blue Tudor 9411/0 snowflake dial is beautiful. Tested it on my 2784 - DW misaligned. I told him about it, he apologized and he’s sending me a black dial (free) to install in my build until he gets new blue ones with the correct DW alignment at the end of January. All this and his dials and inserts were actually cheaper and shipped faster than MQ. If I hadn’t all ready sent money to MQ I would have just paid the extra for a case from Phong. I’m pleased with the service so far (finger crossed it keeps up). 

As for the Tudor craze - I think it’s there but maybe that’s cause I caught the bug. Admittedly I’m going the Tudor route because I can find genuine pieces (particularly movements) at fair prices. If Rolex movements were cheaper I would try to build a Frankenstein one of those too.