vlaletom Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Heya I need a little help from the panerai expert. I have until now mainly focused on rolex franken. But i was willing to change a little for nrw project. And vintage PAM had allway been somting i was planning to do. So today i jumped in !! just baugth 2 cortebert 616 on the bay here are link to the auction: first second My first question is, do you guy think it was a good deal ? And now what should be my next step ? i whant to do a nice Radiomir and a luminor. What are my best option to find case, hand and dial ? i would like the luminor to look like a beaten up 1950 And for the radiomir am thinking of a california dial I guess those subject have been covered up many time, but i am too exited and cant wait for some advice any help apreciated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob bean Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Wow, great pick up. Try either of the below links for cases, dial, hands etc. They're not vintage components but worth a look. http://www.siswatch727.com/index.do or/and http://www.jacksontse.com/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 check repgeek, not panerai area, but vintage watch area. and you could look around at dsn site. and maybe ask him. more people get cases for these projects from him. I am sure he knows more as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted September 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 bob bean, thanks for the link. Those case are actually quite cheap, if they are good, that really intersting. Folowing hooky advice, i have been reading a lot on RG vintage section. Seams that most project are based on DSN case. I am still uncetrtan on what vintage ref number i whant to do ... Probaly a 6152, and a radiomir with blue hand & california dial .. Would somone have a link to a page with picture & number reference for vintage panies ?? Also if i did my reading corectly it is possible to use 6497 dials for a 616 project ? I have seen there is an ongoing project here at RWG for making cortebert hands, so i will folow this project with attention. Exuse all those noob questions, but even if i have now a good experience with rolex franken, i am a total newbe when it comes to PAM Thanks for helping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Thanks for posting the link--I won a minor prize in the vintage PAM lottery (for the first and probably the last time in 5 years of collecting) by picking up a pocket watch 100% identical to the one in the first link for $89.68 at a charity shop. I was having doubts whether or not it is a Cal. 616 but I suppose now that it is. IMO, unless your intent is to build an homage instead of a rep, 616's are for solid caseback watches only, which is a good thing: 1)most 3646's had solid casebacks and the only timea clear casebacks were used is when a watch was sent back to OP for retrofitting or when one was added by a collector to show that his watch is gen. 2) a 616 is an "instant tell" flaw to anyone who knows 2646's are powered by 618's. 3) a 616 will perform like a 618, which is much better than the poljot alternative. The bottom line is that you got an excellent deal (i'd say the fair market value of a 616 is about $650) as loing as you are building a homage or a solid back rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted September 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 @archibald Good to know that i wasnt silly to pull the triger at that price. Even if now i am prepared to complication and have to learn a lot more to be able to complete a nice project. I plan to do an "homage" rather than an exact "copy". I know real where powered by 618 but last time i have seen one it went for 2k$ and that was 2 year ago !!! but i have not been searching actively... My watch wont have to pretend being an historical piece, at least not for my first attempt, so i would rather go for an open caseback, to tell it apart from basic reps. Maybe a "Rolex" engraving on the bridge would still be a nice addition, but not mandatory. I have seen lot of vintage project on RG where the bridge where engraved, but with a 616 marking, so i guess there is a connection for such a work (maybe only VDB?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) most of the Cortebert 616 are in poor condition and won´t be usable for a "every day" wearing 80% of all Cortebert 616 need a new balance stuff, a new stem or a new keyless work. To find this parts is more difficult as to find the movement itself. Also all movements needs as first a FULL overhaul by a master watchmaker. To building a vintage PAM is one thing... to building a perfect working vintage PAM is another A vintage PAM project with an Cortebert 616 will costs you all in all $1.500 and up... and for this price i would like to have a watch which is usable for many years. Edited September 6, 2009 by t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted September 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 @t The movement i baught where "supposed" to have been just serviced. That was one of the point that helped me pull the trigger, now it can be B.S. i will soon kow... I dont plan to wear those watch everyday neither, as i am starting to have many watch i love, so that will help reduce the wear. But your right that if they dont work well i should have them serviced. Maybe i can do it myself, as i am used to service ETA, (i got everything including an elmasonic Ultrasonic cleaner, and most moebus oil). But if part needs to be made that an other story, way above my head. I'll keep you posted, when i will recive them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 It would be interesting to know which parts are interchangeble with the 616 and 618. for instance, the parts of the 624, 620 or maybe even some parts of the 5xx cortebert series. that would be great to know for many panerai vintage enthusiasts... So anyone knows? Tourby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 most parts from 616,620 are interchangeable. The 624 is different. Looks very similar but is thinner and with a bigger main plain. Also exists a 617 cal. which is a Savonette cal... this means that this have the small second on 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted September 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 @t I have never saw any Cortebert 618 cal? I know the Rolex 618 which is a overworked Cortebert 616. But the Cortenert 618 is not the same like the Rolex 618. Check this link : http://cgi.ebay.com/CORTEBERT-cal-618-POCKET-WATCH-MOVEMENT_W0QQitemZ160360648248QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPocket_Watches?hash=item25563d4e38 Not too shure about authenticity, but i think cortebert had a ref 618 in it's line, rolex was buying the ebauche & customizing. unfortunatly my link to cortebert references page is dead (i should have saved the whole page not just the bookmark) This one has the correct shape but is not jeweled on the center weel, so it is only 15 jewel, hasn't even a plated finish, so i guess it has to be like the ebauche RLX used. Or it's just a plain fake, dunno... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mir36 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 vlaletom: Just curious. Have you received your Corteberts yet? I bought a 616 from the same seller the week before your purchase (Item number: 180402185238). Even paid extra to have it DHL'd to me. But I haven't heard from the seller since despite several attempts. I know the seller is legit and has had some dealings with other members here and in RG. I'm just puzzled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mir36 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Btw. Better get some vintage dials from Ross McSherry while you still can. Check the sales thread here and in RG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 @vlaletom I have access to as many 616 balance staff's and stem's that you will ever need, if you find that either of yours is broken or missing, just let me know. No problem replacing the balance staff either, I have done it many times. Many of the Cortebert's I buy have broken balance staff's, this is a common problem on vintage movements, not only Cortebert's. As long as the hairspring is not broken and still usable, it is repairable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmcsherry Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Complete balances with hairspring are readily available in the UK, Zigmeister, just incase you ever need any! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Good info, thanks rmcsherry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 @mir36 I just paypaled yesterday, so i dont expect them befor 1 or 2 weeks. I think 2 weeks is nothing to be woried about, the shipping cost was just 10$ for 2 movement, so i guess it can't be priority mail. @The Zigmeister Good to know that you have some spare parts for those. they are "supposed" to have just been serviced. But now i am shure that if somthing is wrong, this wont be a problem as you can do your magic on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mir36 Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Just want to close the loop: I received my Cort from the seller today. Everything's fine in my vintage world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkJ Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 vlaletom Interesting project. Now that you have the 616's, get them reworked to a 618 and choose a case that has the correct movement ring, etc. I would think DSN has a correctly built dial by now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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