Want to hear your opinions on purchasing first Gen.

[TeeJay]

Thanks teejay i was expecting your response here! and besides its true we may get bored quickly with a gen and regret all that money gone on a watch!

our hobbie and fun is from getting our reps looking like the gen, and appriecating all our efforts, when you got a gen where do you go from there?

of cause this does not apply to vintage subs! its like a house its one thing buying a house and moving in and another if you built it all my yourself! this adds sentimental value to it!

Any time, bro I think you're spot on with your point of 'where to go' with a gen after buying it. Sure, an inherited or gifted gen would have sentimental value, and a purchased vintage at least has it's past adventures to be interesting, but a straight up purchased modern gen, that's just 'another watch'... Projects are always fun, and definitely result in a strong connection to the watch, but I accept that not everyone's into projects, and just wants something nice 'out of the box' I think a BK Sub will provide everything a gen sub would provide 'out of the box', except for the bill at the AD

[mjmj]

Thanks teejay i was expecting your response here! and besides its true we may get bored quickly with a gen and regret all that money gone on a watch!

our hobbie and fun is from getting our reps looking like the gen, and appriecating all our efforts, when you got a gen where do you go from there?

of cause this does not apply to vintage subs! its like a house its one thing buying a house and moving in and another if you built it all my yourself! this adds sentimental value to it!

Thank you Aeromatic and I completely agree with your comment.

[Star69]

it all depends how deep your diving in to the Submariners -

i had countless rep-generations of the watch and 3 gen Subs.

i agree that the WM9V2 - not V3 is a nice rep and its a LOT of fun to mod it with gen parts.

but there are this little thinks that are still off - that drives me personally crazy

+ if you want to have it nicly modded you can end up close to 50% of what you pay for a used Sub ....

cheers,

Frank

[kbh]

Let me throw in one more quick comment. Don't forget the cost of ownership here. You buy a used watch that will probably need servicing at the tune of what, $500 at the RSC?

$500 every 5 years? That's $100 a year for the pleasure of wearing an overpriced watch that everybody's gonna think is fake anyway. I'd stick with the WM9 cause once you have the gen you'll probably leave it at home and wear the WM9 just cause you don't want to scratch it.

[aeromatic]

Any time, bro I think you're spot on with your point of 'where to go' with a gen after buying it. Sure, an inherited or gifted gen would have sentimental value, and a purchased vintage at least has it's past adventures to be interesting, but a straight up purchased modern gen, that's just 'another watch'... Projects are always fun, and definitely result in a strong connection to the watch, but I accept that not everyone's into projects, and just wants something nice 'out of the box' I think a BK Sub will provide everything a gen sub would provide 'out of the box', except for the bill at the AD

you are correct and let us not forget that without our projects we wouldent have much to write about in this friendly community except post some gen watches! and for persons who are not into projects there is thankfully a lot of nice out of the box watches i own some of these i call them homage watches and leave them pretty much as they are and enjoy them with out pulling my hair out comparing the watch to the gen, but i have also projects that i want to be as close as possible to the gen like my yuki 6538 bond watch! and i can understand some members being annoyed with some high priced reps with small faults when being compared to the gen but the good news is high quality reps are getting better and better! yes i know that if we added all the money spent over a time that we could have bought a gen, i have owned more that a hundred reps over the years!! and we all go through the v1 to v6 or v7 ! we should take our hobbies lightly, enjoy it,and not let it become an obsession!

[aeromatic]

Let me throw in one more quick comment. Don't forget the cost of ownership here. You buy a used watch that will probably need servicing at the tune of what, $500 at the RSC?

$500 every 5 years? That's $100 a year for the pleasure of wearing an overpriced watch that everybody's gonna think is fake anyway. I'd stick with the WM9 cause once you have the gen you'll probably leave it at home and wear the WM9 just cause you don't want to scratch it.

Well said here too! and we know that you will never own a rolex watch! its like you are renting it from them they dont like aftermarket parts and there history of changing parts as part of the service without the owners consent! how many vintage watches have been ruined by having the dials and crowns updated! on there prices they should provide free service for there watches! reps have proved that you can have a good quality watch for under 1,000usd and with a regular service they will last many years too!

[Star69]

the TCO ?

come on - the regular gen owner puts the watch to a service if somehting is broken ...

this can be after a looong time if its a gen Rolex 15 years ? maybe longer ....

just like Seikos they run and run also thanks to synthetic oils -

and if you believe it or not there are independent watchmakers out there too

no magic there just simple but robust movements

cheers,

Frank

[HauteHippie]

Let me throw in one more quick comment. Don't forget the cost of ownership here. You buy a used watch that will probably need servicing at the tune of what, $500 at the RSC?

$500 every 5 years? That's $100 a year for the pleasure of wearing an overpriced watch that everybody's gonna think is fake anyway. I'd stick with the WM9 cause once you have the gen you'll probably leave it at home and wear the WM9 just cause you don't want to scratch it.

Ya, and personally I would have Zig take care of the servicing for less than 1/2 the RSC price.

One more thing, if the Y serial sub you are looking at is the LawrenceB is selling it is nice, and he is a good seller... But he is always on the high side in terms of price... FWIW

[Submariner400]

Wow, love all the comments!

I can say that i see both sides, i dont feel like its stupid to buy a Gen though, i have already explained why but they are expensive. Last night i tried to get my "rep mindset" back and i was doing a lot of thinking...if you own a high end rep with custom parts like my V2 - does your mind have to keep going to the fact that its "fake" i dont like to even use that word because i think its much more of a replica but when i would wear it i would sometimes get the feeling that i didnt have the real history or watch on my wrist so why am i wearing it? While so many of the problems are solved on the V2 V3, there are still issues. I know the the new YM from WM9 is almost "perfect" from what you see, so i feel like that watch would be easier to wear....i dont know maybe im just a stickler for details. Like i said before though, everytime i look at the Sub i think of when i was younger and saw my uncle wearing one and how awesome it looked, and even though it looked great, he still wore it diving. In my head i know i will get a Gen one day so why not now but i am taking my time, i could have bought one of them yesterday easily, but im still looking.

So if i can swing the discussion a little bit - what is the "mindset" of a Rep wearer? Do you have to look at all the details? Does it matter when you are still getting the same experience?

I have a Gen crown coming in, and honestly i feel like that is the only obvious thing slacking on the rep, its just a bit oversized, in the midst of all my Gen talk, i do think i could make the V2 about as close as you could get with some Gen parts.........still want a Gen though!

[TeeJay]

Wow, love all the comments!

I can say that i see both sides, i dont feel like its stupid to buy a Gen though, i have already explained why but they are expensive. Last night i tried to get my "rep mindset" back and i was doing a lot of thinking...if you own a high end rep with custom parts like my V2 - does your mind have to keep going to the fact that its "fake" i dont like to even use that word because i think its much more of a replica but when i would wear it i would sometimes get the feeling that i didnt have the real history or watch on my wrist so why am i wearing it? While so many of the problems are solved on the V2 V3, there are still issues. I know the the new YM from WM9 is almost "perfect" from what you see, so i feel like that watch would be easier to wear....i dont know maybe im just a stickler for details. Like i said before though, everytime i look at the Sub i think of when i was younger and saw my uncle wearing one and how awesome it looked, and even though it looked great, he still wore it diving. In my head i know i will get a Gen one day so why not now but i am taking my time, i could have bought one of them yesterday easily, but im still looking.

So if i can swing the discussion a little bit - what is the "mindset" of a Rep wearer? Do you have to look at all the details? Does it matter when you are still getting the same experience?

I have a Gen crown coming in, and honestly i feel like that is the only obvious thing slacking on the rep, its just a bit oversized, in the midst of all my Gen talk, i do think i could make the V2 about as close as you could get with some Gen parts.........still want a Gen though!

-Does your mind have to keep going to the fact that it's fake?:

No. Once someone gets their head round the fact that the general public who might see the watch will not care what they're wearing, they find they start wearing watches which they enjoy wearing, regardless of how they may appear to others (who most times don't care...) As you say, the word 'fake' doesn't give credit to how good these watches can be. Even stuff out of the box would probably pass as genuine to anyone who doesn't know watches. I think the terms 'forgeries' and 'reproductions' as they would apply to forged paintings are closer to what these watches represent, rather than just being 'fake knock offs'.

-What is the mindset of a rep wearer?:

Varies from collector to collector... Some people are happy to get a watch 'out of the box' and wear it as is, and will tell anyone who asks that it is a rep, some people prefer to build watches as projects (either accurately to an existing watch, or to a customized design) and there are also those who want to be able to lie to people and pass their rep off as genuine... (They have other issues which a fake watch is never going to resolve )

Personally speaking, I'm happy with an out of the box rep, but I do also like building a watch. As mentioned with my Tudor Sub, the source of the parts means that the watch has meaning for me. If anyone was to ever comment on it, I wouldn't try and pass it off as genuine, but I would explain that I built it myself. Something you need to bear in mind, is your age and income bracket. I know you've said that you could have afforded to buy one, but would a stranger meeting you for the first time think you could afford, or be in the position to own, a genuine Rolex? I say Rolex, because as a brand, it is so widely copied, that to the minds of many, Rolex = Fake. People are more likely to believe that your gen is a rep, than to believe your rep is gen... Could you deal with people thinking it's a fake watch when you know that it isn't, or might that make you feel that it was money wasted? Sure, the same people might ask if the BK is a rep, but at least that is what it is... If, on the other hand, rather than buying a gen, you were to start installing gen parts, if asked if the watch was real, or where you bought it, or even just a 'Nice watch, bro..." while you wouldn't be able to say the watch was 'real', at least you can come out with the trump card of "I built it myself..."

[Submariner400]

-Does your mind have to keep going to the fact that it's fake?:

No. Once someone gets their head round the fact that the general public who might see the watch will not care what they're wearing, they find they start wearing watches which they enjoy wearing, regardless of how they may appear to others (who most times don't care...) As you say, the word 'fake' doesn't give credit to how good these watches can be. Even stuff out of the box would probably pass as genuine to anyone who doesn't know watches. I think the terms 'forgeries' and 'reproductions' as they would apply to forged paintings are closer to what these watches represent, rather than just being 'fake knock offs'.

-What is the mindset of a rep wearer?:

Varies from collector to collector... Some people are happy to get a watch 'out of the box' and wear it as is, and will tell anyone who asks that it is a rep, some people prefer to build watches as projects (either accurately to an existing watch, or to a customized design) and there are also those who want to be able to lie to people and pass their rep off as genuine... (They have other issues which a fake watch is never going to resolve )

Personally speaking, I'm happy with an out of the box rep, but I do also like building a watch. As mentioned with my Tudor Sub, the source of the parts means that the watch has meaning for me. If anyone was to ever comment on it, I wouldn't try and pass it off as genuine, but I would explain that I built it myself. Something you need to bear in mind, is your age and income bracket. I know you've said that you could have afforded to buy one, but would a stranger meeting you for the first time think you could afford, or be in the position to own, a genuine Rolex? I say Rolex, because as a brand, it is so widely copied, that to the minds of many, Rolex = Fake. People are more likely to believe that your gen is a rep, than to believe your rep is gen... Could you deal with people thinking it's a fake watch when you know that it isn't, or might that make you feel that it was money wasted? Sure, the same people might ask if the BK is a rep, but at least that is what it is... If, on the other hand, rather than buying a gen, you were to start installing gen parts, if asked if the watch was real, or where you bought it, or even just a 'Nice watch, bro..." while you wouldn't be able to say the watch was 'real', at least you can come out with the trump card of "I built it myself..."

Thanks for the response.

I realize that a lot of people want the Gen to show off etc, but i can honestly say its me that is the problem. There is no one i know or would ever know, that could say anything about watches, they dont even know what a Gen costs let alone the fact that Reps are so accurate now. Even now, i dont ever tell anyone "I have a Rolex", i could care less, i have just always loved watches and the Sub is my favorite watch. Mentally i just find myself drifting more to the idea that, i have this Rep because its representing a watch i love, so why not get the real one? But my mind does wonder, i was looking at some Subs today online and some of these (not all) look exactly like my V2, so no doubt the Reps are amazing now a days.

When i first got my V2 i almost felt smarter and good then a Gen wearer because i had virtually the same watch without the price, i was proud i found a way (starting with the 100$ p.o.s rep) and ending up with BK who hands down is the best person i have ever dealt with as far as sales, and his custom work is amazing - but i feel like i can see the edge and i may want to take the plunge, im still looking though. Found a few on ebay that are ok prices but still in the 3500-4000 range, they are complete sets though..

Anyway i would love to hear any other enthusiasts mindsets about a Rep, very informative..

[TeeJay]

Thanks for the response.

I realize that a lot of people want the Gen to show off etc, but i can honestly say its me that is the problem. There is no one i know or would ever know, that could say anything about watches, they dont even know what a Gen costs let alone the fact that Reps are so accurate now. Even now, i dont ever tell anyone "I have a Rolex", i could care less, i have just always loved watches and the Sub is my favorite watch. Mentally i just find myself drifting more to the idea that, i have this Rep because its representing a watch i love, so why not get the real one? But my mind does wonder, i was looking at some Subs today online and some of these (not all) look exactly like my V2, so no doubt the Reps are amazing now a days.

When i first got my V2 i almost felt smarter and good then a Gen wearer because i had virtually the same watch without the price, i was proud i found a way (starting with the 100$ p.o.s rep) and ending up with BK who hands down is the best person i have ever dealt with as far as sales, and his custom work is amazing - but i feel like i can see the edge and i may want to take the plunge, im still looking though. Found a few on ebay that are ok prices but still in the 3500-4000 range, they are complete sets though..

Anyway i would love to hear any other enthusiasts mindsets about a Rep, very informative..

Any time If you say that you like that the BK Sub represents the real thing, personally, I would suggest making it a project and installing some gen parts. That way, you get what is essentially a genuine watch (maybe with the exclusion of the mid-case) so none of the flaws to bug you, you still get the ability to say "I built this..." if asked about it, and save about 50% of the gen retail price... If after completing the project you still really feel the need to get a gen sub, you could always sell it here, and would definitely get a worthy price for it to put towards the gen I just think, that as you've already got the 'best of the best' when it comes to Subs, the differences between the gen and the rep, rather than making you think "Yeah, this is the shit!" are just as likely to make you think "I paid that much for this difference in the watch?" and then make you regret the purchase, which would be a shame. Maybe you'd find a different variant of a Submariner interesting? Not necessarily a Tudor, but maybe a 1680 or 6200...

[HauteHippie]

BTW, I saw a very recent listing for an M serial sub (2007) in 97% condition with all boxes and papers for $3700... It might still be available (though he didn't mention if it was a 16610). I can't vouch for the seller though. I know nothing about the person.

PM me for the guy's email if interested.

[mjmj]

Thanks for the response.

I realize that a lot of people want the Gen to show off etc, but i can honestly say its me that is the problem. There is no one i know or would ever know, that could say anything about watches, they dont even know what a Gen costs let alone the fact that Reps are so accurate now. Even now, i dont ever tell anyone "I have a Rolex", i could care less, i have just always loved watches and the Sub is my favorite watch. Mentally i just find myself drifting more to the idea that, i have this Rep because its representing a watch i love, so why not get the real one? But my mind does wonder, i was looking at some Subs today online and some of these (not all) look exactly like my V2, so no doubt the Reps are amazing now a days.

When i first got my V2 i almost felt smarter and good then a Gen wearer because i had virtually the same watch without the price, i was proud i found a way (starting with the 100$ p.o.s rep) and ending up with BK who hands down is the best person i have ever dealt with as far as sales, and his custom work is amazing - but i feel like i can see the edge and i may want to take the plunge, im still looking though. Found a few on ebay that are ok prices but still in the 3500-4000 range, they are complete sets though..

Anyway i would love to hear any other enthusiasts mindsets about a Rep, very informative..

It sounds like you are dead set on getting a Gen Sub so I would say "go for it". If you dont get one you will regret it. If you feel its a great deal then do it. I have this saying, "You can always replace the item but you can never replace the bargain". Good Luck. Please post some pics of your purchase.