Superfranken 88 question (movement related)

[Drulee]

Did I understand you guys correctly, all rep PAM A7750 with GMT complication watches are B1/low-beat/-1 movements? None of them are the newer high-beat versions? I was just asking because all the DSN GMT movements I've ever had, didn't/don't have the needle adjustment on the shock assembly, which I, obviously mistakenly, thought was a sign of a high-beat A7750.

[rolli]

yes,

1.) all cartel gmt models like the 088 / 089 / 156 / 228 ) have the old low beat movement 7750b1 inside.

2.) all davidsen gmt models ( 088 / 089 / 228 ) and the older auto pams ( 086 / 091 / 240 etc. ) have the old low beat 7750b1 movement inside.

rolli

Did I understand you guys correctly, all rep PAM A7750 with GMT complication watches are B1/low-beat/-1 movements? None of them are the newer high-beat versions? I was just asking because all the DSN GMT movements I've ever had, didn't/don't have the needle adjustment on the shock assembly, which I, obviously mistakenly, thought was a sign of a high-beat A7750.

[Drulee]

Ok, so that means I can't use the presence, or lack, of the needle adjustment on the shock assembly as a way to identify low from high beat. So how can one tell them (regular, non-GMT or chrono, PAMs) apart then?

[rolli]

the regulator needle is not the adjustment from low beat to high beat.

it adjust the time accuracy.

1.) swiss 7750 = 21.600 bph

2.) old asia 7750b1 = 21.600 bph

3.) custom made swiss 7750 for panerai = 28.800 bph

4.) new asia 7750 version = 28.800 bph

5.) swiss 7753 ( normally a custom made movement ) = 28.800 bph

6.) new asia 7753 version = 28.800 bph

7.) swiss 7754 gmt = 28.800 bph

7.) old asia 7750b1 with gmt function = 21.600 bph

note: over a watch part distributor you can only buy the standard swiss valjoiux 7750 with 21.600 bph.

the swiss 7750 with 28.800 bph is never to get, only the watch factories with a large order.

same the 7753.

rolli

Ok, so that means I can't use the presence, or lack, of the needle adjustment on the shock assembly as a way to identify low from high beat. So how can one tell them (regular, non-GMT or chrono, PAMs) apart then?

[Drulee]

I realize it adjusts the time accuracy. I was just saying that I used to believe that all A7750 28.8k movements came without that needle, while all the 21.6k ones have it. Which I now know is wrong.

So I would like to know how I can tell a 21.6k movement from a 28.8k one, just by looking at it (no measuring instruments).

As an example, you can identify a 6497-1 movement fairly easily, by just looking at the teeth on the drum, and various other cogs - they have fewer teeth than a 6497-2.

the regulator needle is not the adjustment from low beat to high beat.

it adjust the time accuracy.

1.) swiss 7750 = 21.600 bph

2.) old asia 7750b1 = 21.600 bph

3.) custom made swiss 7750 for panerai = 28.800 bph

4.) new asia 7750 version = 28.800 bph

5.) swiss 7753 ( normally a custom made movement ) = 28.800 bph

6.) new asia 7753 version = 28.800 bph

7.) swiss 7754 gmt = 28.800 bph

7.) old asia 7750b1 with gmt function = 21.600 bph

note: over a watch part distributor you can only buy the standard swiss valjoiux 7750 with 21.600 bph.

the swiss 7750 with 28.800 bph is never to get, only the watch factories with a large order.

same the 7753.

rolli

[rolli]

the difference between 21.600 low beat and 28.800 high beat you only can see it with a professional watchmaker time-leve machine.

there you see all datas which are adjustable with the movement.

and all gen swiss movement have always the regulator-needle.

only some asia movements have them not, because it is a cheap kind of movement production.

the chinese always think, when they can make upgrades then they earn more.

but with a good watchmaker with experience he can also adjust the regulator without the needle, but it needs more time.

not so exact like a regulator system with needle. but also here the watchmaker need time maybe two days.

included the accuracy between the different wearing habits of a watch on the wrist, then he need longer to get a good - super accuracy.

never with one time adjustment. never.

one of my last swiss movement in a pam, we needed one week.

that means, watchmaker adjustment in connection with the time-leve-machine. then one day to check on my wrist.

the day after a readjustment, and again and agin.

this pam with the swiss 7750 - 21.600 bph has a accuracy of 1,5 second per day plus. top result.

other pams from me with a swiss 7750 21.600bph movement have ca. 2 -3 second per day plus.

never possible with an asia movement. no matter which one.

material and finish and processing quality are too bad.

for me an asia movement in a pam is only a transitional phase till my watchmaker installed a swiss one.

for the handwind movements, i only have swiss unitas and some asia seagul unitas movements. the swiss once have 18.000 bph.

the seaguls have 21.600 bph.

i don't have swiss 6497-2 unitas movements. maybe later or not.

rolli

I realize it adjusts the time accuracy. I was just saying that I used to believe that all A7750 28.8k movements came without that needle, while all the 21.6k ones have it. Which I now know is wrong.

So I would like to know how I can tell a 21.6k movement from a 28.8k one, just by looking at it (no measuring instruments).

As an example, you can identify a 6497-1 movement fairly easily, by just looking at the teeth on the drum, and various other cogs - they have fewer teeth than a 6497-2.

[TK471]

I don't have specs on the movement unfortunately. The case, however, is supposed to be an 88L, at least according to the gen caseback. What i was told is that while it is not a perfect fit, the difference was virtually imperceptible and would not affect the function of the watch.

[TK471]

I would love to know what Zig thinks about this. It's very interesting to me.

[rolli]

he would say the same like me.

what i have said is fact.

rolli

I would love to know what Zig thinks about this. It's very interesting to me.

[TK471]

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you. My ultimate plan is to install a Swiss movement in it. This is a bridge as you say to that transplant. I need the Asian to function within moderate tolerances for a few months to a year, when I'm ready.

You've raised some interesting questions. Do I need a 7754, or can a standard Swiss 7750 be made to function as GMT? Is there a module or mod made to the standard 7750 which makes it a 7754?

[rolli]

all gen panerai gmt pam models with the small second at 9 are powered by a 7754.

forget all other things and focus your search for a swiss 7754.

many small watch factories have watches with a 7754 in their assortment and maybe a 7754 in stock as spare part.

search via google, and ask as much as possible the distributors.

also ask eta swizzerland direct which eta-distributor is in your country.

in germany is omega the eta-distributor.

or you buy via ebay or other sales portals a cheap watch with a 7754 and invest the service for cleaning etc..etc...

rolli

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you. My ultimate plan is to install a Swiss movement in it. This is a bridge as you say to that transplant. I need the Asian to function within moderate tolerances for a few months to a year, when I'm ready.

You've raised some interesting questions. Do I need a 7754, or can a standard Swiss 7750 be made to function as GMT? Is there a module or mod made to the standard 7750 which makes it a 7754?