Vacheron Constantin 222/Overseas and Genta (or Hysek?)

[lhooq]

Don't stop me if you've heard this one: Conventional WIS knowledge held that Gerald Genta was responsible for four of the most iconic integrated-bracelet designs of the late 1970s: the PP Nautilus, the IWC Ingenieur SL, the AP Royal Oak, and the VC 222 (which later morphed into the current Overseas).

A few years ago, the narrative changed to say that Genta's association was a "myth", and that it was actually Jorg Hysek who was behind the 222 (according to "VC insiders"). Google "vacheron genta hysek" and you'll see that this is now the accepted wisdom on several websites. But is it substantiated?

Almost every post on the topic leads back to the moderator of one forum, who said "Genta had nothing to do with the 222" and that "my info comes straight from the horse's mouth: the people at VC who worked on the 222 project." Reading these posts reminds me of the scene near the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark:

Eaton: We have top men working on the Ark.

Indy: [Challenging] Who?

Eaton: Top. Men.

Similarly, the claim regarding Hysek's involvement also begins and ends with that same moderator. There are no named sources from within VC, let alone scans of company records. Does anyone know if "The Genta Myth" is itself a myth?

[lhooq]

Too esoteric, eh? Well... Can't blame a guy for trying!

[txcollector]

Considering that the 222 is a milestone for Vacheron I think they would be asking someone like Genta to design it. However his other creations (PP Nautilus, IWC Ingenieur SL, AP Royal Oak) all follow the design philosophy that the bezel should resemble a ship's porthole. The 222 just doesn't strike me as following the same theme.

However the 222 came out in 1977 to commemorate 222 years of VC production. It has been associated with Genta since then. I think 34 years is long enough for VC and Genta to set the record straight if in fact he was NOT responsible for the design.

I'd say this forum moderator is full of it.

BTW, great review of the 222 here

http://www.thehourlounge.com/thread/view/vacheron-constantin-quot-222-quot-review_14390_14390.html

[txcollector]

btw, if Hysek did indeed design the 222 Genta and AP would probably have the right to sue him because the 222 mid case and the AP RO are identical.

I think Genta did it. Alex Ghotbi is full of it.

Here you have 2 former VC CEO's attributing the design to Genta and Gerald himself admitting that due to contracts he can't explicitly take credit for the designs, therefore the coy answer:

"RP: At the launch of the new Vacheron Constantin Overseas in 2004, former CEO Mr. Proellochs cited your role in the design inspiration of the Overseas’ predecessor, the 222. How do you feel about this?

GG: Yes, I noticed that Mr. Proellochs mentioned my involvement in Vacheron Constantin’s 222. But I must say I am flattered today when people mention me in conjunction with products. "

http://www.thehourlounge.com/thread/view/the-genta-myth_35848_35848.html

[lhooq]

Bless you for responding, tx! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this a bit fishy.

Here you have 2 former VC CEO's attributing the design to Genta and Gerald himself admitting that due to contracts he can't explicitly take credit for the designs...

I find it distasteful how the writer of your linked post takes Ghotbi's claims as established fact, then uses it to cast aspersions on GG's character:

"I find Genta's response to the question suspiciously vague."

"I like Genta's comment: he takes credit without saying anything!!!"

"I don't know why Genta is happy to let people believe that he created the watch (after all that he's accomplished, does he really need the extra credz?)"

Members of that forum need a heavy dose of skepticism. Did "Post proof or retract!" die with Usenet?

[txcollector]

I find it funny that he starts his "discussion" with 3 very strong proof points that Genta was behind it and then he cites his "findings" on some unknown document as definitive proof.

Gerard even says in the interview that due to contratual constraints he could not take credit for the AP RO and that Japanese fans were the ones that broke the story. So maybe this guy will dispute that too.

Besides don't you think that Hysek would have found a way to set the record straight by now?

[calatrava]

This is certainly a discussion that's of interest to me. I do agree that Alex Ghotbi seems to have been the sole corroborating source of the Hysek attribution for the VC 222 design, and it's interesting that Vacheron hasn't said anything either way officially.

[txcollector]

it's interesting that Vacheron hasn't said anything either way officially.

I'd think two VC CEO's (Claude Daniel Proellochs, 2004 and Juan-Carlos Torres, 2007) qualifies as VC officially confirming Genta as the designer.

[lhooq]

I'd think two VC CEO's (Claude Daniel Proellochs, 2004 and Juan-Carlos Torres, 2007) qualifies as VC officially confirming Genta as the designer.

Yes, yes... but Alex Ghotbi said it was Hysek in 2008 -AND- 2009!

Q.E.D.

To be precise, it was the writer of the '07 article (Wei Koh) who made the Genta-222 link, not JC Torres himself. However, the article was "brought to you by Vacheron Constantin" which I consider more credible than hearsay.

[Watchmeister]

Just found this thread. I do remember when this watch came out (yeah that's how old I am). It was probably the haute horologie sports watch when it came out. In those days thinner watches were in (remember those $5k quartz watches?) and it was one of the first watches to have that whole block of steel look with integrated feel bracelet and still be as thin as it was. Without knowing the whole Genta porthole analogy I remember thinking the bezel looked like the top of an honorary degree stamp and assumed it reflected the position of honor VC held at that time.