PeteM Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 So after Part 1 of this thread I wanted to consider the lume.... now this is one of the most important aspects of the PAM and to all intent and purpose is arguably the single most important consideration when first reviewing any rep PAM... I am sure most would agree it is probably the most talked about point of any PAM rep... in the past years it was always a detail that was the first to be modded as the OTB factory reps were simply awful... with the recent releases the rep lume has improved by leaps and bounds However it still lacks the gen like look we all crave..... this is because the OEM lume can be very difficult to reproduce as its look can vary in so many different ways when photographed and even when the factories have the gen watch to copy they are limited by the particular materials and mixes they use or the process which they use to apply the lume... so when looked at in the whole the lume still lacks a lot of the gen look and characteristics... We see this in different ways on the rep dials... for example... the matching of the hands to the indices, the colour tone of the lume charged or uncharged... you might think of the greyness that the sandwich dials have or the yellowness or greeness of the sausage dials and in the PAM 360 the orangeness of trying to replicate the Vintage Tritec lume of the gen... then you factor in the application of the lume especially in the sausage dials... but even in the simpler sandwich dials we see it applied to thickly or too thinly... mainly because of the poor top dial in terms of thickness or even thinness... The sausage dial lume is most problematic as the OEM is applied using a specialist machine which you can see pictured below, if the factory do not take into account the depth of the indices on the OEM dial then the factories will always struggle to achieve that OEM look in terms of application, ie; Lume height, lume thickness etc etc If we take for example the PAM 360 as this is the topic of much discussion at the moment on the forums... The OEM lume is produced and applied using RC Tritec products... the 360 lume is suppose to reproduce the old PreV/PreA Tritium lume however as this type of lume is now illegal to produce, RCT developed, on behalf of OP, ‘Old Radium’ this is based on a panatone colour with a C3 lume pigament.... this type of lume (The Dirty Lume) is used now on several PAM models eg; 390, 372, 339 and the boutique models... Sausage dials vary in height on different models but generally in the Luminors it is level or very slightly raised to the centre line of the numbers and indices... however as we all know these particular variants of the sausage lume can vary within the gen model ranges as the lume can drop or fall so it is a very difficult application to achieve correctly even for the professionals... that is generally because the lume when applied is still very fluid so as to be able to pass through the stylograph lume pen as you can see in the pic below..... this leads to variations in the same dial models and is even more variable when you consider the variation of the lume in those same dials.... as you can appreciate these dials (from the same models) aren’t all produced at the same time so colours and textures can vary slightly... if you think of a lumer sat at their work bench luming so many dials in a day then maybe not doing another batch of those dials till the next day or next week, or month etc... that leads to that lume mix especially with the varnish thats added being or likely to be slightly different in appearance or application... indeed even a different lumer could provide another variation... These are all factors that endear most of us to OP and in particular the sausage dials As some of you may know this is the reason we see for example the Fat and Thin indices on the PreVs... the dials are ostensibly the same in terms of the dial itself but its the lume itself that effects the look... if you compare a thin indices PreV dial to a fat indices PreV you can see the lume has covered the edges of the fat indices whereas the thin sits below and off the edges thereby giving the appearance of the indices being thinner or fatter which ever way you want to look at it You can see the general principles of the sausage lume application in various models from the diagram below. Note also the varnish application in those various models... Generally we know that the Luminova and Super Luminova comprises of differing amounts of C1 and C3 and it is guys like the Zig who have through steep learning curves and detailed research and experimentation managed to achieve high standards in replicating the OEM look. The factories have certainly tried to improve the lume standards of the OTB reps but still will struggle to achieve true accuracy whilst they rely on photos and the variations these can produce and also while they insist on using lesser products and cheaper methods of applications... of course until the basics of the dials are resolved the application of the lume is going to be difficult to replicate in terms of looks and appearance then consider the lume mix itself and the materials and processes used by the factories. The ability of the factories to produce more accurate dials is not going to progress if these areas are not improved... don’t get me wrong its certainly improving but so are our expectations so the accuracy is likely to stagnate until those sorts of areas are addressed.... Of course that still leaves the issues associated with the varnish finishes and typeface on these dials as well as shape etc but thats for another thread ....as are the hands !! Below you can see a couple of pics of the same gen dials giving different appearances yet they are all the same... I hope all that makes sense and thanks to all the guys that have contributed to providing this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Great part II. On the lume I have always wondered how the rep factories apply it? It can't be a stylograph - can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thank you W I think its probably a cheaper version as you can pick these up in various levels of quality... however they arent suited to certain lume mixes as I understand and can cost as little as a couple of hundred dollars... the swiss quality machines are in the thousands... but again I am not certain of the details... I am still researching that aspect... so other views and knowledge are always welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Really excellent stuff, Pete! Once again, both parts are a must read for everyone thinking of climbing the mountain of knowledge on PAM dials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Thanks Mike I appreciate your words mate... especially from you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Yes, mate, guilty as charged, for far too long I had others speaking my words on my behalf; but no more, Pete, I promise you from now on, I shall be the sole ruler my consonants, rear admiral of my haiku and field general of my canto. In a non-poof way of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 What great information Pete, I always wondered how they lumed Pam watches... Part 1 and Part 2 is a fabulous read, and everyone on the forum should read this if you love Pams like we do.. THanks of all the investigating and hard work! As I told you Pete, I have passed Part 1 and Part 2 to Andrew at Trusty... He was very appreciative and thanked me with open arms... Cheers, MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianton Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Another great thread, thanks for taking the time mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek001 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Fascinating, Pete. Thanks again, I have a new appreciation of Pam dials, remarkable work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raywj Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Just found this article. Interesting read directly related to lume! http://www.traserh3watches.com/u_dokument/news/1295968424_15fc378260337d9e00c2ec5e1870c663__iWwatch_February2010.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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