DamonHorse Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Hi This is my first post here despite being an active reader of the forum for the best part of a year. I am really wanting an AP ROO (black on black dial with bracelet strap - seeing as you asked! Ha) but I can't quite get my head around the prices of the current wave of reps. Over $500 for an asian 7750 rep that is going to need a dial replacement and in all honesty a new movement to allow the crown to be lowered just seems an awful lot when the same level of rep in other brands is at least $200 less. Maybe I'm missing something about what goes in to making one of these reps but it seems to me that perhaps the sticker price of a real one means that the rep dealers add some price to theirs? Anyway I look forward to your thoughts on this and hopefully being convinced to bite the bullet and buy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Try this. The gens start at $15k (even used). They are 100%. For 99.9999% of the population (including AP owners) it looks gen. I know. Now $500 doesn't sound so bad. And if you want to fix the crown positioning, etc. you are now looking at $5k. Actually the rep looks like a bargain to me (if the movement is durable of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Point well and truly taken Meister - and I want to be clear here that I see full value in reps and have a fair few already but I can't see how the AP reps come out at the price they do when compared to other brands reps from assumedly the same factories etc? As a percentage of gen price I agree they are good value but they're not up there with the best reps to my eyes - although they are more than good enough to fool any non watch geeks - but being one the imperfections annoy. I'm merely wondering why other reps with the same movement etc come out at closer to $300 than $500. I'm bound to get one though! But not until they sort the issue of the missing silver surround to the number markers. That's just too big an ommision for my $500 at the moment. On the durability issue the seconds at 12 I have been assured from a reliable watch guy that a service when you get it will sort out any issues you may get from it not being put together properly at source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerthat Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 If you examined one carefully you will note it is one of the most complex reps and made up of many more parts than other reps hence the higher price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Damon- You are heading down a slippery slope. It started with seconds at nine reps and 6 years and 6 frankens later I could have bought a couple of gens. But where would the fun be in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Well it does seems to be abit more complex to make as compared to say a Rolex Daytona which also uses the Asian 7750, i guess you really have to love the AP ROO to begin with, the quality and the details put into when i got one as well especially the hex screws, the whole case including the back was just amazing, in fact a friend of mine who works in an AD for multiple brands could not tell it was a rep when i told her so. But you may end up spending more :-P with a AP Band's strap (USD349) or like some has even gotten themselves a Gen's strap (USD700) to compliment the watch. Alternatively, you may consider the new AP Diver V3 which cost USD348 and is one the best AP rep till date which also has the rubber strap and buckle as per gen like. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 OK - point taken about it being a more complex rep. And Meister I am already tumbling head first down that slope! Haven't got any frankens yet but if you're thinking of selling then I'm all ears! I'd be really interested to see some pics of your creations for sure! There's something about having something no one else does that appeals to the big kid in me! Now if you happen to know where I can get a gen dial from then I'm all over getting a rep and starting off on the route to frankensanity!!! Kindred thanks a lot for your feedback on the ROO being a more complex rep to build hence the price - makes me start to consider one again! The rep does look amazing - just that silver numeral surround really bugs me. What ROO(s) did you go for? And I'll take a look at the diver right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 No worries, DamonHorse, we are all here learning and the passion for this hobby I currently have the Panda/Silver Theme and a Diver V3, and in the process of modding a Don Ramon De La Cruz, my watchsmith is having the entire watch case DLC including a spare bezel, which will then decide to use a gold or DLC one for the watch And haha, if you start changing the the dial to Gen, you might to go all the way as the datewheel area for the rep and gen are differently spaced, there might require a gen like movement change which now requiring you to realign the crown position, by then yup it should cost what Watchmeister has mentioned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Btw, the silver lining that you mentioned is regards to the Black theme? Yes, most that have one feels there isn't one on the rep but it really takes macro shots or certain light angles to tell fyi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 NIceely done kindred! There is apparently and ETA movement that can replicate the crown position and you are of course right the new dial should really have the gen date wheel and spacer - and then there is the reality of spending a few thousand - although i think more like £2k max - on something that won't recoup it. But once it's got you you're in aren't you! Your DLC De La Cruz - or DLC DLC! - sound awesome - look forward to some pics when it's done. As an aside how nice is this rep - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2mKjDc8fCc&feature=related - has the silver numeral surround but when I went on their site the gray dial shown there doesn't? The slightly misaligned screws on the bezel make me think that they aren't using a gen for the video but what do you think? If this rep with that dial is available then it's a no branier for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Kindred - that's good to know anout the black dial on the ROO - as it's the black on black that I really crave. So in normal wear it's not a major obvious point? very interesting........ It's my birthday soon so perhaps I should treat myself......... are you an AP peson through and through or do you rock other brands too? I started out a Panerai man and am now heading in to AP - but getting my first of a particular brand is always the most time consuming as I don't know a lot about the gens to start with so theres the research and then the going through all the different colour schemes - Panerai didn't do nearly as many as Ap!! ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Haha, yup that the route and having the crystal double ARed, and a couple more gen parts with the back caseback shaved and you have a almost gen lookalike with all the ROO tell tales eliminated.. And yeah, having the De La Cruz DLCed , just not sure to have any gold on the watch except the gold linings on the dial..will then maybe swap a gen black hornback with gold stitching.. Oh that is beautiful, was on my list as well, its the Grey Theme but do take note the Gen has titanium caseback while the rep is stainless steel, though you can't tell other then maybe the weight... any yes, there is actually silver lining on the rep's numerals and chronograph area as well.. Yes, ceaserwatch is showing a rep as well with the misalign bezel screws but in real life, you almost will not be able to see it speaking from my experience..the person is Tony which was pretty helpful and responsive and shipping was fast but he is not a TD with the forum so you might keep that in view but i have no problems dealing with him though... Edited May 16, 2012 by kindred666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Yeah, on the black theme, it seems more black on black on the linings.. Congrats on your birthday yeah, i will definitely treat myself one but mine is still way far ahead, haha a good excuse for my wife :-P Well, i started as a Rolex freak or to be exact a Daytona freak, had all the different theme but haha this AD girlfriend of mine shown me the AP and the rest was history, have been just crazy with them, in fact very tempted with the franken route just the my local watchsmith who does franken daytona wasn't too keen on working on ROOs though.. Yup, that's a crazy amount of different theme, different enough to have one for each days haha!!! We even have limited edition on some of the rep like the gens, haha, cool yeah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Here you go, http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/one-ap-roo-95034.html And here, you can clearly see that isn't any silver lining on the Black Theme, http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/ap-roo-black-72116.html Hope that helps... Edited May 16, 2012 by kindred666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Nice Kindred - so those pictures are of your collection! Good work indeed! The chronopassion does seem to have some silver around the numbers so perhaps that is the way for me to go. Where did you get that one from? Titanium is a good look so an AP in that would be very different to the steel ones I have. For the record I have a Panerai Luminor Marina (Manual wind), Panerai Daylight, Santos 100 Chrono, Rolex Sea Dweller Deepsea and Omega Ploprof. I always say the next one is going to be my last. But it never is................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Haha, yup totally agree on that now that you talking about that, it just doesn't seems to end!! maybe thats passion and hobby i guess.. Oh, those are not mine, i really wish it was, haha!!! For your info, titanium on the chronopassion is bead blasted, so it is known to scratch easily and unlike stainless steel where you might have a chance of polishing away the scratches, there are still no known fix on the bead blasted.. You can get it from any of the TDs, they all get from one source and just make sure is V5 i think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Ok thanks for the info - I have just re-read your previous messages and when you said there is no silver around the numbers on the black face - do you mean that there isn't on the gen either so this is accurate? Or that the rep doesn't have it but should? The chronopassion does have it so they can do it so I am hoping I'm wrong about it needing to be on the black on black dial so I can go ahead and order one!! I thought the dial was inaccurate on this point and this is basically the only thing stopping me.... Scratching on the titanium sounds like something I would do within like two minutes as I always manage to hit my watches on basically everything. So I am thinking black dial, stainless steel strap and case and I just hope you're going to tell me that this shouldn't have silver number surrounds!! What are you looking at getting next. I agree with you that it's a passion - and one that I've given in to and am at peace with!!! ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Here is the one I wear most frequently. It is actually a fantasy as I loved a specific dial and the Chronopassion case. And a standard Old School silver themes: My first franken from around 2008 or so: And here are a pair of standard MBW's sitting next to my first gen AP bought 20 years ago when i fell in love with the brand. Watches were alot smaller then . For me, AP was my introduction in the real world to haute horlogie (read as really expensive ) sports watches. I always loved the Genta design. By the way from all the pics it looks like the Diver rep is fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Yup, me too and thats the reason for me not getting the Chronopassion.. As for the Black Theme, some says there are silver lining on the gen but i personally don't think so. Here are some pictures of a Gen on macro close-up and i don't see any either, so i would say the rep Black Theme is pretty accurate on the dial. http://www.sg-roc.com/threads/48326-AP-ROO-Black-Themes And the Black Theme is good as the first AP as is most versatile be it casual or formal in wear. Watchmiester, that is beautiful, how i wish i could do a franken here.....sigh!! Edited May 16, 2012 by kindred666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Kindred - you're right there doesn't seem to be any silver there to my eyes. I am assuming that watch is a gen though.... I'm going to have to get one to be fair - and the black on black is the one that I badly want. Especially if there isn't really any silver missing from it! Ha Meister that first one is a real beauty - loving that face. What edition is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Meister - I know what you mean about the diver being a great rep - but I like a chrono and the ROO has to be the one for me I think. I do agree that the Diver is probably the best available rep though. V5 black dial ROO on stainless strap is the look i want. You know how it is when you get an idea in your head and it just won't budge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Kindred - btw - love that you have said black themes is a good FIRST AP. You already know that I won't be able to stop at one when I get it don't you! HA. You are so right too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Yup, that Black Theme is a gen all right, it a gen forum and look at the crown, it's lower than the 2 chrono pushers. And it is one of the most versatile ROO.. I was thinking of getting it too but refrain myself as its kinda too close in terms of the theme with mine Diver. That franken is a older version of ROO but is a fantasy model as its got the bead blasted titanium using the Chronopassion caseback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHorse Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 After I typed about whether it is a gen or not I read the threads and it became obvious it is a gen. I'm pretty sold on it now although I have been emailed from someone with a Montauk rep for sale and those boys are rare so I'll see what they want for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred666 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Haha, oh the Montauk, that's a beauty too and its a limited run of 100. Now, the headache begins, I am also contemplating on it too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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