Devedander Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) So I got an Ingeniur and noticed it has some dial chip issues. I put it in my watch box and contacted the dealer to see about what to do. Since it's in my box I didn't examine it much beyond the dial and noticed today a rather strange issue that on the case at both 6 and 12 there are odd dimples in the metal... it looks almost like what happens when you strike sheet metal from behind with a sharp object... This strikes me as odd becuase I don't see it pics of the gen (if this is accurate there are none: http://www.chronometrie.com/sihh2005/iwc/I...omaticfull.jpg), but they are so symmetrical and similar that it looks intentional... I think they are not supposed to be there but wanted to check... here are some pics: These are the 6 o clock side These are the 12 of clock side (you can see I even left the plastic on this side once I noticed the dial issue... Sorry for the bad focus, I will try to get some better ones but my cam always wants to focus on the shiny parts. It looks pretty small but it's very noticeable when it casts a shadow. Thanks for any input... Edited November 22, 2006 by Devedander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Hey Deve, I thought you knew of the potential flaws of this model, from the GB thread ? Anyway Jay is returning those for good ones... {by the way, was not your first Ingen returned due to customs charges...?} If so this is placing quite a bit of negative hole charges onto Jay, that totally wiped out his small profit long ago.... so please be aware... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) Hey Deve, I thought you knew of the potential flaws of this model, from the GB thread ? Anyway Jay is returning those for good ones... {by the way, was not your first Ingen returned due to customs charges...?} If so this is placing quite a bit of negative hole charges onto Jay, that totally wiped out his small profit long ago.... so please be aware... I was aware there were some potential flaws but may have missed something. That is why I want to check this out before reporting it to Jay as a problem. I think we decided that the dial flaws (despite being an know flaw in this particular rep) were not considered acceptable due to the nature of the group buy assurances. This seems like a rather significant flaw that I do not recall seeing mentioned before so I wanted to get my facts straight. I thought we agreed that simply being a group buy did not mean the acceptable level of quality was changed... And to be fair, I added to my Ingy order bringing the total of my order to around the $800 range, so while I can imagine profit margins on the Ingy are not high at this point, I am not trying to bring Jay into the red. In truth I was trying to guage if I could provide Jay with a more favorable alternative than replacing the whole watch (maybe a dial or just parts of the watch or something) however irregardless of this bumps issue I decided I would probably not do anyhone a favor by doing so and should just let Jay decide the best way to resolve this. Not trying to do anyone any unjustices or damage anyone unecessarily... just trying to get my facts straight so I don't mistakes where it counts. To be fair, I have recieved 4 watches (only part of my order) and all 4 had noteable issues. I have not mentioned any of them nor written any review because I want to give Jay the opportunity to do as he sees fit on his own with no pressure. I even went so far as to put all the watches directly into my watch box and have refrained from wearing any of them so that should Jay decide to swap any of them, I will not be returning a worn or used product. It's not an easy thing to do to get your order of reps what with all the excitement and then just put them in a box and not even wearh them out of respec to the dealers interest. I would hope that says something in that I am doing my best to show restraint and be fair to all concerned. Jay has been very pleasant and continues to be even in a situation where my patience would wear thin. I do not mean this as any negativity in his direction, it is legitimately just asking if it's normal or if it's something I should be aware of wand watching for. And no Ingy was returned, due to the complexitiy and number of watches in my order there has been a significant delay in getting my order shipped (this was not unreasonable all things considered and will be covered in my dealer review when all is said and done). This is my first Ingy and the customs issue you are referring to is that I got slapped with a $74 import tax. This did not result in a return or resend and will also be covered in my dealer review. I know I am a noob and I have made some very strongly stated opinion posts, but believe me I respect our dealers and the situation overall dealing with reps and am trying earnestly to be as fair and restrained as possible. I think you would be surprised the number of things I have NOT said vs the things I have brought up... Edited November 22, 2006 by Devedander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Wel well,... if you spent that much then by all means you deserve all the service and returns that you desire..... Thanks for filling me in... I feel responsible for Jay and vice versa, since I brought him into our fold.. and want to keep him around for group buys... hope you understand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 I wasn't versed on your past with Jay... but I definitely understand. From my dealings with him so far (maybe with Angel, who knows... them anyway) they are so nice to deal with I almost want to say "hey don't worry abou the watch problems"... but I can't quite do that I know a lot of noobs come along and generally screw things up right off the bat, the ironic thing is it seems almost like everyone gets a noob lashing at least once... just because... I would never take it personally. Now back to the question, is that how the rep is supposed to look or is that a flaw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 From my dealings with him so far (maybe with Angel, who knows... them anyway) they are so nice to deal with I almost want to say "hey don't worry abou the watch problems"... but I can't quite do that Now back to the question, is that how the rep is supposed to look or is that a flaw? Funny.... ........ Regarding the chips around the dial however,.. no not normal.. King said three out of ten come in with that flaw... depending how bad however determines everything.... if you have to have a mag glass to see it.. then well.... Personally however I am a perfectionist... and though I rarely bother dealers... I do perfect things best I can,... Just figured how to straighten some dial markers... {my worst pet peeve} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Good to know.. bad to find out... will have to keep that in mind if it's that prevelant... As for how bad... it's bad. The picks don't do it near justice. Let's just say I didn't notice them on the first day becuase I was only interested in dial checking... I saw them today when I was showing my friend my watch box... very poor lighting (5PM overcast and under some trees) the watch box was on top of my car and he was looking at one of my watches (not one of the ones being protected from Jay mind you) and out of the corner of my eye, from 5 feet away it jumped right at me... it's bad enough I almost thought it was an intentional part of the design that was MEANT to be seen. Yeah... anyhow thanks for anwering my question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavor flav Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 the bumps on the case are not normal....mine does not have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 the bumps on the case are not normal....mine does not have them. Thanks for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavor flav Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Thanks for the input! no problem...i'm assuming mine has no dial chips as well....i just looked under a loupe and cannot find any but i can't see where to look....where are the chips on yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) Mine has many issues all around the edges... it's probably got some level of dial problem over about 40% of the surface, although most of it is minor. If you can't see it in a loupe, I don't think you have it. See the attached for an example of some of my dial problems. In some cases the issue extends over 10+ minutes so it's noticeable. In the shot included (bad focus I know) you can see issues from around 8-12 minutes and then from 13-20 minutes (it actually continues sporadically all they way to 25 minutes but you can't see in this pic). I suggest under decent lighting look at the place where dial meets metal, look for an change in the color of the reflection of the minute ticks on the metal. BUT! If you are happy with your watch right now maybe it's best you DONT LOOK! UPDATE: Got some better pics of the dial.. had to resort to a flash but you know. Edited November 22, 2006 by Devedander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobiga Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Deve, sorry for hear that. I don't have any problems on case and on dial. If you did not see, have a look: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15187 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Thanks, yeah I saw your post when you got it up a while back... looks lke you have the 1 degree bezel missalignment but other than that the watch looks perfect... which is what I am hoping for in the end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobiga Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Thanks, yeah I saw your post when you got it up a while back... looks lke you have the 1 degree bezel missalignment but other than that the watch looks perfect... which is what I am hoping for in the end... Hey Deve, are you "ingenieur" or you bought an Ingenieur? Take care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Hey Deve, are you "ingenieur" or you bought an Ingenieur? Take care! I am blesses/cursed with an eye for detail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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