TWG 16610 Asian 21J conversion

[ubiquitous]

I received my new TWG 21J Asian 16610 Submariner this afternoon- This was my first transaction with Andrew, and the experience was perfect! Paid and purchased last Monday and 7 days to the day, the watch was at my door. Now, I don't typically get into modern Subs, but the price was right, I had some extra parts lying around, and I also wanted to see first hand the quality of these new generation of Subs; a friend of mine is interested in the LV and wants me to get one for him to convert to an ETA.

With this in mind, I went about disecting my new toy to see how easily a 2836-2 could be retrofitted. In addition, I added a genuine (slightly imperfect) insert to add to the fun. The insert is a 'factory second' (i.e. a discard), so the pearl is slightly off alignment to center.

Overall, the insert is still (in my opinion) an improvement over the replica insert, as the color on the genuine is different, the font is much nicer on the gen, and of course, the pearl itself is quite different.

Removal of the CN movement is straight forward; remove the case back, pull the stem, remove the case clamps, and uncase. Here's an in progress pic:

In this pic, I've just removed the datewheel overlay and reinstalled on my spare ETA. In addition, the dial feet had to be removed as they don't line up with the ETA post holes.

Next step is to apply the dial, and install the hands. These are Tudor hands meant for a 2824-2 (90/150/25). A perfect fit:

Casing is the opposite of uncasing. Insert the movement/dial/hands assembly into the case, add the movement ring, clamp, and insert the stem. Wrapping everything up, here's what I came away with:

Don't think I'll wear it much, but it was a fun little project. This one is about as straight forward as they get. If you have an extra ETA, a TWG 21J Asian Sub, some tools and some time, this one's worth doing; the ETA is a huge improvement over the CN movement, beats 28.800 a/h, and feels and sounds so much better (especially in winding). Start to finish, the swap took about an hour. Perhaps next will be a genuine crown and tube

If there are any questions regarding this swap, please post away!!

Regards,

R

[krustybrand]

Thanks for that, Ubi. I was always under the impression that the date would not line up, but now I have a YM that may see this same transplant.

[woody]

Hey Ubi,

On these Chinese copy subs, are the date mag really at 2.5X? that was always one of my big concerns. I have a ETA sub from Paul, crappy insert/pearl, and too large of a date mag in my estimation, so I was thinking about getting a chinese sub, and utilize the case entirely, and its dial, since the ETA subdial's 12 hour triangle marker is a tad misaligned, but keep the main ETA movement and its datewheel. Would I have any concerns with this project? Thanks for your feedback in advance.

[rbj69]

it appears your bezel insert is not seated correctly, u need to get it to sit inside the lip of the bezel edge so it is underneath it but flush , yours is sitting basically on top of it, so u need to mill the inside(underneath) of it down a bit to fit it properly, just some help for u and it appears this is the chinese regualar case, see the good ones that u hear about from watchmaster that i do , if u look around your edge of your crystal u see the white crystal gasket all the way around quite easily , on the genuine and the better replicas u dont have this flaw, so basically that is just a couple of things that is different than the more expensive one, not to mention the thickness of the case back and the heaviness and the stainless steel is even a different grade , so basically if u did the one u have done and didnt have a eta laying around and hands etc.and had to buy and install it really isnt much different in price as getting the better watch with the eta already in it, but in your case it was cheaper cause u had extra parts laying around from other things u took apart and experimented on lol

[ubiquitous]

Woody-

Date mag looks pretty good. I'm not used to modern, so my usual basis for such things is the huge 3x mag that the T-127 on the 1680 produces.

Personally, I think the dial on this version is quite nice, as is the case (though the rehaut could be a tad deeper). CG's, lugs, bezel, bracelet and SELs (actual 3 pc SELs fused together with hollow links) are all very nice on this new version Sub. You could re-use the old ETA from your ABAY Sub, but you may have to use the datewheel overlay from the new Sub, as the old CN had the datewheel and date window too far to the edge (this one sits more inboard like a TW Best and Genuine- note where the cyclops sits on the crystal).

Hope this helps...

R

[ubiquitous]

it appears your bezel insert is not seated correctly, u need to get it to sit inside the lip of the bezel edge so it is underneath it but flush , yours is sitting basically on top of it, so u need to mill the inside(underneath) of it down a bit to fit it properly, just some help for u and it appears this is the chinese regualar case, see the good ones that u hear about from watchmaster that i do , if u look around your edge of your crystal u see the white crystal gasket all the way around quite easily , on the genuine and the better replicas u dont have this flaw, so basically that is just a couple of things that is different than the more expensive one, not to mention the thickness of the case back and the heaviness and the stainless steel is even a different grade , so basically if u did the one u have done and didnt have a eta laying around and hands etc.and had to buy and install it really isnt much different in price as getting the better watch with the eta already in it, but in your case it was cheaper cause u had extra parts laying around from other things u took apart and experimented on lol

I haven't the foggiest, Joe. I just did this one for grins. The insert probably does need to be milled down more... I can't say I have the time to do it though. More than anything, I wanted to see the quality of these low buck Subs for my friend, who is after a cheap Sub. I don't have much interest in moderns, so this one will spend most of it's time sitting in a watch box. If I was into moderns, I'd definitely get the WM or MBW.

[rbj69]

i got ya, i just didnt want people to think it would be that much cheaper to get taht one for a 100 or 120 bucks and swap everything out parts and labor than getting one already with the eta and has some better stuff for just about the same money not much difference really in my eyes , but for u having the stuff already and experimental it didnt break the bank and not a bad idea at all and u did a good job on waht u did do , i hope u didnt take it as i was knocking u cause i wasnt at all , i was only letting people know the pros and cons of it thats all , thats what people expect from me to let them know the whole if i do know , later dude rbj69 (still havent successfully removed them damn screws yet, i have your bezel off though ) lol

[ubiquitous]

I'm not a mod-for-hire guy, but rather do jobs like this for friends for fun (read: free).

I purchased this watch with the intent of getting a better idea of quality, etc. and at $125.00, it was a reasonable route to try. I have some spare ETAs in my parts box, so no extra cost there. Only major investment was my time, which is a no cost 'charge' for friends. Since I have no inclination to wear a modern Sub, I'll probably just give this one to my pal; if it puts a smile on his face, then it was worth the time, and small cost of the watch

[docblackrock]

Nice job Randy, hope your friend likes it...

I had the exact same idea as I had couple of spare eta's lying around just begging for a new home inside Andrew's asian21j Yachtie (movt was buggered on arrival anyway). A quick visit to Joe and hopefully....

[cony212]

hi, I have 2 questions

How did you put the CN date wheel on the ETA? did you simply swap em over? and how did you fit the dial on since you cut off the feet?

Where would be a good place to find hands to fit the ETA? Ofrei?

Ok, so that's 3 questions

[ubiquitous]

Nice job Randy, hope your friend likes it...

I had the exact same idea as I had couple of spare eta's lying around just begging for a new home inside Andrew's asian21j Yachtie (movt was buggered on arrival anyway). A quick visit to Joe and hopefully....

Thanks, Doc!

The ETA will make for a nice improvement over the CN 'Rolex' Copy movement! Big difference in winding feel (both with the rotor or hand winding), as well as beat rate. Unfortunately, the CN hands won't fit the ETA, so that's something else to consider. But, if you already have these parts on hand, it's a fun project to undertake.

hi, I have 2 questions

How did you put the CN date wheel on the ETA? did you simply swap em over? and how did you fit the dial on since you cut off the feet?

Where would be a good place to find hands to fit the ETA? Ofrei?

Ok, so that's 3 questions

Here's the steps to swap the datewheel.

The datewheel overlay is a small, thin metal overlay that sits on top of the movement's original datewheel. It's glued down, and requires a bit of care to remove. I use a razor blade to carefully, and slowly wedge between the overlay and the datewheel- If I'm planning on re-using the movement that the overlay is being removed from, I'll take extra care or remove the entire datewheel prior to removal if possible. There are some cases where the overlay just cannot be removed due to the manner that it was glued down (i.e. there is adhesive at the edges where I'm not able to get the razor wedged in at all). Overall, it's generally not a difficult task to perform; just have patience and a steady hand. Once it's removed, just glue it onto the new movement's datewheel- Be careful to make sure all is aligned and you're set!

With regards to fitting the dial without dial feet- I simply glue the dial to a small movement spacer that sits on the rim/edge of the movement. This provides a bit of clearance between the dial and the movement to allow the datewheel to rotate properly, and it also provides some stability to the dial once the movement/dial/hands assembly is clamped down in the case.

As for finding hands to fit the ETA- I purchased a small lot of 4 sets of 2824-2 Tudor hands recently from my usual supplier. I've also purchased a couple of sets from eBay as well. Ofrei might have some in the proper size... Same with Borel. You'll want the 'mercedes' hands with 90/150/25 sizing.

Hope this helps!

Best,

R

[RWG Technical]

Excellent post and follow up questions and answers.

Great job.

Thanks for posting.

RG

[docblackrock]

How's the patient now Ubi? Ticker still ticking, no arrhythmias? You know the post-operative care is just as important as the surgery don't you....

[bruce79]

Great Post!!! My sd needs a new date wheel, soon as I source one, I think I'll give it a shot.

[ubiquitous]

The watch is ticking away just fine! As a matter of fact, I gave it to my friend last night, and he immediately strapped it to his wrist!