A Case in Point

[freddy333]

1. Did you use the crystal or replace it with a gen T21?

And if you used a gen, which did you use--flat-top or round-top T21?

2. How did you fit a gen Twinlock crown tube to the DW case?

My DW 6239 case came with an (incorrect) rep Triplock crown and tube, which I am going to replace with a gen Twinlock. However, the surface of the case around the tube hole is flat while the bottom of the gen case tube is convex, so the tube and case will not mate properly (at least, not completely). Ordinarily, I would just countersink the case hole. But the case was machined with a second, larger 'step' around the hole and, as it is, when I install the gen Twinlock tube into the case and then screw the Twinlock crown down, it just barely bottoms-out onto the end of the tube before it runs into the case. So if I countersink the hole, the case tube will then sit even lower down below the ridge of this outer 'step' and the crown will end up hitting the case before it bottoms-out or closes onto the case tube.

I do not have a good picture of the case, but you can see what I mean by comparing the mating flanges of both the DW Triplock case tube and the Twinlock gen

As you can see, the original DW tube is flat where it mates with the surface of the case (which is also flat). But the gen tube is convex shaped where it mates with the surface of the case. Since the crown already barely closes before it hits the case, I am not sure how to countersink the hole to properly fit the gen tube without placing the tube so low into the case that the crown will not be able to close all the way.

[Guest avitt]

I have always replaced the replica crystals with genuine, flat-top Tropic 21's.

With regard to the tube, one option would be to use a flat gasket between the tube and the case. (If the mating surfaces of the case/tube bother you, you could just slightly countersink the case hole, and then use a gasket).

[freddy333]

Thanks Avitt. That is what I was thinking.

[ubiquitous]

Flat T-21's are also what I usually install. If you have access to a domed T-21, that would go perfect with the 6239 look (I can probably source one...)

As for the tube- I'm with Avitt. Shim it with a gasket.

[HauteHippie]

Definitely sounds like the chamfered f.l.a.n.g.e. on the gen tube won't work, and as others have already said, you'll need a gasket. You should be able to find some thin neoprene that you could cut to the right size to do the trick.

Edit: Admin, why is the word f.l.a.n.g.e. being censored?

[freddy333]

Thanks Ubi. The crystal that came with the case looks like a domed T21, which is why I was wondering if maybe DW had switched to an improved rep crystal recently. Anyway, I ordered a gen NOS T21 yesterday and I will compare it to the handful of aftermarket (flat and beveled) T21s I already have when it arrives.

Did you countersink the (gasketed) tube on your vintage Daytonas?

[freddy333]

Definitely sounds like the chamfered f.l.a.n.g.e. on the gen tube won't work, and as others have already said, you'll need a gasket. You should be able to find some thin neoprene that you could cut to the right size to do the trick.

Edit: Admin, why is the word f.l.a.n.g.e. being censored?

I noticed that about 'f l a n g e' a couple of months ago.

For the gasket, I was thinking of just using the case gasket from a Triplock crown tube. Or are you talking about making the gasket out of harder material?

[ubiquitous]

Thanks Ubi. The crystal that came with the case looks like a domed T21, which is why I was wondering if maybe DW had switched to an improved rep crystal recently. Anyway, I ordered a gen NOS T21 yesterday and I will compare it to the handful of aftermarket (flat and beveled) T21s I already have when it arrives.

Did you countersink the (gasketed) tube on your vintage Daytonas?

Hmmmm... On mine, I had Ziggy tap my case while he was servicing my Valjoux 23. When I got the watch back, I simply threaded the tube in place- no countersinking.

[freddy333]

Hmmmm... On mine, I had Ziggy tap my case while he was servicing my Valjoux 23. When I got the watch back, I simply threaded the tube in place- no countersinking.

I already tapped the case (it needed it). And if the tube worked without countersinking for you, then it should work for me. Thanks.

I have another question that probably does not have a 'right' or 'wrong' answer, but I would like to get an opinion.

My 6239 DW case came with a '300 UNITS' metal bezel and DW is sending an additional pair of '200 UNITS' bezels (a metal one & a black one) and a 6241 case. So I will have 2 cases (6239 & 6241) and 3 bezels (1 '300' metal, 1 '200' metal & 1 '200' black plastic).

As far as I know, the gen 6239 was made with a metal bezel, but they left the factory with either a '200' or '300' UNITS scale (The Daytona book shows both). The 6241 differed (cosmetically) from the 6239 in that it has a black plastic bezel with either '200' or '300' units. But most of the 6239's & 6241's that came with Newman dials have '200' units bezels.

Which bezel would you fit to which case for a Newman dial (my dial is black, but I could not find 2 similar 6239s with black dials)?

[Guest avitt]

If you do chose to go with a domed crystal (which, as Ubi mentioned, would be appropriate on a 6239/6241), you should definitely upgrade to something with higher quality. The generic Tropic 21's that are sold by helfands are made in Germany, and are very nice.

[freddy333]

Avitt -- I think my T21's are from Helfands, but none of them look domed. At least not domed like the DW crystal, which looks almost like a superdome in comparison to the Helfand's T21's. But I find that there are often variations in crystals from the same seller.

[marsupilami]

david sells 6241 cases ? cases without heavy countersink around the pushers? so the

non screwdown pushers will fit perfectly ? or just

the regular 6263 case with 6241 engraved between the lugs ?

[freddy333]

6241 cases -- Yes, so he says, but I will know for certain in a few days when the next shipment arrives.

The 6239 case has all the proper markings between the lugs & inside the case back (though the lug markings look more like modern etchings than vintage engravings).

I do not know what you mean by 'heavy' countersink, but the holes for the pushers appear to have the correct (small) amount of countersinking

And note the shape & height of the crystal (the shipping plastic is still covering the top surface). As I mentioned earlier, it looks almost like a superdome.

As far as I know, all the vintage Daytonas (up to the 165xx model) used the same case. The 2 models you mentioned differ only in the components attached to and placed inside them.

Although I have only done a test fit of all the components, I saw no problems with the way anything (except for the crown tube, which has now been addressed by Avitt & Ubi) fits in the case. Though I have still not solved the question about how I am going to screw (tighten) the pushers down into the case. The DW's pushers, unlike those from Ofrei, do not have anything on the screw part of the assembly to grasp with a tool. So I am not sure how to tighten them down, at least without leaving plier marks or damaging something?

The non-screw pushers that came with the DW case fit fine. But I should mention that these pushers differ in construction from those I have used before from Ofrei

(This is a disassembled Ofrei pusher)

Note the splines around the bottom of the screw part in the photo, which can be used to grasp when screwing the part into the case. The DW pushers, which are constructed slightly differently (and are a minor pain to reassemble), lack these splines, so there is nothing to grasp with a tool.

In addition, the thread pitch in the case & on the DW pushers are a bit more coarse than the threading on the Ofrei parts or previous Daytona cases I have installed pushers into. So you have few options with the DW case other than to use the DW pushers. Except for the threading on the pushers (which is not very 'clean'), they seem to be of reasonable quality, similar to the Ofrei parts. But I disassembled and overhauled them anyway just to be safe (neither had any sealing grease on the internal rubber gaskets (they do now)).

[Guest avitt]

I understand marsupilami's concern...The pre-Oyster Daytonas did have a smaller recessed area around the pushers. This was enlarged on the Oyster cases, to accommodate the knurled screw-down piece. Here is a picture that I grabbed, which shows the difference:

...Also note that the case does not "bow out" in the area of the crown...This is another difference with the Oyster Daytonas, as they used 7mm Triplocks, which required more clearance from the bezel.

With regard to the pusher installation, I would recommend the following: clean up the threads with a tap, so that there will be minimal resistance when inserting the pushers. Apply a drop of Loctite, and insert the pushers (either hand tighten, or use padded needle-nose pliers). Allow to dry, and they should be quite secure.

[Guest avitt]

freddy333, I know that you like the domed shape of that crystal, but I'd highly recommend that you replace it with something of higher quality. In my experience, the DW default crystals are quite cheap and brittle, and will often form small fissures when the bezel is pressed on.

[freddy333]

Avitt -- Loctite was my plan, but I would really like to figure out the 'proper' method as I am sure there is one.

As for the case shape, now I see what he was referring to. This item from the 6239 chapter of Rolex Daytona - A Legend is Born may be helpful

Here is the DW

I am not quite sure the factory had a clear plan when they 'cut' this case, but it is what it is.

As for the DW crystal, I was not planning to use it. I just wanted to get opinions on the shape since all of my generic crystals (from Helfands) were either flat or flat with a slight bevel. But I think you and Ubi already answered this question as, based on your collective recommendations, I am awaiting a NOS gen T21 from Astorlive.