Lousy Date Image On Auto Pannies

[shultz]

Hi all,

First: Of course I ordered the new Cyclops to improve my pannie reps. And I am hopeful that the date image problem will be completely solved by adding the new 2893-2 date wheel. But this just belongs to my pam029.

Regarding to the other PAM reps especially the asian automatics and asian 7750s I think the bad date magnification isn’t depending just on the Cyclops. It rather seems to be a problem of the depth of the date wheel. For example I am owning a PAM050 and a PAM092 Arktos. Both (rep) watches are damn close to the real deal and are great keeping time although both have got asian movements. Furthermore both are waterproof (tested).

But that lousy date image is driving me crazy . It is not so much the date fond as the whole date image: There is no clear image, it is too small and couldn’t be read in most ankles because it is distorted and shows reflections. I can just assume that a replacement of the old Cyclops by the new one will improve the image it a little but the depth of the date wheel seems to be the real cause.

I am thinking about two solutions:

Firstly: Purchasing and assembling a swiss 7750. The date wheel is actually closer to the dial. But of course this will be the most expensive choice.

Secondly: May be there is a chance to heighten up the date wheel of the asian 7750 e.g. by gluing an overlay on to the asian’s date wheel stock? By comparing both (naked) mvts. I can see that both (swiss and asian) do have the same height and diameter. But it is obviously that the date wheel “sits” deeper in the asian mvt. Because of this I assume the dial should also fit after gluing an overlay on to the date wheel stock. Maybe I am wrong?

Is anybody on board who could share his experiences? I do not mean throwing the damn watch into the garbage can and purchasing a non-date watch…

I would be happy for an idea. I know I am not alone with that problem (you’ll find my thread over on TRC, too). Please don’t refer me to The Zigmeister ‘cause he isn’t available ‘til late summer and I won’t take his well deserved time.

Thanks in advance and all the best

Frank

[dachshund]

Shultz

I don't think what you are suggesting is going to solve your problem.

If I understand correctly, you want to move the date wheel closer to the face of the dial, moving the date wheel closer to the face of the dial is going to weaken the image, not make it larger.

[sssurfer]

Shultz,

what dachshund said is absolutely correct, but the new cyclops should more-than-compensate for the loss in magnification that you will suffer by taking the datewheel a little closer to the dial.

An even better solution would be by putting a small pre-magnifier lens just below the date window and above the datewheel, between them. ETA 2893 uses such a solution, and I saw it even on some power reserve reps, like the 090 from TTK.

For a watch that you really love, you might want to get a rep with that lens, and to sacrify its date magnification in order to get that lens out. Then apply it to your other watch.

Unsure on how to actually do it, though, and if there is clearance enough between the dial and the datewheel in your watch.

[shultz]

Hi dachshund

and Hi Marco,

Thanks for your input. You are right: By the meantime I read it in another thread (don't ask me if TRC, old or new RWG): Bigger distance between lens and date wheel makes a better image than the other way round. Just my mistake. Therefore it doesn't make a sense to glue an overlay on to the date wheel. You're right, dachshund.

Marco:

As you know I am in for two cyclops. Do you think the replacement of the old lens for the new one will satisfy me especially on the 7750 models? I mean without putting an additional lens between the cyclops and the date wheel (it that be understood correctly)?

Thanks again

Cheers

[sssurfer]

Marco:

As you know I am in for two cyclops. Do you think the replacement of the old lens for the new one will satisfy me especially on the 7750 models? I mean without putting an additional lens between the cyclops and the date wheel (it that be understood correctly)?

You understood perfectly, Frank. The additional lens I told about was to be placed into the date window of the dial, or just below it, between the date window and the datewheel.

While I still have no news from Finepics (our front-end man with the company) about the cyclops, our highest hope and intention is that they will be able to improve the date magnification on almost all models. As far as I remember from my lost posts on RWG1, PAMs with 7750 have quite a good distance between the datewheel and the crystal (and therefore between the datewheel and the cyclops too), so your magnification should improve significantly.

Besides of that, the new cyclopses are sapphire, not mineral glass like the rep cyclopses, so they are supposed to be crystal clear and to improve the overall date visibility as well.

On the other hand, even the new cyclops will not be able to correct issues like a poor visibility of the numbers when viewed by ankles because of a datewheel placed far below the date window.

I suggest that you just verify by your own eyes the results of the new cyclopses before applying any modifications on your 050 and Arktos.

In order to reduce reflections, you may also want to consider applying AR coating after placing the new cyclops, so to have both the crystal and the cyclops AR coated. I'll have Finepics doing exactly it on my 028.

I am also surprised that you are not satisfied with the date of your 050. I also own a 050, and it has the best date font and date visibility of all my PAM reps.

All the best,

:sss:

[shultz]

Hi Marco,

thanks a lot for informing me that completely. I will wait for my two new cyclops and will check out th eimprovement after installing them. You are right: The date image on the 050 is quite better as on the 092. But as you know we watch collectors will never be satisfied... Always hunting for the ultimate improvement.

All the best, I am looking forward to receiving th new lenses and I am getting exitited

Frank

[r11co]

The additional lens on the date window is normally incorporated as part of the watch dial. I haven't taken my 090 apart to figure out how it is attached, but I previously had an Oris TT1 rep which had a date magifier 'built in' to the dial.

It may be possible to fit one as an afterthought, or alternatively replace the complete dial with one that has it...

[shultz]

@ r11co:

Thanks for that advise. I'll assemble the new cyclops first and see how the improvement is. Building an additional lens in to the dial would be a special job I am afraid. Furthermore I will need a fitting lens for that. I guess it will not be that easy to figure out which part will fit...

[Watchmeister]

The watchmen recommend doing nothing until you get your cyclops. With a little bit of luck the results on a 2893 GMTshould be posted soon.

[Finepics]

Just a word of caution about any of the newer asian movt subs and Arktos (not the 7750 versions but the cheaper 21j asian movts) - you will not be able to fit a new cyclops to these watches as they are a part of the crystal and cannot be removed.

Fitting a genuine Swiss movt will ne cure the problem either as certain parts need to ne transferred from the asian movt which would include any spacer rings which allow certain clearances and also allow the stem to line up with the movt and stem tube - so this mught be why the date is lowered. The new cyclops are made of sapphire which optically matches the crystal (the existing ones are just glass) and an AR coat will make a big difference

[sssurfer]

Just a word of caution about any of the newer asian movt subs and Arktos (not the 7750 versions but the cheaper 21j asian movts) - you will not be able to fit a new cyclops to these watches as they are a part of the crystal and cannot be removed.

I am going to replace the whole crystal on any watch whose old cyclops should reveal unremovable.

[shultz]

Just a word of caution about any of the newer asian movt subs and Arktos (not the 7750 versions but the cheaper 21j asian movts) - you will not be able to fit a new cyclops to these watches as they are a part of the crystal and cannot be removed.

Fitting a genuine Swiss movt will ne cure the problem either as certain parts need to ne transferred from the asian movt which would include any spacer rings which allow certain clearances and also allow the stem to line up with the movt and stem tube - so this mught be why the date is lowered. The new cyclops are made of sapphire which optically matches the crystal (the existing ones are just glass) and an AR coat will make a big difference

Hi Mark,

that's a truly important advice. Thank's a lot for that. Do you know if the dial and especially the hands (diameter of the tubers) will fit an asian 7750 (b1)? I am asking because I am owning an asian (21j.) 092 which looks better (bezel and especially black hands are more accurate) and an asian 7750 which has got the better quality.

Maybe I'll make one really nice watch from both.

I would be happy for a furher input

Cheers, Frank