My new watch seems to tick slower than my others.

[894tom]

Ok...I know I am not a dog, or some other scientific listening devise, but I really can tell the differnce in the way my watches tick. As many of the regular reader have heard, I have an asian copy 6497, a Swiss copy 6497, and a Davidsen 6497 all enclosed in a standard 44mm Pam case. Looking at the movements, the average person would think they should all sound the same and operate at the same speed. They all appear to have the same parts...the Swiss copy does have different shaped crown wheels, rachet wheel, and swan neck though. They absolutely don't (at least to my dog licensed scientifically proven hearing..LOL) sound like they operate at the same speed. Is this possible? When I watch the balance wheel..the Asian copy appears to be ossilating much faster. The Swiss copy is very close to it, however it seems a little slower. Both tick very fast and have a light tinny light feel to the ticking sound. Davidsen's 6497 appears to tick much slower, but sounds sure of its self with a even (tick tick as apposed to tick tack tick ) clean sharp ticking sound. His movement also winds very nicely, which is very similar (but better in feel) to my Asian Copy. Is this because the movement is an ETA or just because it's been serviced? All three watches keep good time. (honestly, I have not had the chance to check the Davidsen for accuracy because the base model has no seconds hand, but it has kept good time for the last 3 days while in my possession.) Can anybody give me any validation, or should I just take them all to my local watch shop and run em on the ole computer to get their timing ie 18,800 21,000 17,500? Which speed movement should last longer given the same amount of wrist time?

[RWG Technical]

It's either 18,000 or 21,600.

Check out the balance wheels, smaller one is faster, larger one is slower. You should be able to note the difference between the balances, this will confirm your ticking estimate.

RG

[Daytona4me]

Check out the balance wheels, smaller one is faster, larger one is slower. You should be able to note the difference between the balances, this will confirm your ticking estimate.

RG

I know this is true on the 6497 but The Zigmeister, do you find that this is true with other movements, say... a 7750 for example?

Thanks,

[894tom]

It's either 18,000 or 21,600.

Check out the balance wheels, smaller one is faster, larger one is slower. You should be able to note the difference between the balances, this will confirm your ticking estimate.

RG

Wow!!!!....the details.....its all in the details.......sure enough, the Davidsen has the larger balance wheel. Now, does the speed of the ossilation play a differnce in the long term durability of the watch? One might assume there is less travel or friction metal to synth ruby contact with the slower motion. This should result in better long term life span.

Ok... how about the tinny sound..ie tick tack tick tack...? instead of the confident tick tick tick sound Davidsens movement is giving off? Is that because the Asian copy needs to be oiled and cleaned? Again, both seem to keep good time. The asian copy has been recently tuned/adjusted to + 7secs a day by my local watch repairman after an unexpected opps I did . He said it was clean and needed no work......but this is the same guy who didn't know what a 6497 movement was ....lol .

Ok, put it bluntly like this, did I get a cheap Asian copy of a cleaned lubed 6497 movement from Davidsen or a better quality low end lubed genuine Swiss ETA movement?

No matter what, I like the overall sound of the Davidsen. Just sounds so much more confident.

Edited November 26, 2007 by 894tom

[RWG Technical]

I know this is true on the 6497 but ziggy, do you find that this is true with other movements, say... a 7750 for example?

Thanks,

Size and speed go hand in hand with a balance wheel.

The difference between a 21,600 and a 28,000 wheel is slight, and not easy to discern. A Zenith El Primero wheel at 36,000 is quite small.

RG

[RWG Technical]

Wow!!!!....the details.....its all in the details.......sure enough, the Davidsen has the larger balance wheel. Now, does the speed of the ossilation play a differnce in the long term durability of the watch? One might assume there is less travel or friction metal to synth ruby contact with the slower motion. This should result in better long term life span.

Ok... how about the tinny sound..ie tick tack tick tack...? instead of the confident tick tick tick sound Davidsens movement is giving off? Is that because the Asian copy needs to be oiled and cleaned? Again, both seem to keep good time. The asian copy has been recently tuned/adjusted to + 7secs a day by my local watch repairman after an unexpected opps I did . He said it was clean and needed no work......but this is the same guy who didn't know what a 6497 movement was ....lol .

Ok, put it bluntly like this, did I get a cheap Asian copy of a cleaned lubed 6497 movement from Davidsen or a better quality low end lubed genuine Swiss ETA movement?

No matter what, I like the overall sound of the Davidsen. Just sounds so much more confident.

Speed does not affect life, as long as you clean and oil the movement on a regular basis. Speed does affect how long the movement runs between windings...faster, shorter running...

The difference in sound could be many things, what your hearing is the escape hitting the pallet stones. If the beat is out it could be a bit noisier, or it could just be the way it is with a particular movement. Oiling doesn't normally make a big difference in sound.

RG

[andreww]

While on this topic, am I correct in assuming that a watch that has a beat rate of 21,600 bph ticks three times per second, whilst a watch that beats at 28,800 bph ticks four times per second? Obviously, if you do the math, it would be 6 and 8 beats per second, but does it take two beats to constitute one tick?

[894tom]

informative threac...always learn something.

[RWG Technical]

While on this topic, am I correct in assuming that a watch that has a beat rate of 21,600 bph ticks three times per second, whilst a watch that beats at 28,800 bph ticks four times per second? Obviously, if you do the math, it would be 6 and 8 beats per second, but does it take two beats to constitute one tick?

21,600 is 6 ticks and tocks per second, 28,800 is 8 ticks and tocks per second.

The balance goes from neutral, 270 degrees CW, stops, goes back to neutral, swings 270 degrees CCW, stops, and goes back to neutral. This consititues a tic and toc, at 21,600 you have 6 of these per second...on a El Primero, you have 10 of these per second.

RG

[andreww]

Does this mean that the second hand actually makes 6 or 8 movements per second? In other words does a tick and a tock constitute one or two movements of the second hand?

[RWG Technical]

I consider a "Tic" to be one move of the hand, and a "Toc" to be one move also...

RG

[Pugwash]

Does this mean that the second hand actually makes 6 or 8 movements per second? In other words does a tick and a tock constitute one or two movements of the second hand?

You can see the number of second hand movements here:

On a non-chrono, those beats are a more evenly spaced 8-per-second.

[andreww]

Thats what I was looking for Pug, thanks. Actually this question was based upon my recollection of this photo. I had remembered it as 4 tick per second, but on close examination I can see 4 large ticks and 4 small tocks

[NRG]

You'll find watch movements are also listed in Hz or Cycles per second. So what The Zigmeister described above (cw then anti-cw rotation of the balance wheel) is one cycle or Hz. So 28800 is a 4 Hz movement and 21600 is 3Hz, yet the second had moves 8 and 6 times a second respectively...