peepshow Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 On the issue of the poll, I'd take the rep and cash any day. Why spend more for something just because it's 'gen', than something which will do the exact same thing: Tell the time. Why not just use your cell phone or a $20 quartz Timex, then? We all know that people here are watch fans, first and foremost, rep collectors 2nd. The quality of my 210 is leaps and bounds past any rep I've owned. Is it worth the 10x price difference? No, but then we're back to the "all luxury goods are overpriced for what they are" discussion. I'll stand by what I said in my earlier post. My rep collection has enough "variety" for me now. So from this point, I'll gladly take 1 used gen over 4-5 modified reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manitou Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 (edited) Why not just use your cell phone or a $20 quartz Timex, then? We all know that people here are watch fans, first and foremost, rep collectors 2nd. The quality of my 210 is leaps and bounds past any rep I've owned. Is it worth the 10x price difference? No, but then we're back to the "all luxury goods are overpriced for what they are" discussion. I'll stand by what I said in my earlier post. My rep collection has enough "variety" for me now. So from this point, I'll gladly take 1 used gen over 4-5 modified reps. Well I would argue that many brands ARE worth their "overprice", or at least close to. Brands such as AP, Urban, Urwerk, Richard Mille and other in the same league. Brands where innovation, craftsmanship and uniqueness is held high. So I tend to agree with you, but... Brands like Panerai, Rolex, Bell & Ross and other "similar" brands, are definitely not worth their pricetag, taking assembly quality, finish and lack of uniqueness into consideration. In those cases you pay more for a fashion statement/trend than craftsmanship. So in the case of your 210; yes it's nicer that the reps, but vastly overpriced. It's almost like the fairytale of the naked emperor or the problems surrounding all artificially inflated markets. Someone just needs to cry wolf loud enough, and it can all collapse in a split second. Or if we get a huge global recession on our hands and all of a sudden everybody wants to sell their 210s? Then prices will drop like there was no tomorrow. But rare APs and one-offs will be the last ones to lose their value.... A Luminor Marina was 5-600 dollars when it hit the market some 15 years ago. THAT + inflation is the actualy value of that watch... I'd much rather pay 100.000 dollars for a RM than 10.000 dollars for a Unitas based Panerai (allthough I never did own a RM but several of the latter haha). IN MY FACE! Edited March 12, 2008 by Manitou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 What good is uniqueness if I don't like the unique design? I didn't buy my Panerai because of any horological innovation (if I wanted that, I'd buy a Seiko Spring Drive), nor did I buy it as an investment. I bought it because it was a solid "luxury" timepiece that I enjoyed the styling of. The exact reason I'll buy a gen Luminor within the next year or two. I agree with you about innovation being a big part of the draw, but I'd prefer a Damasko which uses technical innovation in the case construction and design and a standard "chronometer grade" ETA 7750 for $2250 over a $10K AP ROO. I coulnd't afford the AP even if I *did* like the styling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manitou Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 What good is uniqueness if I don't like the unique design? Oh, dont get me wrong, buying with the heart is the right thing to do. I was being objective, looking at the actualy production value of the product - not the subjective opinion of style and beauty. All the gens I've owned over time, I bought from your perspective as well - not because they had high production value. I would just argue that after having been introduced to this rep scene, I would feel a little rediculed, spending 10.000 dollars on a PAM 127 (which I HAVE done - I've had 3), when I have almost the same for 350. It's a little like buying a car in Denmark (where I'm from), and paying 180+% in taxes. On the other hand, buying an AP ROO rep, I would NOT feel like I had the real thing, because the finish, feeling and detailing of the original (given you like the style) are MILES from a gen. In many cases you dont pay for the product, you pay for maintenence - regardless of this maintenence being fancy offices and shops around the world, or the maintenence of a country with a high burn-rate (as is the case in Denmark with our crazy taxes). It's the funding of burn-rate no matter how you see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Shoutout to you my friend!!! How's the project going??? Hope the family are not driving you nuts! hola, amigo It's going well, thanks, I've been able to get some decent ideas down, it's just a case of submitting them for selection Well, we went to the solicitor, so hopefully, all will be well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manitou Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 The exact reason I'll buy a gen Luminor within the next year or two. Enjoy it when you get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Why not just use your cell phone I like wearing a watch. or a $20 quartz Timex, then? They don't have the aesthetic which I like. I like how particular watches look, I just don't like what they cost, and am not prepared to pay an artificially inflated pricetag, simply because said watch is 'popular'. We all know that people here are watch fans, first and foremost, rep collectors 2nd. The quality of my 210 is leaps and bounds past any rep I've owned. Is it worth the 10x price difference? No, but then we're back to the "all luxury goods are overpriced for what they are" discussion. Precicely. That's why I find gen prices unjustifiable. I'll stand by what I said in my earlier post. My rep collection has enough "variety" for me now. So from this point, I'll gladly take 1 used gen over 4-5 modified reps. At the end of the day though, what does that gen actually provide that the reps do not? A guarantee? The ability to say 'this is real..." to someone? Perceived better quality in construction? Those things aren't important to me, hense why I'll stand by my previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manitou Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Since in the end, it's about passion; say you had a crush on Scarlett Johansson, would you rather be with her (who probably has rather high maintenence), or with someone who looked like her but wasn't quite like her (given you like scarlett Johansson - otherwise >insert hottie of choice<)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Since in the end, it's about passion; say you had a crush on Scarlett Johansson, would you rather be with her (who probably has rather high maintenence), or with someone who looked like her but wasn't quite like her (given you like scarlett Johansson - otherwise >insert hottie of choice<)? Interesting twist to the issue That would depend on if someone actually personally knew Ms Johansson, or simply 'had a crush' on her image (as seen in the media). If someone were to know her personally, then indeed, a 'lookalike' would not be in anyway satisfactory, as they would know that it was not Ms Johansson, as the personality would be completely different. If, however, someone did not know her personally, then a 'lookalike', would likely be quite sufficient for their 'requirements' (although to be honest, dating someone just because they happen to look like someone else, would be pretty shallow ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Time Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Before I purchased any reps, I have always bought gens, I have 6 gens right now. (Breitling,rolex) and I will say that they are a little nicer finished than the reps. BUT are they 10,000.00+ nicer?? Very hard to say. As far as investment goes, well look at this: Gen Rolex SS Daytona, msrp, 8500.00, sells for 11,000.00, service is aprox 500.00 every 2 years, put a nick in it and knock off 3000.00, something goes wrong and you are looking at 1200.00+ for repair. Now with such a watch you must insure it, which means you need a separate policy for it as homeowners will only cover 1500.00 max for jewlery,guns,watches ect. So tack on a 500.00 a year premium for that baby. Rep Rolex Daytona, maybe 300.00 bucks, service,nicks, lose it....who cares, you get another. Sell it?? heck post it up and in 5 min its gone. And heres another point, what do you think really nice reps will start selling for in they really start cracking down on the rep trade?? I will bet you can double or triple the prices right now. You also have a much larger market to sell to as most anyone can afford to buy a nice rep. Plus I can have 20+ watches if I want for the price on 1 gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 TeeJay, how far north of London are you? I'm in London until the 20th, I'd love to continue this discussion over a pint... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 TeeJay, how far north of London are you? I'm in London until the 20th, I'd love to continue this discussion over a pint... About 2 hours north Would be great, but I'm pretty tied up with things for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 LOL, it was worth a shot. As for what I get with the gen over the reps -- Yes, build quality is one thing, certainly. Another is that it signifies accomplishment in my personal and professional life for me. I'm proud of being in a situation where I can afford to splurge on expensive watches. If that makes me shallow, I can live with that. Don't misunderstand, we're not rich. My wife and I have had to work hard to get to where we are. Indulging in something that we both enjoy is a small reward for all that work. Believe me, if I wanted to buy a gen in order to flaunt it or have it recognized I sure wouldn't buy Panerais! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 LOL, it was worth a shot. As for what I get with the gen over the reps -- Yes, build quality is one thing, certainly. Another is that it signifies accomplishment in my personal and professional life for me. I'm proud of being in a situation where I can afford to splurge on expensive watches. If that makes me shallow, I can live with that. Don't misunderstand, we're not rich. My wife and I have had to work hard to get to where we are. Indulging in something that we both enjoy is a small reward for all that work. Believe me, if I wanted to buy a gen in order to flaunt it or have it recognized I sure wouldn't buy Panerais! I understand what you mean, and I wouldn't go so far as to say that was shallow, afterall, everyone deserves to treat themselves for their hard work. We all do it in different ways, and some cost more than others That's the truth I've only ever had one friend comment on a PAM I was wearing, everything else, has always slid 'under the radar'. I think, it was a case that she'd never seen one, so was genuinely interested in what it was (as a watch), rather than what it was (as a brand). None of my other watches have attracted any interest, unless it was a subject already under discussion. I think that's one of the things I like most about PAMs: The obscurity. Very few people actually know what they are, so they just go un-noticed and un-challenged Wear a Rolex however, and everyone and their mum wants to know if it's real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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