Pilots come forward

[TeeJay]

I'm guessing there are a few members here who are pilots in their own right. I have a friend who is a commercial pilot for BA, although my own interests in aviation have always laid elsewhere.

Helicopters.

One of my ambitions is to earn a pilots licence for flying helicoptors. One of my 'if I won the lottery dreams', was to buy the filming helicopter from Airwolf, but, I've not yet won the lottery, and, found out some time back that the actual helicopter used, wound up as an air ambulance in Germany, and crashed following a lightning strike, so that's pretty much 'crossed off the list'.

Something I've heard, and I wondered if any pilots could confirm, is the level of coordination required to pilot a helicopter. I've heard, that if someone can rub their stomach and pat their head, while 'cycling' with their feet, then they potentially have the coordination required (albeit with training ) Is this correct? If anyone has any experience flying either helicopters or fixed wing, which would they say is the easiest? Would it be better to start learning in a helicopter so all the skills are learned from the beginning, or start on fixed wing and then 'move across'?

Just a curiousity, but thanks in advance

[rek001]

Paging Dr. Narikaa...

[b16a2]

I have flown fixed wing, but not rotary. Flying itself is relatively easy. I have only ever done flying in the military scenario, not much civvie stuff. There is a lot to take onboard, but its all about a learning curve. If you can fly fixed wing, you can fly rotary and vice versa. I wouldn't say one is harder, just that they are both different.

For each there are things that are easier, and things that are harder. Obviously one of the hardest things in rotary is to get the thing to hover, but it is comparible to riding a bike, once it clicks, you can do it. Flying can sometimes feel unnatural to people at first, but it's not something that should put you off. If it is something that you have a passion for, then go for it.

My recommendation would be to go and have a few trial lessons, in both fixed wing and rotary, and see what you like best. I have always fallen on the side of fixed wing, whilst rotary is great fun at low level, you can have a lot of fun flying fixed wing at higher altitudes, more specifically aerobatics.

[TeeJay]

I have flown fixed wing, but not rotary. Flying itself is relatively easy. I have only ever done flying in the military scenario, not much civvie stuff. There is a lot to take onboard, but its all about a learning curve. If you can fly fixed wing, you can fly rotary and vice versa. I wouldn't say one is harder, just that they are both different.

For each there are things that are easier, and things that are harder. Obviously one of the hardest things in rotary is to get the thing to hover, but it is comparible to riding a bike, once it clicks, you can do it. Flying can sometimes feel unnatural to people at first, but it's not something that should put you off. If it is something that you have a passion for, then go for it.

My recommendation would be to go and have a few trial lessons, in both fixed wing and rotary, and see what you like best. I have always fallen on the side of fixed wing, whilst rotary is great fun at low level, you can have a lot of fun flying fixed wing at higher altitudes, more specifically aerobatics.

Thanks, that's a really informative and usefull reply I wondered if it might have been harder for a helicopter, due to having to use the foot pedals while in flight (I understand that in a plane, foot pedals are only used for trafficking on the ground... is this right?) I guess I've just always wanted to fly, but not enough to make a career of it as my friend did. Of course, it's hardly the cheapest of hobbies, so I figured that if I was to take some lessons, I'd only be able to afford to pay for the one set (plane or helicopter) so just wanted to be sure I was definitely making the right choice, or, alternatively, not biting off more than I can chew (for the record, I can do the afore mentioned coordination, so am hoping I would be able to learn how to fly a helicopter)

Thanks again

[narikaa]

Fixed wing/ Rotary

IMHO no comparison

Fixed wing straight and level, let go the controls...nada...play with your maps, have a coffee

Rotary straight and level, let go the controls....find religion

Jokes aside

The commonality is the mechanics of flying, the ground school stuff, etc

The physical 'doing it' is quite different...if youre intent on both, do helos first, then fixed wing at your leisure afterwards as habitually acquired incorrect control inputs applied to a light helicopter (esp Robinsons) at tyro level aint funny.

Coordination, yes theyre a handfull, but most can cope eventually, the less your coordination etc just the more it costs (its all about hours!). By way of incouragement, I got a mate who'd never been in a helo before to hold a hover after just 20mins of guidance (he did need a strong drink afterwards tho ;-) ).

.

[b16a2]

I understand that in a plane, foot pedals are only used for trafficking on the ground... is this right?

If you're flying a fast jet....yes...if you're flying a prop aircraft then no. You need the foot pedals to balance the aircraft when at full power ( I won't go into it too much but the spiralling effect of the prop wash over the airframe, hitting the rudder causes it to kick left generally)

Also to keep an aircraft balanced in a turn, you are required to use your feet on the rudder pedals.

Both rotary and fixed wing have their pro's and con's. For me fixed wing is so much more fun due to the amount of freedom, and fun you can have doing aerobatics, that for me is what flying i all about. However, if you have no interest in aerobatics, and want to fly around for the view, and just to get airbourne, rotary may be the better choice. This is just my view, and there are many other things to take into consideration.

Try both, then make a decision, not wanting to be biased or anthing...... GO FIXED WING

Here's a few pics to wet your appetite;

Flying in formation with a Grob Tutor;

In the back of a Sea King Mk4, really miss that watch!

[narikaa]

Here we go

Fixed wing , a very convenient way to get between two places

neither of which you want to be at it the first place

.

[narikaa]

Here we go

Fixed wing , a very convenient way to get between two places

neither of which you want to be at in the first place

.

[TeeJay]

Fixed wing/ Rotary

IMHO no comparison

Fixed wing straight and level, let go the controls...nada...play with your maps, have a coffee

Rotary straight and level, let go the controls....find religion

Jokes aside

The commonality is the mechanics of flying, the ground school stuff, etc

The physical 'doing it' is quite different...if youre intent on both, do helos first, then fixed wing at your leisure afterwards as habitually acquired incorrect control inputs applied to a light helicopter (esp Robinsons) at tyro level aint funny.

Coordination, yes theyre a handfull, but most can cope eventually, the less your coordination etc just the more it costs (its all about hours!). By way of incouragement, I got a mate who'd never been in a helo before to hold a hover after just 20mins of guidance (he did need a strong drink afterwards tho ;-) ).

.

Thanks, that definitely clears up a few of my questions. I figure I'll aim for the helicoptor licence first (after all, that's the goal ) and then maybe go to fixed wing if I really want to. I guess it'll be like with driving, you don't need to own the vehicle just to hold the licence

If you're flying a fast jet....yes...if you're flying a prop aircraft then no. You need the foot pedals to balance the aircraft when at full power ( I won't go into it too much but the spiralling effect of the prop wash over the airframe, hitting the rudder causes it to kick left generally)

Ahh, do you mean making the airframe rotate along the axis of the rotor (counter/with the prop)

Also to keep an aircraft balanced in a turn, you are required to use your feet on the rudder pedals.

Both rotary and fixed wing have their pro's and con's. For me fixed wing is so much more fun due to the amount of freedom, and fun you can have doing aerobatics, that for me is what flying i all about. However, if you have no interest in aerobatics, and want to fly around for the view, and just to get airbourne, rotary may be the better choice. This is just my view, and there are many other things to take into consideration.

Try both, then make a decision, not wanting to be biased or anthing...... GO FIXED WING

Here's a few pics to wet your appetite;

Flying in formation with a Grob Tutor;

In the back of a Sea King Mk4, really miss that watch!

Thanks for the advice and the photos Re the watch, rep or gen?

[piratedzeus]

Ahhh

One of my dreams too. I have the chance to get my license for that during university for free(well only the aircrafts&teachers are free), i have to work 300 hours / year for that at no payments though at that airport though.

[b16a2]

Ahh, do you mean making the airframe rotate along the axis of the rotor (counter/with the prop)

It makes the aircraft yaw, so on the vertical axis, attached picture below. If you imagine the corkscrew of the prop wash sprialling then hitting the rudder pushing it sideways.

Also when you turn (roll aircraft left for example) the right hand wing that is now high creates more drag than the left wing that is low, so the aircraft will then yaw to the right, effectively making it trail behind the lower wing. (it might help if you stand up in your office and put you arms out and pretend your an aircraft to understand this, dont worry about the funny looks haha) Therefore when in a turn, to be balanced, you need to apply your left pedal, to give slight left rudder to bring the top wing back into balanced flight.

They're the two main times you use your feet in flying. I believe rotary the feet yaw the aircraft too, but who wants to fly rotary

Thanks for the advice and the photos Re the watch, rep or gen?

No worries, and thanks for the kind words. That was a rep on gen rubber strap.

Here we go

Fixed wing , a very convenient way to get between two places

neither of which you want to be at it the first place

It must get so boring flying the 'right way up' all of the time

[TeeJay]

It makes the aircraft yaw, so on the vertical axis, attached picture below. If you imagine the corkscrew of the prop wash sprialling then hitting the rudder pushing it sideways.

Also when you turn (roll aircraft left for example) the right hand wing that is now high creates more drag than the left wing that is low, so the aircraft will then yaw to the right, effectively making it trail behind the lower wing. (it might help if you stand up in your office and put you arms out and pretend your an aircraft to understand this, dont worry about the funny looks haha) Therefore when in a turn, to be balanced, you need to apply your left pedal, to give slight left rudder to bring the top wing back into balanced flight.

Ahh, that makes more sense, thanks

I believe rotary the feet yaw the aircraft too, but who wants to fly rotary

That was my rudimentary understanding of helicopter controls as well: Feet direct the body left and right on the horizontal, with the main 'joystick' controlling rotor pitch and the 'handbrake joystick' controlling altitude (I could well be wrong about that )

No worries, and thanks for the kind words. That was a rep on gen rubber strap.

No problem, and thanks again That's what I like to hear

It must get so boring flying the 'right way up' all of the time

Saves spilling the coffee, I'm sure They do have cupholders, right?

[b16a2]

That was my rudimentary understanding of helicopter controls as well: Feet direct the body left and right on the horizontal, with the main 'joystick' controlling rotor pitch and the 'handbrake joystick' controlling altitude (I could well be wrong about that )

Yes as far as I know the collective (handbrake) changes the pitch of the actual blades, therefore as you say the altitude, and the cyclic (main joystick) controls the angle of the whole rotor assembly, allowing you to manouevre the helicopter as you would a fixed wing aircraft. I'm sure Narikaa can shed some more light on the basics of what essentially is emulating fixed wing flight through using lawn mower technology

Saves spilling the coffee, I'm sure They do have cupholders, right?

It would not surprise me in the least! Creature comforts, pah

[TeeJay]

Yes as far as I know the collective (handbrake) changes the pitch of the actual blades, therefore as you say the altitude, and the cyclic (main joystick) controls the angle of the whole rotor assembly, allowing you to manouevre the helicopter as you would a fixed wing aircraft. I'm sure Narikaa can shed some more light on the basics of what essentially is emulating fixed wing flight through using lawn mower technology

Awesome, all I need now, is the actual lessons to put it into practice

It would not surprise me in the least! Creature comforts, pah

That's what steward/esses are for, right?

[b16a2]

Ah, now I see the benefits of going rotary

[TeeJay]

Ah, now I see the benefits of going rotary

I actually just found an informative online article on how to fly a helicopter Looks like I already had the basic controls/operations about right in my mind Watching Airwolf taught me something afterall

[narikaa]

Well

There you go

a goddamned natural

a quick brush up on airlaw, met & your radio license

& your good to go

.

[robertk]

Well, read the article and get right out the airport. They're waiting for you.

[TeeJay]

Well

There you go

a goddamned natural

a quick brush up on airlaw, met & your radio license

& your good to go

.

I'm just pleased that I'd guessed what the basic controlls did. I suspect, that operating them correctly, will be considerably harder

Well, read the article and get right out the airport. They're waiting for you.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean...