robj Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Well "TJ" you have much stronger feelings about this than I! Particularly about the waterproofing thing etc, I would agree that people are generally mislead into thinking they are the only safe alternative but that is not their fault that is fueled by members and the fact they are trusted sellers. Ok some members will agree with everything as they think they need to ingratiate themselves in the hope of special deals etc. In anything like these forums you will always get people selective reading you only have to see the repetitive questions for that and if enough people keep saying this is the best way then they believe it. That said the majority of members are happy with sellers on here or at least don't say otherwise so what are people to think. The admin have vetted these vendors so from the point of view of the general population they don't need to do anything else, you have to remember that 90% of people need spoon feeding and it would seem from what I read are incapable of making a decision without full board approval even down to buying a band for their watch. This is life ! You will always get the people that choose to follow the crowd and have a quiet life and those that will search for something out of the the norm. What I personally think is that Admin should take a deposit from these vendors of say $5000/$10000 then they could offer the protection members think they can offer. Recently in my opinion there has been a lot of trusted sellers not playing the game or simply not performing if these people had $5000 at risk they would perform I promise you and in the event of total failing, Admin could do more than put pressure on them with emails/Phone calls etc as this would seem to be not enough to get them to perform of course Admin can ban or suspend them but I see that as an admission of defeat as no further sanctions are possible after that. and people are still in the same boat either waiting or accepting the fact that they are not getting it. I myself beleive that a certain level of security is afforded members by the system but I don't think it's only from Admin in particular but by members postings and reviews . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Well "TJ" Why the ""'s? Is that not my name? you have much stronger feelings about this than I! I have strong feelings about the issue, because I care about this community, and am sick of seeing it abused. Particularly about the waterproofing thing etc Simply because those are proven examples, of when the Cartel dealers have lied to buyers, and charged for services which were not provided. I would agree that people are generally mislead into thinking they are the only safe alternative but that is not their fault that is fueled by members and the fact they are trusted sellers. And I would entirely agree with you there. It might not be their fault, but that still does not mean it gives them the right to misadvertise product, and lie to and manipulate clients. If anything, those things should happen even less. Ok some members will agree with everything as they think they need to ingratiate themselves in the hope of special deals etc. In anything like these forums you will always get people selective reading you only have to see the repetitive questions for that and if enough people keep saying this is the best way then they believe it. That said the majority of members are happy with sellers on here or at least don't say otherwise so what are people to think. I would agree with those points too. The point being though, that these forums are supposed to protect people from scammers and scam sites. If a dealer starts delivering poor quality goods or services, then they should be removed from the listings, so people would konw that they are no longer to be trusted. I've only ever seen one dealer banned from this forum, and that ban had nothing to do with the service he was providing clients. It would appear the dealers are being judged on a 'balance' system - More good feedback than bad feedback = they're still trustable, and worthy of paying to be dealers. Personally, I would rather see something in place which would view the severity of negative services, such as the B&R incident, the reports of un-waterproofed watches, etc, and if they could be seen to form a pattern (which they do) then that'd be that. But, that's just my own opinion, and I can't insist that it be acted upon. The admin have vetted these vendors so from the point of view of the general population they don't need to do anything else, you have to remember that 90% of people need spoon feeding and it would seem from what I read are incapable of making a decision without full board approval even down to buying a band for their watch. Again, I agree, I just think it rather scary that educated adults need to be treated in such a manner. This is life ! You will always get the people that choose to follow the crowd and have a quiet life and those that will search for something out of the the norm. Of course, but, if 'the crowd' are being lied to, then they should realize that and seek other alternatives. What I personally think is that Admin should take a deposit from these vendors of say $5000/$10000 then they could offer the protection members think they can offer. Recently in my opinion there has been a lot of trusted sellers not playing the game or simply not performing if these people had $5000 at risk they would perform I promise you and in the event of total failing, Admin could do more than put pressure on them with emails/Phone calls etc as this would seem to be not enough to get them to perform of course Admin can ban or suspend them but I see that as an admission of defeat as no further sanctions are possible after that. and people are still in the same boat either waiting or accepting the fact that they are not getting it. I think that's an excellent idea. I don't think it would ever be implemented, but it's definitely a good one. Ultimately though, at the end of the day, the admin have made clear that they take no responsibility for what happens between buyers and dealers, but are merely 'facilitators of trade'. I myself beleive that a certain level of security is afforded members by the system but I don't think it's only from Admin in particular but by members postings and reviews . That would be true, if people were also posting negative reviews. Okay, I know there are negative reviews, but not many. Some would argue that that's simply a sign that there are very few dissatisfied customers. However, having seen how people rally round to defend a dealer who is receiving a negative review, I think it's also a likely case, that people are not posting negative reviews for fear of getting flamed by the forum, and getting the dealer mad, so lessening the chances of getting their issue resolved. I don't think that's a healthy state of affairs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promotersf Posted April 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Wow, an active debate with good points on both sides. I just wanted to drop a quick 411 on a trip to China...i'll see if I can have afternoon tea with Joshua or Andrew next time I'm there to even things out! 2:00 am PST, I must still be on HK time. Theo, yes I'm hoping things are moving along with our dial swaps! for your FYI, Ssurfer has the cyclops that you need if you contact him...and it looks like i'll have a 028 also since I bought one from that ioffer guy when I saw the thread upon my return on Sat. are you sending yours out for PVD...if so, let me know who you're going through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Uhm guys, shall we leave 'Cartel'- talk to a cartel-thread? The OP only wanted to share his nice meeting with Angus - who is not in the Cartel. So to avoid further confusion let's get back on topic and enjoy the stories from China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Uhm guys, shall we leave 'Cartel'- talk to a cartel-thread? The OP only wanted to share his nice meeting with Angus - who is not in the Cartel. So to avoid further confusion let's get back on topic and enjoy the stories from China You're absolutely right. Promoter, my apologies for taking your thread OT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) I am down to purchasing just one or two reps a year. Jeff...let me guess..you too are behind the AP with secs at 12 right? I would like to know if the new rep with secs at 12 will have the crown and the pushers aligned the same way as the version with 2892 dubois depraz module..I guess the rep will be eta 7750 based so no luck either....am I right? Also...will the new AP case be the same way as the gen? I mean the sandwich case, not just one piece. Angus is a great guy. I have talked to him sometimes but never bought from him. I think the best watches have come from him. Edited April 28, 2008 by manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanya Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Angus website down for two days????? Uh oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Good read. I was in HK last year and was also amazed at the availability and price of gen watches. Like you I visited the Panerai boutique in Princes building and came away thinking that I will never be able gto wear my 029 again LOL... the IWC boutique was awesome too.. they had Cousteau left and I could have picked it up for about USD 7400 or so, Ended up getting a great deal on Aquatimer... 30% of list which is the watch I wanted anyway. Thanks for the post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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