My Recent Posts

[UncleJay]

Your responses to my recent posts about DSN's and other Collector's recent QC problems have bought up several good points. My idea in general is a new forum to highlight a collector's or specific model's problems. We need one place to post these issues. Currently, such posts are scattered between their specific brand's forum and most don't read every individual brand forum.

Another idea would be a "Showcase Forum", where collectors could send (to be returned later) a Moderator a sample of one of their new offerings to be previewed, photographed, and examined. Comparisons between similar models could then be done with ease. No more "who's 112 or SMP is better" questions.

I have some extra time to devote to this project, but don't know how to kick it off. Remember, I'm still a newbie here so forgive me is these are old subjects. I really believe any info/intel is good for the community, and making it easy to access is crucial. So, what are your thoughts?

My DSN Post

My QC Post

[scoobs1971]

Jay, I really appreciate your efforts for this community. Thnx for that

However, I'm wondering if we need to start a new forum for problems with collectors or special models. Some of my thoughts:

1. One of the main goals of RWG is to separate the scammers from the reliable dealers. Unfortunately in the rep world there's a lot of 'grey' between real out scammers (you pay and you won't ever see a watch) and a 100% reliable dealer (you pay and you get exactly the watch that was advertised with 100% QC - every time you order).

The only way to find out if a collector is mostly 'light-grey' instead of 'dark-grey' are collector trade reviews. We already have a section for that. The problem is that most of the time we only read about the good experiences and only a few threads are about deals that went wrong. I think that there are a lot of people who for the sake of their relationship with their preferred collector don't want to write negative feedback, but choose to find a solution in private. I don't say that's a good or a bad thing. It just happens. So I don't think a new forum is going to change this attitude.

2. The different brand sections among other things are meant for posting feedback and reviews on special models.

It could be an idea, though, to have a review/feedback section within each brand section. In that way the feedback and general questions stay separated.

3. Although I like the idea of the showcase forum, Mods need to stay inpartial. In the past a respected member has written an excellent review of a watch that was sent to him as a freeby for a review and people started getting all over him.

[jkerouac]

Transaction reviews belong in the review section for each dealer rather than in the brand-specific forums. If a person wants to do a model-specific review, those should go in the brand-specific forums. Perhaps posters who use only one type of forum to post both model-specific and dealer-specific reviews should be encouraged to cross post so the relevant information appears in the appropriate location.

If a watch develops a problem after the original transaction review (which is often posted within a few days of the watch's delivery) and these cannot be resolved to the buyer's satisfaction, then this should be posted in the dealer review section as well.

I personally think dealer reviews that describe a problem and how it was or was not resolved are the most valuable of all reviews. They outweigh the transaction was smooth, fast, and I'm delighted with my watch-type reviews by ten to one.

I personally don't think we need a separate forum for negative reviews, in fact I think this would detract from the overall value of the review sections.

As for the showcase forum, Scoobs highlighted one problem with this approach, which is that dealers were in effect "paying" for reviews by providing freebies in exchange for reviews. Even a well-known reviewer places an order for a brand-new model, I wouldn't be surprised if dealers sometimes cherry pick to send them the best from a batch in order to spur additional orders from people waiting for those first reviews.

A better solution might be for a "mystery shopper," such as a new member, to order a new model and loan it to one of the better reviewers for examination. In this way there would be little or no opportunity for the dealer to cherry pick. Second, follow-up reviews of the same model shipped perhaps six to nine months after the original release could indicate whether originally quality standards are being maintained or not.

Granted, quality control is never going to be as consistent in the rep world as in the gen world. An inferior shipment of parts comes in one day? Use them anyway until the next shipment comes in. Somebody new on the assembly line makes an on-the-job training mistake? Ship it anyway. But our dealers should be on our side in this equation, not on the inconsistent factory's side. That's presumably why they enjoy favored status on this and other boards.

[scoobs1971]

Second, follow-up reviews of the same model shipped perhaps six to nine months after the original release could indicate whether originally quality standards are being maintained or not.

I totally agree! I would encourage everone who just bought a watch inspired by an old review to post his findings in that same review thread.

[scoobs1971]

A better solution might be for a "mystery shopper," such as a new member, to order a new model and loan it to one of the better reviewers for examination. In this way there would be little or no opportunity for the dealer to cherry pick.

Basically a good idea, but I doubt if it will be a practical solution.

[Corgi]

If everyone just bought from Narikaa we wouldn't even have these problems.

[lanikai]

Again.. very well stated jkerouac and scoobs..

I believe QC problems will alway's be with us .. as long as we "choose" to buy replications (which have come a long way) .. flaws will alway's be a part of the "game" .. intentional or not.. it has alway's been a belief of mine that flaws on reps are put there intentionally (for another topic)

China reports inflation at an all time high.. seems like their catching up with the rest of the world .... Japan "used " to be known for "cheap" imitations too.. not any longer.. so the price of everything is rising in the world.

I think the honesty behind non-sponsored reiviews and openess are best left alone... too much politics in an organized review .. when collaboration with collectors are involved ... we are transgressing... Not every one can review a piece like bytor... andreww ..... toad.... but then again we are not in the publishing business and the point of getting the community the information on a new replica comes down to contributing to the group and not a collector ....

I was thinking this morning when i was watching the sun rise at the boat ramp...... of my evolution in this hobby.. at first I wasn't really concerned a whole lot in the spot on accuracy of the replica.. and ignorance was in fact bliss.. but as this "hobby" took hold of me and my interest in finding.... not the, "best "rep... but how to get it modded "into" the best rep. .. i found it more rewarding than just buying replications..

The free flowing thoughts and ideas of this Forum are what is great ... members learn collectors stregnths and weakness'.... i tend to stick with the 3 main "makers" ie. HBB..Graham ... Porsche flat 6 .... Chopard.. etc.

I like to buy from collectors that sponsor genuine timepieces to the makers .....

Uncle jay .. your thoughts and efforts are very appreciated.. but IMO .. i think i would rather see the "amateaur status" rather than a media format...

We contend for a miniscule part of the buying rep world .. but we take care of our own..and that's what makes this forum great for me...

[Stephane]

I will second what as been said so far and thank Jay for his energy and dedicated time to RWG.

One thing I realised about my short experience is that lately I made a review of an Omega I got from PT (Precious Time UK) and said that the transaction was nice but that the watch wasn't that perfect.

I would never have said these things a while ago.

The language barrier is probably the main problem in pointing exactly what is "super" and what is "not super at all" in a deal with a dealer.

In example, I could have said (as some proposed) I will send it back because the crown was not working properly, but I didn't.

Why?

Because I didn't intend to send it back (the crowns of these Omega reps always end with screwing problems anyway).

Also because what I appreciate with PT is the fact he is in UK which means zero risk for me.

But, I don't feel confortable to "write in english" exactly what I didn't like about the QC of PT.

Again, I already said that and know not everybody agrees, but QC will never happen for us guys as we are a fraction of the rep buyers, and it will remain like that.

I'll try to work on a "template" for dealers reviews with some great members here and see if it helps to make sense for the community to use it each time a rep is delivered.

Cheers

Stephane