Pam 187 or 127

[golf645]

I really just decided after thinking I liked the 127 that I like the 187 better. Only thing is is there a really good 187 out there? I know there are some great 127's but how close can I get with a 187? In terms of accuracy which was is more accurate? Best compared to best.

[Ztech]

From what I know you'd be better off with the 127 "fiddy". It's well liked and there are many around. It's not that the 187's aren't around, but I've heard that they're far from the gen. So I suspect that you'd have a better time with the 127 if you're looking to get it as close to the gen as possible. Good luck.

[golf645]

I had to get the 187. It is just too cool a watch and other than the date i don't see anything glaring but I am not that picky ....yet! Can't wait to get it. probably trade it for a great fiddy in a few months but this will do for a while. Thanks for the tips.

From what I know you'd be better off with the 127 "fiddy". It's well liked and there are many around. It's not that the 187's aren't around, but I've heard that they're far from the gen. So I suspect that you'd have a better time with the 127 if you're looking to get it as close to the gen as possible. Good luck.

[Ztech]

The 187 is an awsome watch! If you're not too hung up on the flaws you should love it. Make sure to put up some pics when she arrives.

[dadog13]

Make sure to put up some pics when she arrives.

and make sure to check the bezel markers for not being loose...the best would be to take them off and to re-glue them...I have personally lost a couple of markers and I know several members did as well...

as for the choice between the two...they are totally different watches (choose the one you like more)....in terms of accuracy the 127 (the best version) is a better rep, definitely!

there are at least three versions of the 187...The one from Honpo (the best so far - do a little research of the forum), the standard asian7750 (carried by most of the dealers) and the one with the ETA7753 movement (as far as I know this one is available only by King)...

for the A7750, I thin (not 100% sure) that there were two versions of this one...the one that was present when the watch got 1st time released and the 2nd one (available right now)...not sure about this 100% but I saw some pics of members posting their 187 that seemed to have some sort of FACTORY AR that the 1st batch didn't have at all....

[OiRogers]

)...not sure about this 100% but I saw some pics of members posting their 187 that seemed to have some sort of FACTORY AR that the 1st batch didn't have at all....

My 187 is one of the Honpo sourced 187s with individual serial numbers, highbeat 7750 and all.... it has a single side AR, pretty lightly done. I did get my watch 2nd (or 3rd or 4th..) hand though... I think the AR was done by a prior owner.

My 187 has been serviced and my bezel markers are of the pinned-to-the-bezel variety.... I think mines a franken, never saw a 187 with all the features mine has.

The biggest flaws I know of on the 187 are the AR (or lack of) and the fact that most of the chrono pushers are threaded too far up the pusher... i.e. when you have the screw piece screwed all the way down, a bit of thread is showing.... a flaw compared to the gen. The AR can be fixed by any number of options on this forum... the pushers are an easy fix, just don't screw them down entirely... a 1/4 turn off "tight" and the threading is covered.

I've also heard that some of the 187 reps have a flaw with the "1000" on the dial fading to an odd grey color after a while... mine is still nice and bright blue.

It should also sport a 7753 movement to be more like gen... and the He valve looks a bit wonky....the datewheel is a bit recessed (to be expected with the 7750 movement)... but honestly that is getting to the point of splitting hairs... its a strangely beautiful and very imposing watch.

As far as which watch to get between the 127 and the 187?... I'd say both. They are extremely different watches. I own both and the 127 is wonderful with a blazer/tie for casual wear, also great with jeans and a t-shirt for REALLY casual wear. My 187 is a spectacular sport watch... wonderful with jeans/t-shirt and even better with khaki-BDU pants and a polo. Be aware the 187 is a horse of a watch... the 127 doesn't *look* nearly as large on the wrist under any circumstances.

I love both and think they are probably on the short list of reps I'll hang onto for the long haul.

Now, if only someone could come up with that 26mm kevlar strap with the engraved buckle....

[Ztech]

Hmm... this is great stuff. The 187 has always been one of my favorite PAM's. I just never pulled the trigger because I heard that most of them had so many issues. Some that couldn't be fixed/modded away. If any of you guys have an info on a really good one please shoot me off a PM. Thanks.

[sul]

PAM127rep is like a rep Rolex, everybody has one

It is a good and nice model but it is too spreaded

[golf645]

I like the 187 cause there's more going on with it but I love the 127's accuracy. You're right though there aren't as many 187's out there. Here is the one I got. Do you think it is just a regular 187 or did I luck out on a good one? Feels like Christmas in August waiting for this thing to show! What would you guys do to this one to improve it? Are there any out there without the messed up date wheel?

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=78580

PAM127rep is like a rep Rolex, everybody has one

It is a good and nice model but it is too spreaded

[OiRogers]

Just looking at the photos... the 187 appears to be one of the later Honpo offerings... in the 2nd photo the "too far threaded pushers" are clearly visible... as I suggested earlier, back off the screw down part a bit and it will cover the threading no problems. Can't see the He valve or the faux "quick date set" on the case side... they look decent on the Honpo 187s but are "different" from gen.

Looks like its AR free.. I'm sure you can track down a modder here that will be more than happy to coat that crystal for you.

The recessed date wheel is something that unfixable (at least as far as I know) with the 7750 movement...

That all being said, Enjoy your watch... the 187 is a spectacular toy.... and the odds of ever encountering a Gen on someone elses wrist in the wild is pretty slim.

I see the Gen strap is still up for grabs... hrmm... so tempting.

[golf645]

I know. That strap is gorgeous. I have seen a few reps though for around $80-100, Not bad. I think this watch needs something sporty for sure. Any one in the US that can do my AR? Does it take long or do I need to wait for a big batch to go through? Thanks. Don't need the superlume but AR would be really nice. I hope it is the better version. Honpo is better right? What makes it better? Movement, case?

Just looking at the photos... the 187 appears to be one of the later Honpo offerings... in the 2nd photo the "too far threaded pushers" are clearly visible... as I suggested earlier, back off the screw down part a bit and it will cover the threading no problems. Can't see the He valve or the faux "quick date set" on the case side... they look decent on the Honpo 187s but are "different" from gen.

Looks like its AR free.. I'm sure you can track down a modder here that will be more than happy to coat that crystal for you.

The recessed date wheel is something that unfixable (at least as far as I know) with the 7750 movement...

That all being said, Enjoy your watch... the 187 is a spectacular toy.... and the odds of ever encountering a Gen on someone elses wrist in the wild is pretty slim.

I see the Gen strap is still up for grabs... hrmm... so tempting.

[OiRogers]

The Honpo versions are supossed to be better... not having a chance to have a side by side of an unmodded Honpo with any other version, I can't really say... I lucked into mine and I love it. I know the really old 7753 version is coveted for its correct movement but the bezel, dial and case were a bit off. I will say my Honpo has great lume for a rep... I'm about 95% certain it hadn't been relumed by a prior owner. I don't think I would get mine re-lumed, in a nice dark room its legible all night long as is (as long as your eyes are adjusted to the dark)

I know the newer Honpo versions had individually numbered casebacks... in other words, all the 187 reps aren't case number 117 like all the 127s (it is "0117/1000" isn't it... can't be bothered to dig my 127 out of the safe atm....) Thats the biggest selling point I recall of the Honpos, the case detail was supposed to be nicer as well... but the "live" serial numbers were the standout feature of the Honpo 187s.

And with any other PAM, the shoes (strap) really make the watch... don't skimp. There are many fine custom makers that will whip up a masterpiece for you for less than 150$... I'm recently infatuated with Savage, he made a strap for a PVD pam for me I just can't stop wearing... price was perfect too.

Doesn't Ztech (isn't that Chieftangs new moniker?) do AR... he's CONUS if I'm not mistaken... I take my crystals to the local Lens Crafters.. the young woman with green hair there is very nice to me and does my AR's cheap and quickly... just have to supply the bare crystal to them. Call any place that actually makes glasses, they can coat crystals, its just a matter of if they *will* do it for anything/anyone other than inhouse glasses lenses.

All in all the 187 headed your way looks good... as others have said; make certain your Bezel markers are fimly attached, I've heard of folks knocking them off and losing them... thats probably the biggest issue with the 187... also be a bit wary of the movement, its an a7750 modded to the 3,6,9 layout... a bit less reliable than the native 6,9,12 layout for chrono use.... for general time keeping it'll run fine... repeated chrono use could cause an issue. If you plan on keeping the watch for a long period and have to use your chrono's... invest in a servicing... well worth the cash for a watch you plan on keeping and using for a long time.

[golf645]

Great info OR! I am going to have to hang out here alot longer to get that info in my brain. Lenscrafters? That's one I would have never thought of. Now all I need to do is take out the crystal. Easier said than done. Do I need any special tools or skills? I have been searching for a good strap with some luck. What is the deal with setting these chronos? I heard you have to have the hands in a specific spot before you change the date? Very bizarre.

The Honpo versions are supossed to be better... not having a chance to have a side by side of an unmodded Honpo with any other version, I can't really say... I lucked into mine and I love it. I know the really old 7753 version is coveted for its correct movement but the bezel, dial and case were a bit off. I will say my Honpo has great lume for a rep... I'm about 95% certain it hadn't been relumed by a prior owner. I don't think I would get mine re-lumed, in a nice dark room its legible all night long as is (as long as your eyes are adjusted to the dark)

I know the newer Honpo versions had individually numbered casebacks... in other words, all the 187 reps aren't case number 117 like all the 127s (it is "0117/1000" isn't it... can't be bothered to dig my 127 out of the safe atm....) Thats the biggest selling point I recall of the Honpos, the case detail was supposed to be nicer as well... but the "live" serial numbers were the standout feature of the Honpo 187s.

And with any other PAM, the shoes (strap) really make the watch... don't skimp. There are many fine custom makers that will whip up a masterpiece for you for less than 150$... I'm recently infatuated with Savage, he made a strap for a PVD pam for me I just can't stop wearing... price was perfect too.

Doesn't Ztech (isn't that Chieftangs new moniker?) do AR... he's CONUS if I'm not mistaken... I take my crystals to the local Lens Crafters.. the young woman with green hair there is very nice to me and does my AR's cheap and quickly... just have to supply the bare crystal to them. Call any place that actually makes glasses, they can coat crystals, its just a matter of if they *will* do it for anything/anyone other than inhouse glasses lenses.

All in all the 187 headed your way looks good... as others have said; make certain your Bezel markers are fimly attached, I've heard of folks knocking them off and losing them... thats probably the biggest issue with the 187... also be a bit wary of the movement, its an a7750 modded to the 3,6,9 layout... a bit less reliable than the native 6,9,12 layout for chrono use.... for general time keeping it'll run fine... repeated chrono use could cause an issue. If you plan on keeping the watch for a long period and have to use your chrono's... invest in a servicing... well worth the cash for a watch you plan on keeping and using for a long time.

[OiRogers]

Great info OR! I am going to have to hang out here alot longer to get that info in my brain. Lenscrafters? That's one I would have never thought of. Now all I need to do is take out the crystal. Easier said than done. Do I need any special tools or skills? I have been searching for a good strap with some luck. What is the deal with setting these chronos? I heard you have to have the hands in a specific spot before you change the date? Very bizarre.

Date setting on the 7750's (ETA and Asian)... just to be on the safe side of things... don't set the date between 10pm and 2am ...I've been pretty anal about mine and set the date to noon (furthest point from midnight on the movements wheels) before I set the date and never had an issue. I believe that the 7750 design has a bit of a flaw that allows the date quick set function to become inoperable if it is used too near the "date change" (i.e. midnight) point on the movement.

Also with Asian 7750s (and any chrono in general... just to be safe): make sure you've got a good amount of power reserve before you run/stop/reset the chronos. Many say don't wind the a7750 from the crown, I tend to follow that advise.... swirl around in you hand for 30 sec or so to get the works running and then wear for a day to get a full wind...

Removing and replacing a crystal can require a bit of technique, or just brute force with your thumbs... depends on the watch. I generally pop crystals out by hand (remove caseback and movement first obviously) and replace with a crystal press available from any of the watch tool houses... i've seen neat little PVC pipe creations used to remove crystals as well, but I have yet to encounter one that can't be popped by hand. One must be careful though, many crystals have a gasket that increase the water-resistance... very fragile and pretty much impossible to replace if damaged. I'm sure a search of the site hear will show the basics of what you need to know to do this yourself, or decide if you want a modder to do it for you.

I learned how do do many repairs by sourcing MANY MANY crappy watches to play with and learn the skills... I destroyed more than one cheap rep in learning and I'm still learning... been working at it for two years and consider myself a solid n00b at modding/watchsmithing.

As far as AR goes... us the search on this site... several members have ability or links to those that can AR your crystal... or if you trust your own skill enough to remove and reset your own crystals... call around to local places that make eye-glasses and inquire if they would be willing to put the anti-reflective coating on a watch crystal you provided... some will, some won't, some will do it poorly, some do a great job.