Casebacks for Pre-A; thoughts?

[ubiquitous]

I've been looking through the available casebacks out there on the market from DSN and the sort; I'm not sure that the accurate caseback for my Pre-A 002 exists.

Based on the documented Pre-A and T-SWISS-T discussion regarding these neo-vintage gems, it seems to me that I'd need an 'A-suffix' second series Pre-A back which would be a little more period correct for the Jimmy case I have. Essentially, this would be the one with 'A0---/1000 (1000 for the Base series), less than 300 for the milesimation figure and with a numerical difference of 1400 between the BB number and the milesimation.

Having looked at the available backs out there, nothing seems to fit the bill (or maybe I'm not looking in the right places). At any rate, and just as a sanity check, can the experts chime in to confirm if I have my understanding correct (V, FGD, Rolli, Kruz, or anyone I may have missed)? Perhaps a later A serial back (though I'd assume these should have the non-hyphenated T SWISS T)? Or, if I'm being a little too critical and knitpicky in details, please feel free to reality check me there as well I want my project to be as correct as possible; but if my expectations need to be adjusted because they are elevated beyond reason, I'd appreciate some thought on that matter as well. It's easy to get carried away with these sort of things, and my enthusiasm for this particular project has me somewhat tunnel visioned

Cheers,

R

[dluddy]

FGD and I discussed this last week Ubi.

Check out DSN's Pre-A 0009 caseback and then compare to this genuine:

http://www.paneristi.com/archives/PreA_Pan..._A_Panerai.html

[dadog13]

to make this easier this should be the last caseback of a DSN 009 :

and this is the casback of the gen 009 :

[ubiquitous]

Ahhh, yes. The 6500 would be best for an early Pre-A, but wouldn't those use the thicker lug/case Pre-V case? I thought 6502 was the one I needed for a later series 2 Pre-V 'A-Suffixed' thinner case?

Or am I splitting hairs?

[cc]

i have both the 6500 99/1000 and 6502 A357/1000. i also dont know which to use although im assuming the 6500 is correct.

[PAMman]

The 6500 caseback from DSN is correct for the preA series. The first 1000 handwind models didn't have the A prefix and were a mix of 001, 002, 004, 009 etc. The 6500 case was not the preV case, which had a 2 screw setup, but had a single screw and the longer lugs, similar to the Jimmy Fu cases. Indeed, the single screw case was a preVendome development, just before the sale of the watch division to Vendome, although very few preV watches had the newer cases.

There were no preA dials (T-SWISS-T) used in A series watches; all A series were 'T' dials, but the B series used the last of the T dials and a few had the T-SWISS-T dials, before the L dial became the norm.

So to answer your question, DSN's 0099/1000 caseback is correct for your Jimmy Fu preA and the B series would also be OK (although rarer) for a preA1.

[dluddy]

I believe that both were used so take your pick is my advice....I am going with the DSN 09 caseback for my 02.....

In general, dials with T-Swiss-T would have the 6500 caseback.

T Swiss T would use 6502

[Lonami]

I believe that both were used so take your pick is my advice....I am going with the DSN 09 caseback for my 02.....

In general, dials with T-Swiss-T would have the 6500 caseback.

T Swiss T would use 6502

As far as i remember, i think that half preA so the T-Swiss-T have 6502 casebacks.

[ubiquitous]

The reason why I ask...

From the referenced archive review for Pre-A and T-SWISS-T Panerai:

The Second Pre-A OP 6502 Series; Pre-A's with Prefix "A".

Immediately after the 1000 Historical collection Luminors and Luminor Marinas, and well after the 400 numbers reserved for the Mare Nostrums, around serial number BB 971400, a second series of Luminors and Luminor Marinas saw the light of day. Again, in total, 1000 OP 6502 PAM 001, 002, 003, 004, 009 and 010 were planned, but this time only about 300 watches were actually made.

The second series of a 1000 watches (or to be more specific 300) is known as the pre-A series WITH prefix "A". Is this contradictory? Not at all, see the above comments by Dirk Grandry. While these watches do have prefix "A", they definitely are pre-A models. They can easily be distinguished from regular A-series models by their serial number. Again, there is a consistent logic between the BB-number and the millesimation number.

For all Luminor Marinas within this batch (PAM 001, 003 and 004) it is even easier to tell. The millesimation format for pre-A here is A0XXX/1000, where for A-series Luminor Marinas the format should read AXXXX/1500. This is the reason why it is possible to have a PAM 001 Luminor Marina with an A-prefixed millesimation of a 1000 pieces. In the regular A-series ONLY Luminors (bases) have a millesimation limited to 1000, while of the Luminor Marina A-series, 1500 were made. Likewise, an "A" prefixed Luminor with a matriculation number higher than 300 cannot be a pre-A watch.

[ picture #14: Example of an OP 6502 case back with prefix "A". ]

For pre-A OP 6502 watches with prefix "A", the last four digits of the BB-number or serial number minus 1400, should equal the four digits of the millesimation number. Format: BB 97XXXX

[fishgodeep]

I believe that both were used so take your pick is my advice....I am going with the DSN 09 caseback for my 02.....

In general, dials with T-Swiss-T would have the 6500 caseback.

T Swiss T would use 6502

Oh there's always the nice little exceptions with Panerai which makes all our anal attention to detail somewhat wasted..

I agree totally with everything PAMMan and Dluddy say ...but then I saw this on the bay last week...120303842095

It's an A-series 002 in OP6502 Case Set (Jimmy) with a Pre-A dial sausage lumed in A-series style lume method.....

It's next on my to do list as all the parts are out there...and there's a master of lume in Canada!!

Best regards

FGD

[ubiquitous]

Pre-A T-SWISS-T with A prefix; 6502 case and 1400 difference between BB serial and milesimation:

Linky

According to Dirk Grandry, this would technically be a Pre-A...

[dluddy]

Dirk just posted this on Risti as they were trying to figure out an 028 mystery caseback:

OP6502 (PAM 1-2-3-4-9-10) split up into:

OP6518 (Luminor Marina SS PAM 1-3)

OP6519 (Luminor Marina PVD PAM 4)

OP6520 (Luminor Base SS PAM 2-10)

OP6521 (Luminor Base PVD PAM 9)

OP6504 (PAM 22-23) split up into:

OP6522 (Destro Marina SS PAM 22)

OP6523 (Destro Marina PVD PAM 26)

OP6508 (PAM 27-28) split up into:

OP6525 (PR SS PAM 27)

OP6526 (PR PVD PAM 28)

OP6506 (PAM 24-25) split up into:

OP6527 (Sub SS PAM 24)

OP6528 (Sub Ti PAM 25)

[ubiquitous]

Dirk has also posted this as well, however...

There's no way to tell if the watch has a T SWISS T or T-SWISS-T dial based on the serial and millesimation number (you just need to look at the dial, the shape of the indexes and what's written below the 6).

Here's how to tell if a watch is a real pre-A.

There must be a logic relationship between the serial (BB) and millesimation number in all 3 cases.

OP6500 are PAM 1-2-3-4-9-10 that were produced before the insertion of the 400x OP6501 Mare Nostrum serial numbers.

The last 4 digits of the serail number must be the same as the last 4 digits of the millesimation number.

Example:

BB970305

0305/1000

OP6502 are PAM 1-2-3-4-9-10 that were produced after the insertion of the 400x OP6501 Mare Nostrum serial numbers. Impossible to date to determine the precise point where OP6500 stops and OP6502 starts, as the OP6501 doesn't have a millesimation-number.

Without A-prefix: the serial number is 400 higher than the millesimation number.

Example:

BB971295

0895/1000

With A-prefix: the serial number is 1400 higher than the millesimation nuber and Marina-models retained /1000 as suffix. Ends somewehere below the BB971700-mark.

Example:

BB971539

A0139/1000

A couple of genuine pre-A watches have been observed with T SWISS T dial (can be a dial switch/upgrade during service or a pre-production prototype) and T-SWISS-T dials were observed on a dozen or so later normal A and B- series watches.

The bolded text above is the basis for my inquiry