HauteHippie Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Just for what it's worth... the cases of the V1 SA and the V2 SA are definitely not the same. The V2 SA is commonly shown with gen dial swaps here on the forums, and it readily accepts the gen dial without removing the rehaut ring. The V1 SA, as The Zigmeister has informed me with parts in hand, requires the use of the rep rehaut ring on the gen dial to fit in the case. With the gen rehaut ring in place, the stem holes on the movement simply do not line up with the case holes. So... V1 - Accepts gen bezel, accepts gen dial only with rep rehaut ring. V2 - Does not accept gen bezel, accepts gen dial with gen rehaut ring. Plusses and minuses to both, therefore... Obviously on the V1 the dial depth is slightly inaccurate and you're stuck with the rep chapter ring. But the acceptance of the gen bezel is a big plus because this means you can actually remove and reinstall the bezel in order to remove the crystal for AR coating. Now, the V2 does have decent AR from the rep factory, however I don't know how durable it is and if it does get scratched then your SOL as that bezel just aint coming off without destroying it. Just some things I'm learning the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoKing Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Thanks for posting Chief. I had sent my V1 to The Zigmeister for a gen bezel install, and he sent it back saying it couldn't be done. After confirming with a number of members that it could, I played around and figured out how do it myself I'd take his results with a grain of salt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Thanks for posting Chief. I had sent my V1 to The Zigmeister for a gen bezel install, and he sent it back saying it couldn't be done. After confirming with a number of members that it could, I played around and figured out how do it myself I'd take his results with a grain of salt... Umm, OK.... Apples and oranges though. The V1 dial height is not the same as the gen so once attached to the movement and inside the case, the holes simply don't line up. What is the solution? (1) Shim between the dial and movement? Sure if you can find longer posts for the hands and don't mind an unsightly gap in the date window. (2) Make the dial height correct for the case. I'll take #2 myself. The rep rehaut ring is how to get there. And let's face it, nobody will ever know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru1 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 How do I find out if I have V1 or V2, I received mine in october last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Post a pic. We will tell you. Oct '08 is most likely V2 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 wouldn't it be great for someone reading this thread to be able to buy a complete franken kit complete with a v2 super avenger, gen dial and gen strap? deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender110 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 this is confusing and might be mostly a problem with having REPLICA watches and the varing production runs... i personally have completed: several V1 franken super avengers with: gen bezels, gen dials w/ gen tachy rings, +gen movements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Well, what I can tell you is this... The Zigmeister has checked and double checked for me (at my request) because I was about 95% certain it would work with the V1 and gen tachy ring... But side by side the rep dial/ring is a different thickness that the gen dial/ring. So, as you know, when you insert the dial into the case from the caseback, it will bottom out in the case. And if it doesn't bottom out in the right spot with the movement attached, then the case holes won't line up with the movement. If you think of the dial as nothing more than a spacer for the movement in the case, then if the two dials are of different thicknesses things won't line up both ways. If I were to guess, and it's only a guess, I would bet there is a "wrong" way to get it to work with the gen tachy ring. Perhaps a small spacer between the dial and movement, bend the hands slightly so that they don't rub against the dial, and then live with crown stem and chrono pushers being "close enough".... But the reason I go to The Zigmeister time and time again is to get jobs done correctly. So, that's the situation and my guess as to how maybe it can be "jerry-rigged". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender110 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 sample pics: and CLICKABLE: V1 CASES with GEN DIALS and BEZELS and MOVEMENTS. not 'jerry rigged' (in the first pic the BLUE is replica parts except bezel) i have alot more pictures in folders... but i just selected afew for forum. anyone want a higher res pic.. i have those too. ONCE again.. i believe its a symptom of vary production runs and timelines, when dealing with replica items and low quality control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 On either the blue or black, could you show a pic of the side of the case with the crown off and stem installed so we could see how far off center the stem is? With everything else being equal it has to be at least a little off center because I can see a slight difference in depth on the dial side between the blue vs. the white/black... The blue is definitely a little deeper (unless it's an optical illusion) so the white or black gen dials should have an uncentered stem with the stem being a little high. Or if adjustments were made to get the stem centered, what were the adjustments? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender110 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 hello all! no more apart pics. sorry. i do have more outside case shots. i did not do any of these installs. i do no watch work. these were all done by forum members. i was never ever told of any mods that had to be done to 'make it work'. again i beleive a symptom of REPLICA WATCH factories and varyign degrees of production... i wish i could get a PAM0036 you know the one i mean... the high cannon pinion, ar'ed, thick crown, real ti case, limited production/rare production from a few years ago. why cannt they still make it like that ONE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Based on this info, I think the gen dial could be installed on mine and look fine from the outside too. But with the slight difference in dial thicknesses between rep and gen, the stem can not be centered in the crown tube with the gen dial installed. And, maybe it's just me, but I don't want an uncentered stem as I don't feel comfortable with the long term consequences to the movement (genuine Breit in mine) of screwing down a crown to a case with a stem that is out of alignment... because then you're essentially "forcing" it in to place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitesox Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Chief my watchmaker mentioned no problem at all when installing the gen dial and ring into the version 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Chief my watchmaker mentioned no problem at all when installing the gen dial and ring into the version 1. Is there any chance you could unscrew the crown from the stem and take a picture of the stem alignment in the crown tube? And just in case I've confused everyone (highly likely ), I'm not saying it CANT be done. I'm saying it can't be done properly without some sort of additional spacer somewhere to make up for the difference in thickness between the rep and gen dial + rehaut ring (or with the rep rehaut ring). Maybe the thickness difference is small enough that it can be done with gen dial, gen rehaut ring, and no spacer but then the stem won't be centered in the crown tube and you'll be torquing it when the crown is secured down. So even if it technically "works" (read "looks like it works") without the spacer, using the spacer is still much better for the movement. And because a spacer between the dial and rehaut ring would look bad, and a spacer between the dial and movement would create a gap in the date window (also look bad) and possibly cause problems with fitting the hands on the now shorter posts, the best solution is the rep rehaut ring..... IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitesox Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Chief I sold this one on a while ago and I believe it has been sold again since this. Stem alignment in the crown tube was perfect from memory though as I would have noticed this. I'm sure my watchmaker would have mentioned any problems with building this but he said it all fitted together no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Chief I sold this one on a while ago and I believe it has been sold again since this. Stem alignment in the crown tube was perfect from memory though as I would have noticed this. I'm sure my watchmaker would have mentioned any problems with building this but he said it all fitted together no problem. Well it's an unsolved mystery. There is no doubt that the rep and gen dials are different thickness, and if nothing is done to compensate, then the holes won't line up. Maybe you didn't notice it if you never removed the crown from the stem. You can't really see how the stem is aligned unless the crown is removed.... In this case a frankenjust, but with the crown in place you can not see where the stem aligns inside the tube on any watch... A pic just like this is what we need for the franken SA v1 with gen dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitesox Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 You would feel the stem rub on the tube when adjusting the time though right.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 You would feel the stem rub on the tube when adjusting the time though right.? Maybe there is a gasket inside the tube so you don't feel it. I don't know. But I think we can agree on the technical details, right? Different dial thicknesses has to mean a different spacing of the movement with respect to the case holes (all else being equal). So...... it's still puzzling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Cross posting the final answer to this one, for future reference.... Most dimensions are critical when it comes to watch work, especially when your swapping rep parts for genuine ones. Some dimensions have to be exact, of the swap is impossible. There seems to be some misunderstanding or misbelief when it comes to swapping Breitling dials. If the dial bezel or rehaut is not IDENTICAL in thickness between the rep and genuine dial, you CAN"T swap the genuine dial, WITHOUT swapping the rep rehaut to the genuine dial to maintain the alignment. I can't remember any chrono type Breitlings I have done where I didn't have to swap the rehaut between dials, I may have had one that the dimensions were the same, but it's not coming to me at the moment. If the rehaut is not identical, you can't do the swap... Here's why...easy to see the thickness difference, I don't have to do anything further to confirm, this swap is not possible... But since some would have you believe that you should take everything I say with a grain of "salt", here you go... And now with the Genuine dial... This should clear up any confusion or doubts... Thanks for reading. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru1 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Post a pic. We will tell you. Oct '08 is most likely V2 though. I guess this is V2, please confirm Italiano confirmed that he changed some of his V2 to the gen dial without problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodap Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 It's V2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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