So Many questions

[m3man]

OK so I hope to get some answers from some kind soul who was in my position at some time totally lost.

For those who hate noob questions I apologize.

I will start with I have spent many hours on here the past few days trying to read up on replicas and have learned a lot, however I am still very lost. The search function has helped, but a lot of lingo and acronyms and names with no websites have left me more lost. I am going to list some questions and would greatly appreciate any answers.

First I would like to start out with I am interested in the best 50th Anniversary replica I can buy, I was willing to spend the $700 from idealwatches till I found this site, so now that I know a noobmariner really goes for 300, and a "better" one is maybe 500-700 I am ok with that. Now here are my questions.

1. From what can tell 3 common reputable online sites to buy the "noobmariner" (~$300) are www.eurotimez.com, http://www.jpc8118.com(perfectclones), and http://www.tt88time.com(trustytime), Is this correct?

2. Now I have been told that basically all these sellers sell the same noobmariner, however the thing you have to watch out for is quality control. But then I hear all dealers just drop ship, so this is a lost cause?

3. I also hear eurotimez has the best quality control, but then I also hear he drop ships, so which is true? I hear lots of people say he is great, but the first go around they got a bad watch, had to send it back and then got another one, so does he use quality control or not?

4. Now I am very confused by the whole WM9, and BK thing. I found WM9's site (Watchmaker9.tv) and searched around. his watches are usually around $500-$800. What is the extra cost, is he making these him self from scratch? Is he purchasing the noobmariner and just guarantees quality control fixing small problems? Or is he buying noobmariners and adding genuine parts?

5. Now the BK thing has me even more confused, I hear BK uses WM9's watches and then he does quality control? What is the whole thing with BK? Does he make his own? Does he have a website?

For some Submariner specific questions.

6. There is a new V2 submariner that has come out, is this what eurotimez and the like are selling? Or is this V2 something you can only get from WM9 and BK?

7. Whats the differences between V2 and the V1?

8. I also hear that WM9 will be coming out with a V2 16610LV and it is supposed to "rock" I hear its supposed to basically be like the regular sub V2 but with the 50th anniv. hardware. What is the deal with this watch?

9. WM9 and BK both have preorder campaigns? Whats the deal with this if you buy within a certain days you save hundreds of dollars? This is very confusing to me. Why would anybody wait till the last date to spend hundreds more why not just buy in the beginning?

10. What is the benefit of buying directly from WM9 vs. BK and vice versa.

11. WM9 has two versions of the LV on his site a standard version and a VIP version. both of which are ceased, does this mean you can't get them anymore? Why does he stop selling watches?

12. How do you become a VIP to WM9?

13. I have tried to pick out differences between the gen and replica watches and the three most common items I hear are the crown guards (CG's), pearl, and the bracelet. What exactly is it about the CG's thats different? I can't seem to see anything.

14. When it comes to movements it talks about 25 and 28 jewel movements. What are the jewels they speak of?

15. I hear of 2678-2 in the V2, 2836-2 on the noobmariner, and 2892-A2 on WM9's site. Whats the differences?

16. Supposedly the three dealer above (eurotimez, trustytime, perfectclones) are selling the same watch but when you go on their site and look at the "Swiss Made" at the bottom near the 6 marker, some span 3 tick marks and some span 5, I believe 3 is genuine? I am very bad at spotting a fake, but this seems way to obvious to me.

eurotimez (? tick marks):

trustytime (3 tick marks):

perfectclones (5 tick marks):

WM9 (3 tick marks):

Supposid genuine (3 tick marks):

Are the three dealers above getting from the same source?

Why would anyone buy one that spans the 5 tick marks with this being so obvious, however I hear no talk of this, but TONS of discussions of crown guards of which I can't even see a problem/difference.

I thank anyone who is willing to help me with all this, I am very lost and am trying to wrap my head around all these questions.

I can't afford a real 50th anniversary watch, am looking to just purchase a nice every day watch under $1000, the best my $ can buy.

Josh

[Shundi]

Alright...there are at least 16 questions here not counting some of the ones in text, etc...I'm going to have dinner and then I'll come back and try to type out the answers to a few of these while I go over some stuff in excel.

[ammandel]

Alright...there are at least 16 questions here not counting some of the ones in text, etc...I'm going to have dinner and then I'll come back and try to type out the answers to a few of these while I go over some stuff in excel.

First post! Shundi, you're so dedicated

[Spidey7]

Holy S**T Josh! That's a lot of questions (NO BODY expects the Spanish inquisition (Monty Python reference)), As a lowly n00by myself I will try to answer as many of your questions as I can, although I might not know the answers to ALL of them. But for STARTERS, definitely read the glossary and wiki that have been so kindly provided to us by Toadtorrent and The Zigmeister. It will clear up most of your questions about terms and abbreviations.

1)My understanding is that just about any of the "collectors" that are granted permission to deal here on this site are vetted and cleared through past dealings with various members. The only time you should worry, is if you are going to a non RWG recommended site. There is also a thread in here that gives a list of known "scammer" sites. As far as who is the best to purchase from, it really comes down to personal choice, but ALL of the ones you mentioned should be very trustworthy.

2) as far as the "noobmariner" goes, they all carry the same brand. It's just a matter of using someone that you feel good about and that you trust will handle and Q.C. problems down the road, should they arise.

3)I don't know anything about "eurotimez" personally, but even if people have said that they received a faulty item, the fact that he replaced it for everyone would give me a great amount of confidence in using him. Remember that NONE of these people are making the item themselves. They order from their secret sources, and then they have to be the ones left holding the bag if they end up with a bad shipment. That's why you want someone that won't leave you in the lurch when the hour marker falls off two days after you receive it.

4)Watchmaker9 (or WM9) came up with the much vaunted WM9 Rep. It is his own design, and according to the reviews I've read, it is as close to a Gen as you can get at the moment. It was designed with quality in mind from superior parts, and comes with options that a "noobmariner" doesn't like Superlume and Clarks crystal (read your wiki), which justifies it's extra expense. BK is the only WM9 approved distributor of that model here on RWG. You can order through either one. BK supposedly does a few extra things after he receives his shipment from WM9 to add a little extra "oooomph" but in the end, it's the same as ordering something from a distributor, or purchasing straight from the manufacturer. There is also the issue of customer support. From what I've heard, BK is very diligent about handling issues. WM9 is also good, but due to the volume of business he deals with on a daily basis, it can sometimes take much longer to get an answer from him. (BTW, a really good way to determine who to go with is to TALK to them. Write BK and WM9 a letter (or anyone else you might be interested in using). See how long it takes them to get back to you. Is it a brusque, one sentence answer? Or is it a pleasant missive that fully answers all of your questions. You will get a very good feel for who you are dealing with, and who you feel comfortable with). BK ALSO specializes in "noobmariners" so he would be a good person to talk to about the differences (but FIRST read the reviews in his "collector" heading labeled "BK's Watch Garage" as it might answer your questions).

5)I've answered most of this in question #4. BK receives all of the parts from WM9 and he then assembles them himself. That way he is satisfied with the quality, because HE is the one that built them, not some unknown quantity somewhere. As far as I know he does not have a website external to the RWG. Just go look at "BK's Watch Garage". I'm sure that you'll find what you're looking for.

6)The "V2" (version 2.0) is available from WM9 and BK ONLY.

7) It is basically the next model of the WM9 with a few things tightened up, and some new things added (Superlume, etc.) If you go to "BK's Watch Garage" you'll find a thread that fully specifies the upgrades. Since it is the same price as the "V1" you'll want a "V2".

8)The scuttlebutt was (and still is) that WM9 is developing a WM9 "LV" version (50th Anniversary). It was supposed to drop in January, but apparently has been pushed back. No one knows how far back yet. There are more differences between the standard "black" version and the "Anniversary green" edition. then just the bezel color. The LV also has a "Maxi-dial" and larger hands, so just putting a green bezel insert on a standard WM9 would not look authentic. Many (including myself) are eagerly anticipating the release of this model.

9)Maybe you don't have the cash at the moment? Maybe you're just a "Johnny come-lately"? Who knows? You are rewarded for pre-ordering by being given a better price because (I assume) it helps them to have the cash influx at the beginning to get the product up off the ground and moving instead of trying to do it all out of pocket. Later once production is in full swing, there's no need to give the deep "Introductory" discounts anymore.

10)I answered this in question #4. Would you rather purchase your new "Mustang" directly from Ford? or from your local dealer? Who is going to have the time to deal with your service issues? Who do you think you'll get the best value for your money from? It's up to you.

11)My understanding is that one can become a "V.I.P." member over at WM9's site which entitles one to purchase models not offered to the general public. These models are usually ordered in batches which means that once they are sold out, then they are sold out. Yes it means that you can't get them anymore, unless it's from a member here in one of the selling/trading posts. You might think about posting a WTB (Wanted to buy) thread to see if anyone has one that they wouldn't mind selling.

12)Ask WM9

13)It's a subtle difference that, quite honestly, no one on the street would ever notice. The shape of the CG's can be a little too rounded or too pointed. Even though maybe 1 in 1000 people would EVER notice the difference (especially without a Gen sitting right next to it to compare it to), this site is all about the pursuit of 100% accuracy. Guys here are trying to see if they can get it absolutely PERFECT. But again, 1 in 100 people have never even held Gen of this type, let alone be well enough versed in all of the various model idiosyncrasies depending on date of production to ever be able to spot any of the errors.

14)In "automatic" movements that depend on the spinning of a small pendulum inside of the case to keep on running, metal ball-bearings would wear out over time causing the watch to fail. Man made sapphire bearings are used instead since their hardness on the MOHS scale is second only to diamonds. The use of these incredibly hard little ball bearings greatly reduces the amount of wear and friction inside the movement. The number of ball bearings is the "Jewel Number". The more jewels inside the watch, the more expensive and the better it will run (although the difference between a 25 and 28 jewel movement should be negligible).

15)Just different types of movements. Just like car engines, people like to debate the various merits of this movement or that movement, but in truth, ANY of them will be fine for you purposes.

16)The "tick mark" issue is dependant to the year that the Gen was produced. Either one can be correct.

Alright Josh, you OWE me. I was going to go peruse some Pr0n after this post, but now after all the typing, my fingers are all knarled and twisted which would most likely be extremely uncomfortable (then again who knows?). Maybe you could pay me back by becoming a "supporter". This site only runs off of the kindness of its users. You're going to end up saving $500+ on the best Rep available verses paying $1,000+ for some P.O.S. you got off of a Scam site (if you even got anything at ALL!). Three bucks a month is a steal! Plus, you get to hang out with cool guys like Toadtorrent and RobbieG and Corgi. If THAT'S not the best deal on the web, then I don't know what is!

P.S. If I have given any incorrect info due to my extreme "n00by'ness" please feel free to correct me. BUT, if you correct me in a condescending way, then "Bite Me"

[Shundi]

1. Silix may also have it...haven't checked though.

2. Most of the "large" dealers do drop ship... some, like Eurotimez, advertise that they QC all watches before they go out and have posted some impressive statistics and pictures of this QC... if in doubt, you can email the seller privately... I know that either Eurotimez or King have taken pictures of the watch a customer will receive before it is sent to them...maybe email them and ask them if this is possible? Regarding QC- it's the rep game... I've purchased about 50 reps in my life...of those 50, 1 had noticeable QC issues... 2% ain't too bad considering I've purchased about 30 mid to high end gens in my life and have had problems with 2 of them (Crown wouldn't screw down and rotor came off on a Omega SMP and Breitling Colt respectively)...the real question is: Which dealer will stand by their product and offer to fix a problem/guarantee a hassle-free exchange? The feedback area near the bottom of the main page that lists all the recommended collectors has feedback on those types of transactions...in the end, that's a personal call and not one I can really help you with other than to say read up on the dealers and pick one who will stand by his/her product.

3. See above

4. WM9 is known for customizing and sometimes building (well commissioning anyway) improved models of common Rolexes. I've never purchased from him directly but I've owned one of his subs... I'm not sure if he uses the Noob, etc for a base or what he does but I'd imagine so... either way, if you search WM9 you'll find reviews of his sub... By-Tor did an awesome one on the latest sub (as did Tribal, a very respected Sub/SD modder here) and pointed out flaws/positives compared to the genuine article and the euromariner (I think, again, you'd have to search for it)

5. BK is a modder here (his name here is bklm1234- you can find it if you click "Member" above and type that in). He sells certain WM9 models on our board after he receives them from WM9 (currently some of the best out of the box reps) and runs his own QC on them (Makes sure the CG's are ok, pearl/bezel are ok, etc)

6 & 7 - Not sure on the differences between the subs but generally the price difference will tell you the version... if in doubt, ask the dealer or the general membership if need be.

8. Cool. Haven't heard that. Since it hasn't come out yet, it'd be tough for anyone here to really comment on it...I've seen dealers show pictures of a particular watch and promise that's how it looks and then I see 15 members saying it isn't true, etc... I generally don't purchase a watch until I've read all I can on it (Literally, run the search feature on IWC 3717 - I read almost every topic on that watch before carefully pulling the trigger on it) and most importantly until a respected/well-known member takes a ton of photos of it and posts their thoughts. Then I find a bunch of hi-res pictures of the genuine and I compare the reviewer's pictures to the genuine looking for any and all flaws. If you want the best, it takes time and you should know that it's never going to be "THE BEST..." There will always be something.

9. Would you rather pay now and receive something you don't like / want/ that doesn't look like what you thought it would or would you rather pay $150 more and buy the item you saw 15 people review and give a thumbs up to? Depends on how you buy.... WM9 has a decent track record and the pre-order campaigns probably help them offset the cost of manufacture, etc... if someone like Tribal or By-Tor or Freddy or Ubi or BK or any one of the countless Rolex guru's says it's an awesome rep than...it's an awesome rep and if you decide you want to pre-order based on that, awesome. WM9 watches have been known to be delayed for months at a time on occasion because of unforeseen production issues but you'll get your watch eventually.

10. BK's extra quality control. Personally, I would buy from BK as I'd know he 1. had the watch in and 2. would perform QC

11. No idea...maybe he only orders a set amount of them and then moves on to commissioning something else? Again, an email to the dealer wouldn't hurt.

12. No idea- plenty of members seem to own his watches here without being VIPs though...might mean you've already purchased from him? Idk- there's a lot of...shall we use the term "innovative" marketing in the rep world.

13. The size and shape of the CG's (pointy vs. flat, thick vs. thin)...that's the type of thing modders try to get close to the gen as some reps come with CG's of the wrong size and shape.

14. Not sure why this is being posted here if you've done a ton of reading and searching as http://www.mens-watches-guide.com/jewel-movement.html is literally the first link that came up when I searched "Jewels in movement" in Google. It's a decent article and as a rule most automatic ETA 3 hand movements contain 25 jewels... 28 seems like an odd number but whatever...If you're interested in a sub, you're going to be dealing with movements that have 25 jewels or 21 jewels if you get the non-clone or ETA movement...again, the jewels don't "REALLY" matter it's the placement of the jewels, their actual usefulness in timekeeping and the overall quality of the movement that matter.

15. The size. Just FYI- many so-called "Swiss" movements are actually Asian clones... I've never had a problem with the 25 jewel ETA 2824/2836 movement clones and they're well-regarded but just know you're most likely not getting a real "Swiss" movement (IE- from Switzerland) - this is a whole 'nother thread's worth of info but you can read The Zigmeister's incredibly helpful movement teardowns and reviews.

16. Most likely not the same version or manufacturer since the factories are probably only going to produce one dial type at a time... it could be they have different versions? but it's good that you spotted that! I've personally never noticed it and as I look at pictures of former reps I see mine are the "correct" type... Again, it's one of those things you really have to check using photos! One can also swap dials, movements, crowns etc during modding...so some reps might have an awesome dial but a shitty case and some watches might have an awesome case, crown, and bracelet but a shitty dial...pop the dial onto the good case and voila!

It boils down to really doing your homework (as it seems you're trying to do- good for you!), choosing your dealer, and then choosing your watch! These reps aren't made in sterile rooms in Italy or Switzerland, they're made in Chinese factories, homes, by off-shift employees, maybe children, who knows? Then they're shipped halfway across the world in a ball of tape or other means of transportation and considering this, they're actually quite accurate and reliable for the price!

I hope that in addition to purchasing your first great Rolex rep, you consider purchasing the upgraded "Supporter" or "Platinum" membership here on RWG so that you can sell watches to other forum members, post trades, and contribute back to the forum for all the knowledge and advice you've found in your search! Bon chance!

[m3man]

Spidey and Shundi, I can't thank you both enough for the help! You are both gentlemen and scholars! Now that you have cleared up my questions I have decided to wait to purchase a WM9 V2 LV from BK as soon as they go on preorder. HA listen to me speaking in replica tongue.

Anyway thanks again so much, in the mean time while I wait for the preorder and arrival I will keep reading up increasing my replica knowledge.

I will be sure to take pictures and post them of the V2 LV as soon as it arrives!

Thanks again!

Josh

[Shundi]

Spidey and Shundi, I can't thank you both enough for the help! You are both gentlemen and scholars! Now that you have cleared up my questions I have decided to wait to purchase a WM9 V2 LV from BK as soon as they go on preorder. HA listen to me speaking in replica tongue.

Anyway thanks again so much, in the mean time while I wait for the preorder and arrival I will keep reading up increasing my replica knowledge.

I will be sure to take pictures and post them of the V2 LV as soon as it arrives!

Thanks again!

Josh

We were all there once my friend...

[Spidey7]

I'm STILL there!!

[Noel Fleischer]

wow- that's alot of Q & A's. in short you can't go wrong with BK. the WM9 he sells is expensive,

you can get a Noobmariner from many dealers for $100-200 on the average. it depends on the mov't.

the Asians 21J is cheaper and quite reliable. to get Swiss is about $80-100 more. nowadays its hard to find the real Swiss 25 J

mov'ts. most of the time you'll end up with a 25J Asian Clone version, even if they advertise Swiss.

good luck, like most Noobs (not Noob factory BTW) you'll come for the rolex and soon start buying other brands like Panerai or

Breitling.

[blue_sphere]

Shundi you have my infinite respect sir for posting that all out. Spidey you as well!

[Spidey7]

Shundi you have my infinite respect sir for posting that all out. Spidey you as well!

Why thank you, good sir. I just want you to know that I also think the WORLD of you. (Get it? "Blue Sphere"? Get it? Huh? Do ya?)

[Submariner40]

That was a great post with great replies, im also very new but that just answered most of my questions!

[Shundi]

@ Blue_Sphere: Please...the first thing I did on this forum was read, read read. I saw that I wasn't supposed to message members...etc.

What'd I do?

I forget the first rep I purchased off these boards...maybe Azerbyjam still has the PM...but I believe I PM'd him about the SFSO and I THINK (not certain though, he probably doesn't have it) I PM'd Pugwash about... no wait, I PM'd Pugwash about a SFSO and ABJ about PT's website? I'm not sure, either of them can chime in if they remember but Pugwash's signature back then (Yeah, I remember when he had a non-temp signature!) said "Please don't PM me about watches/dealers...I'm just some guy"

The point is, he could have just not responded and left me frustrated and further confused but instead he helped me and I told myself I'd need to give something back to the forum after finding all this wonderful information on watches (let alone replicas!)...

Now I'm to the point where my girlfriend thinks I'm crazy to type up a review on a watch when I've got some downtime at work/ am in a meeting and can't understand my need for more than one watch

I'd say 85% of the first time/new posters who ask questions get their answers, get their watches, and are never heard from again (unless there's a problem or they need new watches...)... I guess it's the other 15% that make this place amazing!

[m3man]

spidey7 you said both 3 and 5 tick marks can be correct depending on the year made, do you know when the 5 tick marks were made? I can't seem to find a pic of a gen with 5 tick marks "Swiss Made"

[Spidey7]

Oh that, I just made that up so I could look like I knew more then Shundi...........Just kidding. I'll dig up that info when I get home. I'm out having my bikini line waxed for a photo shoot tomorow and only have my iPhone, but ONLY if you become a member. We desperately need your pledge dollars, and if you call in now you'll get this attractive travel tote with the RWG logo on the side.

[L8terz]

Phenomenal post. I'd really like to thank the Veterans who stepped up and really put in the effort of answering all of m3man's questions. I've been a member on many other forums and would have to say that these type of replys would have never happened. Most often you'd get a "Jerk veteran" that will say "Search the forum."

I am also new to the whole world of Replicas. I've probably owned about 20 of them from all over the globe courtesy of the United States Air force. But I would have never thought there would be actually a forum with ; as it seems a huge amount of aficionado's such as myself. Some of you guys should have RPHD (Replica P.H.D ) next to your name. Who knew Replicas could be such a science.

I am happy to be a part of this and I applaud each and every one of you in helping to eliminate a lot of the " Grey area" surrounding replica watches.

[Brightight]

Note that this post is from 18 months ago and very out of date. It can be dangerous to post in such old threads and bring them to the fore as not every noob will look at the dates. Eurotimez for example is defunct.

[L8terz]

Completely understood. My intention was to merely compliment the users. That's all. Thanks for the heads up.