breitling&omega Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I've heard that IWC has in house movement, I believe this is true for some of their models. I've also heard that some IWC's such as the pilot line uses the valjoux 7750 but is a modified version of this movement. Can someone elaborate on these ideas and confirm if these statements are accurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Most of the chrono's such as the 3714 are based on the Valjoux 7750. However, their Big Pilots, Porto 5001's are based on their in house 7 days movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 As b16 has said, most of the chronos are based on the 7750. Even the IWC caliber 79230 is an ETA/Valjoux 7750 base, and modified to add the doppel chrono complication. Their history with pocket watches (FA Jones style) has them using their in house movements in the dress watches for the most port (not quite accurate but hey...). From Wiki: Most modern movements in watches of IWC are based on movements supplied by ETA and heavily modified by IWC. This is common practice by many high end watch marques. In particular, the Caliber 30110 is a modified ETA 2892A2, and the Caliber 79230/79320/79350 is a modified ETA/Valjoux 7750. Like all high end automatic watches, IWC watches lose or gain approximately 4 seconds a day. Movements not based on ETA movements include the Caliber 5000 and the Caliber 8000, which use the Pellaton winding system, and the pocket watch movements used in the Portuguese F.A. Jones and other IWC pocket watches. IWC also uses a JLC meca-quartz movement in their Portofino chronographs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hublot1 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) When a 7750 ain't a 7750 any longer -- Reworking the workhorse Valjoux 7750 http://www.timezone.com/library/comarticle...681571896618891 Also the GST Alarm line discontinued now ref 3537 used the Jaeger Le Coultre Menovox in house movement Cal 916 or 917 Hope that helps! Edited March 27, 2009 by hublot1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breitling&omega Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 thank you guys. so I guess both those statements were correct. I have not yet pulled the trigger to buying a top gun gen as I believe they are overpriced. other companies with the same movement like omega, probably no less quality are selling their products for much less. Conversely, Breitling avengers are listed at 4.5k while the blacksteel version is approx 1k more. In comparison, IWC pilot is also listed at 4.5k, but the ceramic is 2.5k more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 thank you guys. so I guess both those statements were correct. I have not yet pulled the trigger to buying a top gun gen as I believe they are overpriced. other companies with the same movement like omega, probably no less quality are selling their products for much less. Conversely, Breitling avengers are listed at 4.5k while the blacksteel version is approx 1k more. In comparison, IWC pilot is also listed at 4.5k, but the ceramic is 2.5k more. From a marketing perspective, they do charge more for exotic materials (even if they aren't really all that exotic) as is the case with ceramic. Both IWC and Omega rework base movements and modules from other companies...re-working including rhodium plating, perlage application, different module addition, etc. As Hublot's article reference indicates, TZ folks would have you believe the reworking creates a totally different movement...which is true in some respects...but when looking at gens, the quality of finish of Omegas vs. IWC will still both be very high. When it comes to "value" determination in a luxury watch...it's a very tricky calculation...as the pricing is all based on what the company thinks they can sell stuff for and not what they're worth in terms of technology, cost of materials, etc. A good example is the BS vs. Avenger as you indicated being $1K more, even though the coating probably costs <$100 for the physical application. Market that as a limited edition item and create a higher demand ratio by reducing supply, and you can rationalize a higher price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asim Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 also their chronos for the da vinci line is in fact in-house movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breitling&omega Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 well said Toadtorrent. In the future, I will likely pick up something from IWC but the price has to be right. Some think the 3717 will get larger from its current 42mm size, but since it was a 2008 model, I highly doubt a replacement will be anytime soon. With that said, others were also hoping the 3789 TG would loose the engravement but that too was just introduced not too long right after the 3799 back in 2007. Somehow, I think IWC would not add another ceramic TG anytime soon as there are enough versions out there already. Surely, if they do go ahead I think it will [censored] off a lot of people who bought the 3789 or 3799 as it would definitely cause these to loose value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 also their chronos for the da vinci line is in fact in-house movements. These are of course in another category. Technically I guess...the DG2813 movement is in-house to the factory...so it's really a matter of what an in-house company takes as an approach to marketing and pricing. I use Seiko as an example. They have a lot of mech movements...but many of their autos are only a few hundred dollars. They probably run as "accurately" as any other COSC certified movement...but Seiko has chosen to market their watches in cheaper autos, as well as more expensive ones in the case of some of the limited access Japanese/Asian market ones. The Omega Vision series are in-house movements...but from what I can gather, aside from the co-axial addition, MOST of the innovation was in the finishing process rather than technical innovation...beautiful mind you...but technically nothing like a crazy double/orbital tourby with liquid-goo power reserve indicator and minute repeater function that will ding the tune of the Bohemian Rhapsody with mechanical bells while animating some gold bejewelled figures dancing the chorus line from Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation Tour. As to what IWC will do...they seem to have 2 camps in their marketing department. The "innovative" camp that comes out with "new" products like VINTAGE inspired design pieces...ok...maybe not so innovative. And the other "room" which has come up with new colour schemes and stuff for what seems to be an annual release limited edition approach (e.g. the Cousteau Divers in 2006, 2007 and 2008 models as well as the Boesch edition...and now the various years of TG...kind of like AP and their ROOS...how many freakin' colour combos can you come up with?????) That being said, I still like their watches a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breitling&omega Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Can someone also explain if there are any differences in the finish/case material between the older 3786 doppel versus the more recent TG 3799 and 3789. I've heard that the 3786 was take from a blank while the newer ceramics are injection molded? Are these allegations true with these watches? If not, are there differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asim Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 These are of course in another category. Technically I guess...the DG2813 movement is in-house to the factory...so it's really a matter of what an in-house company takes as an approach to marketing and pricing. I use Seiko as an example. They have a lot of mech movements...but many of their autos are only a few hundred dollars. They probably run as "accurately" as any other COSC certified movement...but Seiko has chosen to market their watches in cheaper autos, as well as more expensive ones in the case of some of the limited access Japanese/Asian market ones. The Omega Vision series are in-house movements...but from what I can gather, aside from the co-axial addition, MOST of the innovation was in the finishing process rather than technical innovation...beautiful mind you...but technically nothing like a crazy double/orbital tourby with liquid-goo power reserve indicator and minute repeater function that will ding the tune of the Bohemian Rhapsody with mechanical bells while animating some gold bejewelled figures dancing the chorus line from Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation Tour. As to what IWC will do...they seem to have 2 camps in their marketing department. The "innovative" camp that comes out with "new" products like VINTAGE inspired design pieces...ok...maybe not so innovative. And the other "room" which has come up with new colour schemes and stuff for what seems to be an annual release limited edition approach (e.g. the Cousteau Divers in 2006, 2007 and 2008 models as well as the Boesch edition...and now the various years of TG...kind of like AP and their ROOS...how many freakin' colour combos can you come up with?????) That being said, I still like their watches a lot. can't agree more. I really see your point with the different parties at IWC with their own agendas as such. Like yourself, there are lots of 50/50 looking watches, but overall, I still love them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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