Prsist Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) "I disagree with your comments about lead time. The watch cases and components are being mass produced by machinists who specialize in only that. They (on average) have one watch coming off the line every 17 minutes. If they are able to sustain the production of one watch in every 17 minutes, then there is no lead time. All of the set up, design work, equipment, etc. has already been there doing this same thing over and over for years since their designs really haven't changed. Sure, they are replacing CNC and EDM equipment, and that is a legitimate expense, but they don't have engineers redesigning designs that haven't been changed in decades which would cause a great deal of lead time. If they're putting a watch out every 17 minutes, then it takes 17 minutes to make a Rolex. If it takes Thomas Prescher two years to design and build a triple axis tourbillon, then it took him two years to build that watch. They're being dishonest with the public, and that takes money away from those specialists who actually hand craft their watches. It also puts Rolex in a category in which buyers believe that the Rolex watches are super elite and made by magical watchmaking elves in Switzerland, when their facilities are like so many more that mass produce their products. I am positive that your numbers for the production costs of a steel Rolex are way off. Rolex is a non-profit organization that gives enormous dollar amounts to charities, sporting events, etc. The retailers can make a fortune by selling Rolex watches due to their monstrous dollars given to marketing. But Paul Gerber can't get his watches into most retail stores because Rolex has taken most of his space and their marketing half truths have misled the retailers and customers into believing things about Rolexes that hurt people like Paul Gerber. Rolex is a fraud as far as I'm concerned. Many other brands do the same thing. But Stauer et al get all the heat due to them putting retail prices on their products that are in line with Swiss brands offering similar warranties and customer service because they sell their watches at big discounts. I'm telling you that the cost of the material for a Submariner is probably somewhere around $20.00. I'm not kidding. Look at the prices of brass and steel. Sapphire crystals are not expensive. You can buy a round sapphire crystal for $20 wholesale. Just think if you are Rolex and are mass producing them. Probably $5.00 a crystal. They don't finely finish their movements like many smaller companies do. That's why they use solid casebacks. When you're mass producing a product every 17 minutes, you don't have the time to find every single dust spec. (see Walt Odets Explorer review). Look at the pictures that Jocke has on his website of the closeups that everybody says are so nice. There are all sorts of scratches and specs on the Rolex movements. They're utilitarian. Sure they are well made, but so are many others that cost thousands of dollars less. If a replica Rolex Sub can go for $25.00 because of the labor costs in China, then what could a similarly mass produced authentic Rolex Sub go for if you don't consider the large amounts of dollars given to charities and marketing. I think the Rolex Sub should be priced similar to a Sandoz or Invicta. But it's not. Think about it. The costs of the materials absolutely MUST be similar. The cost of the labor for machining and assembly is higher for the Rolex than it is for the Sandoz or RXW, but remember that it takes approximately 17 minutes to produce a Rolex. What is the average labor rate? $20 US per hour for a Swiss factory worker? What is it in China? $1.00 US per hour? Not exactly sure, but the labor for mass produced watches is not significantly different if you look at it as one watch produced every 17 minutes. They're bangin' 'em out. One after another. Every 17 minutes. Rolex should be ashamed of themselves for their conduct. And people who bash those companies (who put similar retail prices on their products and then immediately discount them a great deal so that they can sell them for a modest margin) often times are loyal fans of the Rolex and Patek watches that ripping them off. I also think that the people who put down Stauer and others are attempting to maintain the value of their own watches so they bash other companies and call them scams." watchnet.com Edited April 2, 2009 by Prsist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I think there's a big point being missed here in the quote. For those that have experience in manufacturing, there's a big difference in the production of a Swiss movement Vs a Chinese version. First, the materials. Chinese can use a lower grade metal than Swiss. Then, consider the amount of work that goes into prepping and finish on those parts. Reading reviews on Chinese movements that have been running for a while, you'll notice debris within the movement that would not be found in a Swiss. It's all about tolerances and quality material. I doubt that you'll find too many clean rooms in a Chinese factory. The higher the tolerances, the greater the skill needed to build a quality movement. I understand where the author coming from, but the difference between the two can be likened to comparing McDonald's to El Bulli. Take also into consideration the work that goes into developing, building and marketing the brand of a gen Rolex and making a copy of it. There's so much more to this than meets the eye. Edited to reflect that the above post is a reference to a quote. I just checked my panties... crap, today's Wed? Time to change my Monday pair, man... time flies when you're having fun. At least I was able to find them this time (whew), but that's another story for another thread that maybe really doesn't really need to be shared... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Prsist, You better do some more homework as you are all wet! Please don't waste anymore time on this.... MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I f***ed up. I forgot to quote the source. I was researching on watchnet.com and copied & pasted. Mikey, don't get your panties in a bunch! Don't like it? Don't add to the post. Watch Oprah instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I f***ed up. I forgot to quote the source. I was researching on watchnet.com and copied & pasted. Mikey, don't get your panties in a bunch! Don't like it? Don't add to the post. Watch Oprah instead. My panties are fine...I think you better check yours. You should be smarter than believe in what you write. Wasted read! oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Interesting...and as usual there's the issue of how much of this is a "luxury tax" et al...you've also got to figure in benefits, taxes, retail spaces etc so the price of a gen Rolex is significantly higher than the $20 you've somewhat arbitrarily priced it at however I do agree- there's a HUGE margin on these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 My panties are fine...I think you better check yours. You should be smarter than believe in what you write. Wasted read! oops 1. Don't wear panties, I'm a man, I go commando. 2. Either your powers of observation fail you or your GED is worthless. 2a. I never said I believed what I posted. 2b. I thought it was an interesting read not the missing gospel. 3. The quotes, source after the post, and my admission I erred in not properly giving credit to the originator of the quote. You still fail to see I'm not the author of what I posted? Good lord! Check out the University of Phoenix. There is life beyond flipping fries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Ok, so the manufacturing costs, overhead, advertising, charitable donations and other non-sense... the Rolex Submariner costs Rolex $1000 to produce. They are still selling for 5 times that. AND WHY you might ask... BECAUSE THEY CAN SELL THEM FOR THAT. Read the nuts over on RF. They are all convinced that the Rolex watches that they cherish were created by God himself. They are the victims of YEARS of great marketing (kinda like Jehovah's Witnesses if you ask me) Dont get me wrong, I like Rolex's... But unless I can get a screaming deal on it and make some money when I flip it in 6 months... Im not paying what Rolex is asking. How much does a NoobMariner cost to produce? The same $20??? I doubt it, but for the sake of argument... lets say it does. And what do we pay for it??? YEP, 5 times that or more. I guess when your all done with the BS, we are all crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Please help me out here! I have to be missing something. I post an article I thought would be an interesting read. I post an edit explaining I read it on another website. THESE ARE NOT MY THOUGHTS. Just something I found interesting. Please tell me there are other members on the forum that didn't ride the short bus as a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 C'mon guys....give it a rest. Prsist found something on the net....posted it here. We can discuss it....but no need to get pesonal about it. He has mentioned a couple o times now that these are not his thoughts. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 C'mon guys....give it a rest. Prsist found something on the net....posted it here. We can discuss it....but no need to get pesonal about it. He has mentioned a couple o times now that these are not his thoughts. Peace Thank you Samurai. That's the point I was trying to get across. I do apologize for getting a little hot under the collar. Mike, I extend an olive branch of friendship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Rolex is a non-profit organization :rofl: :rofl: Oh dearie me, I needed a good laugh. If only. Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Thank you Samurai. That's the point I was trying to get across. I do apologize for getting a little hot under the collar. Mike, I extend an olive branch of friendship. Accepted my friend... MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 :rofl: :rofl: Oh dearie me, I needed a good laugh. If only. Col. Rolex is owned by a charitable trust.. they do not distribute profits to shareholders. In accounting terms that makes them "non profit" although they clearly do make substantial gains from their operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhydro Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 And I agreeeeee.... Prsist, if I'd'a found that I woulda posted it too. The person who wrote it really doesn't know much about manufacturing.... a production RATE of one every 17 minutes has nothing at all to do with LEAD TIME. I'm a manufacturing engineer, I deal with this kinda stuff daily. In my industry, we might produce hydraulic pumps on a line at a rate of one every five minutes... but the part with the longest lead time was started into production almost a year ago to wind up on that line today! That being said, I'm quite sure that Rolex is really a non-profit organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 "Rolex is owned by a charitable trust.. they do not distribute profits to shareholders. In accounting terms that makes them "non profit" although they clearly do make substantial gains from their operations." Im not so sure about... Rolex Watch, USA is a licensed FOR PROFIT corporation in the State of New York... Here is the registration information. NYS Department of State Division of Corporations Entity Information Selected Entity Name: PORTA BELLA PITKIN LLC Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: ROLEX WATCH U.S.A., INC. Initial DOS Filing Date: JANUARY 29, 1948 County: NEW YORK Jurisdiction: NEW YORK Entity Type: DOMESTIC BUSINESS CORPORATION Current Entity Status: ACTIVE Selected Entity Address Information DOS Process (Address to which DOS will mail process if accepted on behalf of the entity) ROLEX WATCH U.S.A., INC. 665 FIFTH AVENUE NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10022 Chairman or Chief Executive Officer ALLEN BRILL 665 FIFTH AVE NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10022 Principal Executive Office ROLEX WATCH U.S.A., INC. 665 FIFTH AVE NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10022 Registered Agent NONE The Swiss registration can be found here... Apparently they are registered as a for profit entity there also. http://rc.geneve.ch/rc/consultation/consul...H-660-0012920-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 An interesting read, thanks for sharing I've been saying for years that many 'prestige products' are simply the result of clever advertising and hype. I won't deny that there are not some products available which are actually worth their prestige pricetag, but a Rolex sure isn't one of them. If they (as a company) were to get off their elitist high-horse, and start using regular grade materials, rather than smelting their own alloys, then they would be totally unable to justify the price tags. As has been pointed out to me in the past, the Submariner was never intended to be a 'prestige timepiece', it was designed and sold as a very functional tool watch. It would have been purchased, as a tool, a piece of equipment, by people who needed a reliable waterproof timepiece for diving, not as a fashion accessory. Over the years, Rolex, as a company, has taken its goals in other directions, and is now marketing 'fashion items', rather than 'functional timepieces'. The latest 'revelations' at Basel showed just how far from their original market Rolex has gone. Viewing a Sub as a 'tool watch', rather than a 'fashion watch', I would say that buying a rep, is like buying a hammer or a crow-bar from the Dollar Store, rather than going to Harry's Hardware, and buying a branded item. It'll look pretty much the same, and do pretty much the same job. It just might not last as long As for the $20 comment, I have a $20 GMT on it's way to me right now (a prize for an upcoming stag do) as well as a $20 Yacht-Master, which will be providing some 'parts' for a repair/rebuild project. I haven't done a review in a while, and will be happy to do a review of them, and we can see how they compare to the watches which our dealers are charging +/- $100 for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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