exeekias

Ah well, I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I guess you guys are right.

Nop sorry, not Marketing. I used to do archaeology, now Accounting Well, it may very well be cost-cutting as you say; it just looked more to me like the decision was taken due to a bottlneck in production rather than to the cost savings, which was minimal and vastly overshadowed by the potential (and now actual) damage the "scandal" has done and will do to the brand, in terms of trademark value, goodwill, and Its impact on future sales. I mean, for most all these marques you are buying "the brand": the image it projects, its rich history, what famous events are timed/sponsored by it, what celebrities are seen wearing it, and then qualities of the watch: its accuracy, its precision, how complex and unique it is, what materials is it made of, its philosophy of design. First and foremost the watch is a fashion statement, so yeah the materials that go in it should be of high quality, but retailers sell "The Brand", of which the actual physical watch you purchase is only a small part. And like you say, if believe otherwise you are fooling yourself. A watch gets progressively closer I think to meeting the standard of quality justifying the retail price when precious and/or exotic materials, or when inhouse movements and/or movements with multiple complications are used. And there is a point at which you can match the quality level in a artisan, generic or replica watch and have it at a price that is almost wholly based on cost of production; without paying for "the brand," in other words. And a replica, well if its good enough to be mimetic of the brand to the point where it is functionally and visually indistinguishable from the gen, then the wearer of that watch gets "the brand" for free, more or less. And that's our hobby, at least one aspect of it. So I guess people are upset at Panerai because they had been publicly striving for greater status and exclusivity by moving towards inhouse movements, and this 318 represents a step backward, maybe an intentional one, to down-market the brand. In New York City, the fashion capital. I can see that happening. It may even help our hobby. If some of these companies are that cynical, I wouldn't doubt if they were making gen parts available to us at suitably high prices through back channels while decrying replicas out the other side of their mouth. This all sounds very Swiss to me, somehow.

I agree, WM, owning up to the mistake and making it right will go a long way to repairing the damage done. I see you are closing in on 10k posts, got something special planned?

I've been thinking about this. It makes no sense to me that Panerai would have purposefully used unfinished movements to increase profit. The total run of 150 watches is so low, how much are they really saving, 150k? 300k? Richemont group had Gross sales of €6892 million and Net Profit of €1079 million in 2011 (according to their financials). 300k is a drop in that bucket, and they could stand to lose much more from this incident than they saved in terms of Goodwill (which they listed at €441 million in 2011). It seems much more likely to me that they were against some deadline, had to rush this special edition out the door, and ran into a supply problem on finished movements.

Guess I'd better be careful then!

That one looks nice! Well, I guess if I screw it up I could always buy one like yours and transplant the dial. Yours has a display back though, right?

Thanks very much for the help and encouragement. Have you tried taking one of these apart before? I'm wondering if there is some sort of lip at the bottom of the threads or if the rod I use should take up the full diameter of the hole.

Ok, Ill give it a shot. I'll need to work up the courage though. Thanks tx!

Thanks for the reply! Here are a couple open caseback pics: I can't really see down inside the holes but from the flash pic you can see that the threads for the caseback screws are in the case itself. Could these screws be glued in?

Hi All, I hope an AP expert out there can help me with this one. I have this 38mm RO rep, not sure what model it is (15300?) but maybe someone can tell from the caseback engraving: Don't try to ID it from the dial, that's gen I have worn this for a couple years now and it has gotten some scratches--the pic I posted is an old one. I want to remove the bezel so I can give it and the case a proper rebrushing. Unfortunately, when I open it, it does not have the same type of construction as the ROO reps I've seen in the "how to remove the ROO bezel" threads. There are no ends of bezel screws poking through, and no indication of any securing nuts, just holes where the caseback screws go. I can't seem to figure out how to get the bezel screws out and the bezel off. Are they secured inside the case, or can I just push or tap them out with a metal rod? I don't want to break anything, so hopefully someone will know the correct way to get them out. I can open the caseback and take a pic if necessary. Thanks!

Tang for handwinds, deployant for automatics works for me The Panerai deployant is way more comfortable than the IWC one.

The dial was just barely big enough to fit the case. I had to center it properly on the movement holder with dial dots before installation.

Thanks guys

Thanks! I'm seriously considering AR for it, yeah. I would go for one of Aaron's straps but the last one I got from him took a looong time.

Hi all, I bought a Mark XV from Hont just before CNY in order to do some mods on it. I could only get the Spitfire version from Hont so there isn't really a direct comparison before & after. The rep came without AR and with what is probably a clone 2824 movement. I hope the crystal is sapphire but who knows. It also came with a cheapo plastic movement holder which is unfortunate but there's not much i can do unless I find one in the right size to fit the case. Overall the rep is of decent quality, the caseback is incorrect as with all of them, and I am positive the case is about 1.5 mm too thick as well when compared to the gen. I added a gen dial of the non Spitfire type, replaced the hands with Bill Yao hour and minute hands which are just about the proper length, size and shape, and painted the second hand white as the Bill Yao hand had more of a teardrop shape on the end than the gen. I also replaced the date wheel with one from a 2892. I know there are better franken Mark XVs out there (saw one on this forum last year for ex.) but I'm pretty happy with my results. I'd be interested in hearing what you IWC lovers think. overall specs: rep case 39mm rep steel bracelet sapphire? crystal eta? 2824 movement gen Mark XV dial Bill Yao hands rep second hand repainted white to match gen eta 2892 date wheel installed Here are the results. "before" pic taken by hont, before he replaced the band with SS: and "after": Family photo with my v3 3717, which has no mods other than taka's crystal installed. Lume! 1/2 sec exposure as you can see: Wristie: The caseback is of course incorrect but not much I can do about that, unless I can find a sticker or something to cover the "UTC". If anyone knows where I can find a sticker please let me know. future plans: I may end up getting AR coating done on it to match my 3717. As of now it doesn't look too bad, if you think of it as a rep of the older model without AR. I'm also thinking of getting a leather strap for it so if anyone has suggestions for a good one I'm all ears. P.S. Cross-posting this from RWI as there are some people here who don't go there. Hope you don't mind.

some great tips in here, thanks guys! I think I'll try the ammonia.

Thanks very much for the comments @Katerchen: it was sold to me as an MBW, I have no idea if it is or not, the seller I'm sure didn't misrepresent it but I'll take your word for it. The caseback is solid and says "No. 4206" and below that "E-23473" which is probably no help at all. I still don't know about the bezel screws, maybe I'll try to find some in a less yellow tone at some point. Whatever it is, I'm enjoying it for sure

Hi all, I don't post here much but I thought since you have a special AP forum you guys might like this I got this MBW Royal Oak w/ 39mm case off another forum so that the gen dial I had bought off the 'bay could have a home. It was an easy swap, and here are the results. I'm no expert on AP by any means, so I really have no idea as far as accuracy to the gen, but I'd love to hear any comments and suggestions along those lines. I'm definitely trying to improve my knowledge of the extensive Royal Oak line. Here's a before shot: Here is a comparison of the gen dial on the left and the rep dial/mov't on the right. The rep dial is pretty close. I'm not sure if the rep is based on exactly the same model as my dial. The gen was .5mm smaller in diameter. Main differences are the AP logo and text, both of which are bigger on the rep. Also, although it's hard to tell from the pics, the guilloche/waffle pattern (please help me out if there's a specific term I'm missing) on the gen produces an almost 3-D starburst effect that is absent from the rep. On the whole though, while the rep dial is pretty good, it is definitely lacking in "richness" compared to the gen. Here are a couple shots of the dial installed, first outdoors then indoors. The gen dial has a couple scratches in it, which thankfully are not at all noticeable with it installed, unless you look really really close. I think the lack of AR helps in this respect: I don't know if the yellow gold screws are accurate or not for this model (I suspect not), but they look nice and provide a neat contrast to the blue dial, so I think I'll keep them rather than digging them out and replacing them, or having them somehow redone with white gold plating (if that is even possible). If any of you know what exact model RO this rep is supposed to be based on, and whether or not the screws are accurate, please do let me know. I also relumed the hands, as the rep lume was very poor compared to the gen. The hands are still not quite the same brightness, but I think this is due to the width difference between the hands and markers. Anyway here's a lume shot of the finished product: And the obligatory wristie. You can sort of see the starburst effect of the guilloche in this shot: So, there's my latest project. I hope you all like it

That looks fantastic, very nice work. I hope you let us know where you got the gen dial, I wouldn't mind picking one of those up myself.

Thanks very much. Good luck on the project ironmarshal, please post the results when you are finished so I (and everyone) can see. I've been thinking about a SMP project myself

Thanks! I got it off ebay, 100ish. That's not the box the gen overseas usually comes in though. The real overseas box looks more like a toiletry bag.

Thanks very much for the compliments.

kruzer, there were two white dials on ebay a couple weeks ago. They were kind of useless though, as they were being sold without the rehauts

Thanks for the feedback I got the dial and hands off the 'bay.

Thanks very much kruzer. I read this forum a lot, I just don't post here much I would love to see you guys finish your projects, especially one with the VC date font. I'd love to hear the details on that: the 7750 date wheel was the closest thing I could think of, and that mod was kind of a PITA.