Jack1024

It is just you, the sweep looks awesome by the way. I actually like this movement better than the clone ETA, they are excellent! I bought a pair of these from ETz and put one in my SSD. It was a fantastic and cheap upgrade. These should be pretty reliable too, I took apart the backup movement and it was immaculately clean and well lubed. Let it break in, and then regulate it, you will be amazed at how close you can get to COSC. Mine is consistently running +1.5 secs a day, every day. Jack

Ha no way. I doubt even an AD could spot this as a fake without taking the back off. J

I saw this, I think the caption reads something like 'this is what a million GBP looks like'

While I have certainly heard that about the CHS versions. I have not heard any claims of issues surrounding the ICHS version of the 2386 as long as you actually got a gen ETA. This is simply 1 gear driven from the date, and from my understanding, the very same parts as the 2893. This article sums it up: (sorry for the other-board post, I'm on a lot of these, and this is where I knew where to find it) http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=4712

There just isn't any point to using a 2893 over a 2836 for GMT functions. All of them have the WHS, and the gmt gears that are used to modify the 2836 are simply replacement parts for the 2893. Don't waste your time and money to get the same thing you get anyway.

Is this the one from Josh/Andrew? There is absolutely no point in subbing in your gen ETA. The clone ETA is reasonably reliable and the sweep is the same. If anything, find yourself an ETA 2846, which has (close to) the correct beat for this watch.

Hi Guys, For the $98 DRSD that Josh & Andrew are selling, here is the time-o-graph pic from Josh's website showing the 28800 beat. Check it out: If anybody knows more about how to read this thing, please chime in. I'd like to understand how accurate this movement is. I am personally very happy to see this inexpensive choice in movements appear. The 21J has always been fairly solid when clean and clear of muck, now it will have a realistic sweep as well. Jack

Not only that, it is likely you will get the slow beat version. (middle movement) J

I'm not going to get into the "I love you, man"'s (not nearly enough to drink yet for that...LOL) but it would be truly cool to see it in the watch! Any luck with a gen-like bezel?

I have to tell you that the 4813 (like the one on the right in the pic above) is awesome! I have it in my SSD (it replaced the silver dud on the left, which doesn't hack) and it is < +/- 2 seconds a day off. I did regulate it, but that took exactly one round with the tiniest adjustment on the arm to slow it down from about 7 seconds a day fast. The sweep is as smooth as butter. This is seriously impressive for a $25 movement (ETz has'em). I am always happy getting good stuff for cheap! J

That is what I want to know!

I could see that for 200, a pretty small amount to spool up the assembly line for. But not for 20k of them.... I would think they should be about $4-5 bucks a pop after about 3-5k of them to pay for the spin up. I would guess that the only differences would be the hairspring, the balance and the escape wheel, wouldn't the rest of the parts be the same as the standard beat model?

Well if the MOQ is 200, how about 200? Then lets go big or stay home... how about 20k? Just for fun....

I should add it is also possible to speed up the beat by stiffening up the hairspring. And in a way alligoat, you are right. Despite what we keep hearing, size doesn't matter, but mass does. I do agree that the only way to be sure is put it on a machine that is capable of measuring the beat. You can hear the difference of the 'tick' between 21600 and 28800, but measure it accurately... no way. Jack

Of course it does! How do you think you regulate the watch? By moving the center of mass of the balance further or closer to the axis of rotation. Closer is faster, farther is slower. You can see this with the gen rolex movement with the microstella screws. When they are unscrewed, the center of mass moves closer to the balance axle (AKA escape wheel pinion), speeding up the beat. When they are screwed in the center of mass moves outward, slowing it down. The ETA (and the 21j also) has a more complex way of doing this, the balance mass is actually movable via the regulator. Lets take the example of a pendulum, which is in effect what the balance is, just a circular one. If you make the pendulum longer (or the balance wider, center of mass outward) it cycles more slowly. If you make it shorter (or the balance more narrow, center of mass inward), it cycles more quickly. Ideally you have the mass in exactly the right place so that the watch beats at exactly 4 hz (in the case of a 28800 bph movement) From there it is all reduction gearing through the wheels to make the second hand move at 1 RPM, the minute hand 1/60th of an RPM, and the hour hand move 1/3600th of an RPM. All from a balance that oscillates at 4 times per second (28800), or 3 times per second (21600). All of this is driven by the mainspring which both drives the balance oscillator, and controlled by it, via the escapement mechanism. Jack

It seems clear to me that we have a new revision of the 5.4mm DG2813 (the 4813 is about 4.6 mm) on the rep scene. This probably has happened due to the ETA shortage. Check this out: 21J movements from my junk drawer: All three - note the size of the balance wheels: For the next pics... take note the edge of the balance to the edge of the movement chassis. The pics are a little blurry (iPhone...SORRY) but I think they show my point. Known Slow Beat 2813 (Had a typical 21j tick-tock sweep): Sold to me as fast beat (I don't believe it for a second, had a VERY lumpy sweep, even worse than the silver one) Known 28800 beat rate (I have another one just like it in my SSD.. the sweep is virtually indistinguishable from ETA) Josh/Andrew's 21J GWSD (Claimed to be 28800) What do you guys make of that?

Nice.... 0 for 2.

Oh.... just noticed that may actually be the fast beat dg2813... It has the smaller balance wheel I have seen in the 4813s.

NICE... Seems like a great way to get a case and the excellent bracelet - it just so happens to have a movement in it. If that is a dud.. so what! My style of mod project... CHEAP!

Nice. This hasn't been stricken from my list yet, so maybe there is hope. I have looked at a few MBW/MBKs, but it seems the new style of them really isn't any better. J

Probably because even though they are definitely guilty of some extreme 'marketing' they provide generally good customer service. I have had pretty decent luck with both of them. That said, they are certainly the used car dealers of our bunch.... make sure you know what you are doing, and you will be fine. J

Any news on this? Did you get your Clarks?

Good to know... I suspected this really wasn't even close. You just saved me a couple hundred bucks. (Thanks man!) J

I've seen it for a while. Actually thinking of ordering it to see if it is what it looks like it is. The other cartel brother's doesn't have lugholes, so I'm suspicious.

http://www.tt88time.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=601 This is the closest I've 14060 I've seen. J