babola

Nice GMT, but like the 091 better...sorry cheers, babola

H series only; made in 2005 in 1000 pieces ltd edition; CDG decorated bridges, ETA 6497-2 mov't with S/N regulator as used in Historic PAM 44mm watches today. cheers, babola

Excellent find, and at the awesome price. Not sure about you guys but dishing out $75 for Palp's crown was never high on my agenda, and I always though the price was rediculous...this now changes the fact ! cheers, babola

How about the rest of us start posting in Swedish...just to show off...

Thanks Rob, on a closer inspection this is the link to the exact same 'Swiss ETA 6497-1' movement that comes in my Fiddy from Andrew: http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3900 It had been offered by River for some time as a spare part. All the current Swiss ETA PAM127 Fiddy's come with this very movement in them. I examined the pics of 127s from Joshua, Eddie Lee, River, Andrew, Ruby, Sillix - just about all of our dealers, and they all come with this particular movement, same [censored] & bridge config as you've identified. The only diference is the case design (E0117/1950 or E0851/1950) and quality, and wheather the watch comes with Super Luminova and A/R sapphire or not. They (dealers) all refer to it mostly as "THE BEST", and price vary from high $200s to high $400s, depending on a dealer. These PAMs came onto the market roughly about the same time, beginning of July '06. The only exception to the rule is the latest Eddie Lee's PAM127 he adverised this week "THE BEST Sept 2006", that comes with slightly diferent 6497-1 mov't, but even he is unsure if it's genuine Swiss 6497 or not, although the ad says 100% Swiss ETA. Pics of the latest Eddie's Fiddy can be seen here: http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/300...%202006%201950/ So, in retrospect, I guess we're either all 'doomed' with our Swiss ETA 6497 purchased from these dealers form July onwards, or we all got it right...only the time will tell...:-) cheers, babola

Took my new Fiddy from Andrew (Trusty) to my watchmaker for check-up & servicing if required. It cost me an arm and a leg but this is what he came up with ...and he's been in this business for over 30 years. - upon quick inspection thru the caseback crystal before openning it, he yelled straigh away - "Asian copy !" - then he had another look, again thru the caseback and said, hmm, this is interesting..."maybe not !" - I left him with my watch on Wednesday morning, asked for check-up of potential "hairspring and [censored]" issue and to oil it if required. - he calls me on Thursday afternoon - he said I will be in for a "surprise". Also, The [censored] and hairspring were all OK. The movement was oiled but only slightly, so he re-oiled it. - so, to cut it short, he told me the base movement was Swiss ETA - HOWEVER - a mixed pot of older and never ETA parts as well as Asian decorated bridges (well no surprise there we all knew about the bridges already) It seems like the balance wheel is real ETA (at least that's what he said) but taken from older style ETA 6497 mov't. He also pointed out that the finish on other wheels (sorry guys, forgot the name of those) was not as good as the finish we see on todays ETAs but the older ones did have this kind of rugged finish. The mainplate he says is OLD style ETA too, and that the ETA stamp is correct one - he actually compared it with an ETA mainplate he had from a 60 year old pocket watch, he said the stamp was the same. Other parts he said were the same as he had seen on new style ETAs. Screws were combination of old and new style. At the end of it he really got puzzled how the rep makers were able to find and combine so many "old' style ETA parts with the new ones in the same movement. Either that, or this is the case of trying to painstakingly reproduce the old style ETA mov't as Asian ETA 6497 replica, with the level of detail and finish far exceeding today's ETA mov't copies, but he couldn't see the point in that as it would be much easier to copy new ETA. So he confirmed it was ETA movement with mostly original Swiss ETA parts, excluding bridges and some other decorations. I guess I can rest assured now, at least I believe so :-) cheers, babola

I believe they started using brushed crowns from 2004 on Historic PAMs (Base and Marina), that means Series G, H and I. Of course some of the contemporary models (auto's etc) have had brushed crown guards from their conception. Hey, if this is really Sillix crown than we could finally expect some "normal" pricing e.g $30 or so, without having to dish out $75 for one of Palpatine's. cheers, babola

Die-hard PO fanatics here will tell you that most of the dealers/rep_makers are still on Gen 4 for the 42.5mm version and Gen 1 for the 45 oversized version, aka "pumpkin", and Chrono version. Paul at Wo-Mart claims his 42.5 PO black and orange bezel versions are 5-th Gen. 4th gen version had hour and minute hands too short, and the Omega logo placement too close to the Omega name. Go figure. Hard to say at the mo, really, noone can be 100% certain are we talking about gen 4, 5, 6 or something in between. cheers, babola

Careful guys, the watch Andrew lists on his web site comes with the Asian Valjoux 7750b1, which is a predecessor to the latest upgraded A7750 version dissected by The Zigmeister last month. I have emailed Andrew last week about his PAM212 watches and he listed 3 versions, none with the latest A7750 that runs at 28,800bph. cheers, babola

I've seen those installed on Davidsen's custom made watches, I doubt he would sell them separately. His ones however come with flat top, instead of slightly curved to follow the sloping contours of the case, so not perfect, again... Just about every PAM hystorical rep (Base & Marina) comes with the CG you've described. Although correct for contemporray PAM 44mm models, it's wrong on Base and Marina reps. It used to bug me as well (I own the latest 111H), however I learned to live with it :-) cheers, babola

Spot on mate, this is the E series which came with polished CG and "old" style L SWISS L on the dial. F series was the same. The "L Swiss Made L" text and move to a brushed CG finish happened with the introduction of G series in 2004. cheers, babola

What's the time currently over there now ? If it's morning, have a double cup of coffee, I know it helps me getting thru the day sometimes Nothing worth losing one's nerves for. cheers, babola

Most of the dealers (even respected ones) drop ship from Asian rep factories. In some cases it takes 2-3 days initially just to establish the communication between dealer and his rep maker after you placed an order and paid. That is where I noticed the biggest time lag, once the factory ships the re to you (usually EMS or similar) it takes between 3-5 days to reach almost anywhere in the world. Also, sometimes a dealer advertises a rep that his prefered factory has run out of...this might well happened to you my friend. I waited 3 weeks for 111H I ordered few months ago from Eddie Lee, but didn't object as he kept the good communication going for the whole duration. as they say..."patience is a virtue" cheers, babola

...and someday you may decide to include New Zealand...or should we become a republic of Australia to make it easier for some...

All I can say is that I'm glad I live in New Zealand, the well known 'live and let live' kind of country...as far as replicas go - nobody gives 'rats a$$' anyway. cheers, babola

River is currently offering 111h with Asian 6497 for $119 delivered - although the mov't is Asian, this is simply hard to beat. The next el-cheapo Asian comes from Sillix for $139. I'd stay away from Asian/Chinese ETA's if I were you, but that only represents my personal view. There are number of trusted dealers selling a 'good' PAM111H replica that some reffer to as "the best"...however although they might be the best reps at this particular time, they're far from even close to perfect. I got tired of waiting for that Swiss CDG decorated ETA with working S/N regulator in 111H, so got my 111H "the best" from Eddie Lee few months ago, albeit with non-working S/N reg. Joshua, Eddie Lee, River, Andrew, Ruby and possibly few more dealers are currently offering the very same "the best" 111H watch, the only diference being the price. Ruby (from RWI forum) currently offers the cheapest one - $249 delivered. Hope this helps a bit, but you still ought to do your own research, and boy - have you got a lot to learn cheers, babola

Just that some forumers reported inconsistencies around the lug areas, mainly uneven lug size and rough finishes. Also some Fiddies measure 16mm in thickness, some 17.5. I guess that the latter measure has got to do with the diferent (updated ?) version of crystal. cheers, babola

Can't believe this thread is still going on...

Hi Frank, yup, Andrew's 127 is definitely 'real mcCoy' Fiddy rep with all the bells and whistles. This is the latest iteration of PAM127, with Swiss ETA 6497, working S/N regulator, A/R sapphire (yes it's real 6mm thick sapphire, just like Davidsen's), case is almost 1:1, new bigger crown guard and lever, correct "1950" font on the dial, super Luminova coated hands and dial markers etc... The only obvious letdowns are still recessed pin and mediocre strap...but both can be fixed without much effort. cheers, babola

Both of my watchmakers I used in the last 12 years for work on my Seiko and Citizen divers and vintage models said - no problem as long as the mov't is Swiss. Neither wouldn't even look at the reps with Asian/Chinese mov'ts - both said they burnt their fingers too many times on those previously. They don't mind Asian 21J autos, as long as they're made by Seiko or Miyota (used for ages by Citizen in their autos) I guess this comes from the bad experience and bad press badly manufactured and finished Asian mov'ts received in the past...who knows, the new A7750 that comes stock in Daytona and PAM250 reps could start changing the tide for the better :-) cheers, babola

Most of the reps come with lever pin pushed in too far (recessed), while they sit flush with the CG on the gens. It's an easy fix on a rep, push it slightly up from the caseback side, and then slowly back in from the front until you reach that 'perfect' flush look. I also brushed the tip of the pin on mine (it came polished) making it blend in with the rest of the CG brushed surface. cheers, babola

Pete, did you get one of those new 111H with Asian 6497 with working S/N ? Eddie Lee ? cheers, babola

This is the best PAM250 rep currently being offered. There will always be 'something' wrong with the rep, my aim is to find the one with the least amount of 'issues' out-of-wack with the gen. I'm happy with this one as-is. cheers, babola

'Sasch5' dealer could be on the money...the PAM250 rep he sells is the best one I've seen so far, at least cosmetically. I believe it also comes with an updated A7750 mov't. Check the fine details on the dial - 5, 10, 15 etc numbers are almost exactly as on the gen, comes with A/R sapphire, 6 o'clock subdial is close to "perfect"...se below: http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=25624 Maybe we have a 'PAM250 version 3' here ? cheers, babola

MJP, totally agree, BTW the new PAM250 has been on my radar for some few months now, however until the majority of our dealers start offering the 'updated' version with the new A7750 and A/R coated sapphire, I'll sit still and patiently roll my thumbs...:-) Having only one or two of them having "the best" version is not enough, IMO, especially if you're after a good deal. The 'old' PAM250 as shown on your left photo isn't really PAM250 rep, the major issue being - it comes in PAM196 case, 250 case is all brushed... The 'new' PAM250 on the right still has few cosmetic problems, most notably that fugly 6 o'clock subdial (ugghhh), 5, 10, 15 etc numbers on the dial are too rough, number 12 at the top of the dial is slightly wrong, the case should be brushed with a grit one size smaller to be closer to the gen which comes with brushed finished much closer to the bead-blasted look, than brushed S/S.... etc. How's the chrono been performing so far ? cheers, babola