freddy333

21 hours ago, Cobar said:

This is only my personal opinion, but I would never buy another vintage piece, especially Rolex knowing that so many parts of changed and so many watches are just put together. I would much rather pay for a high-end vintage rep then pay an exorbitant amount for a vintage piece that ends up turning out to be a Franken.

Buy only from a long-standing, reputable (ie., they guarantee the authenticity of their wares) dealer, who specializes in vintage Rolex.

Better red than dead

4 hours ago, automatico said:

"Today's outrageous asking price for a Rolex <fill-in-the-blank> will seem like a bargain a year from now."

 

I'll be ready if these ever go up in value...and the box is five rows across,  Ha!

I do not know how long you have had the parts in that case, but gen Rolex parts have been going pretty steadily up since I began collecting. If you have not already done so, it might be time to check current values. 

Paraphrasing myself circa 2005-ish - Today's outrageous asking price for a Rolex <fill-in-the-blank> will seem like a bargain a year from now. 1 of the few constants in life.

Rolex Watch Company UK SALES HAVE QUADRUPLED IN JUST 10 YEARS and more than doubled since 2016.
BREAKING NEWS: Rolex shrugs off the pandemic with sales rocketing 13% in 2020

The average price of a Rolex Daytona has increased 34% over the past year to reach nearly $48,000.
Rolex Daytonas have outperformed the stock market over the past year as collectors pile in to the $20 billion secondary market for luxury watches

1 hour ago, Nanuq said:

I just love the Beatles.

“Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one”

Me, too. But I'm not blinded by my love of Lennon's music to take what he says too seriously. Alot of Lennon's lyrics were nonsense. Here, John attempts to explain (unsuccessfully) to young Joe Biden that Imagine wasn't intended to be a blueprint for a new political system, it was just a way to pay for another swimming pool. Watch -

1 hour ago, GShocked said:

Beatles: Back in the USSR 

The Beat Brothers may have sung the praises of socialism, but they are pure caPitalists, with a capital P (for Patek)

Paul is wearing an Aquanaut Reference 5167A, and Ringo is wearing the original 'Jumbo' Aquanaut [Reference 5065-1A]

John Lennon Yellow Gold Patek Philippe Chronograph [Reference 2499]

Wearing my Vostok Amphibian, the Soviet's version of the Doxa

6 hours ago, Nanuq said:

Maybe THESE are the good old days.

I doubt their values will reach the same astronomical levels, but if Rolex does rebrand the poor-selling Cellini line, I think Cellinis, like the 2 you posted (I have been eyeing the model on the left), may mimic the delayed-demand pattern set by the poor-selling 62xx Daytonas in the years after being discontinued. And with Rolex pulling the trigger in the midst of years-long waiting lists, media buzz about demand outstripping supply & at a time when techie types are dumping their fashionable computer watches for classically stylish gentlemen's timepieces........well, unlike the US president, I doubt anyone at Rolex is asleep at the wheel or unable to read &/or accurately get ahead of new market trends.

If you have the cash, it might be time to invest in a Rolex Cellini. Leave it in its original box/packing, untouched, in a safe place for 10 years. Then, if you are lucky, that Cellini may pay for your kid's college or your retirement.

According to a well-placed source, who asked not to be named, this year the Cellini name will be retired; with Rolex’s more artisan watches given a new name: Vienna.
Rolex rumoured to be dancing Cellini out of the door with Vienna dress watch waltzing in

Not everyone in Silicon Valley is rocking an Apple Watch. In fact, if you run into a member of Collective Horology, a close-knit and highly secretive watch-collectors club born in the country’s technology epicenter, you might spot anything from a vintage Patek to a new high-horology piece to something even more rare: an exclusive collaboration with a major watchmaker.
Inside a Secretive Silicon Valley Collective Obsessed With the Finest Watches

It looks like a standard rep that has been abused to infer patina. Unless you find the abuse to your liking, I see nothing special there (under the abuse) that cannot be purchased from most rep sellers.

7 minutes ago, GShocked said:

I'm hoping to see more mid-range divers out there, even if they can't be automatics

You are just not looking hard enough. This 1, which has become my daily beater, can still be had for less than $400. & there are alot of very cool watches out there that are within reach of virtually anyone with a pulse - & a full-time job.

A few random thoughts -

If I got a nickel every time someone complained about the rising prices of LUXURY watches, I would be able to purchase a new Air King - if I could find 1 in stock at an AD.

The LUXURY watch market is 1 of the best demonstrations of simple supply & demand I can think of. As more people dump their fashionable Dick Tracy cartoon gizmos (ie Apple 'watch') in favor of a timeless gentleman's timepiece, whether high-end or entry-level, DEMAND increases. At the same time, most of the LUXURY watch brands cannot SUPPLY more than they do because - 1. producing more would cause them to either change their established production systems or reduce quality; & 2. producing more would dilute their exclusivity, making them more accessible to more people & less 'valuable' - both in dollars & as aspirational benchmarks to those who appreciate meritocracy.

If I got a nickel every time someone predicted Rolex's eventual collapse due to their ever-increasing MSRP, I would be able to purchase a new Daytona - if I thought I would live long enough to make it to the top of the waiting list.

As has been said many times, this time next year, today's 'outrageous' vintage Rolex asking price will seem like a bargain. Since I got into watch collecting (mid-80s), there are three things that appear to be  constants - death, taxes & escalating Rolex prices (especially vintage). Rolex gentleman's watches are & will always be stylish (as opposed to fashionable). As demand (for a limited supply) increases, so do prices.

Aside from their precious metal content, I do think that many Pateks & similar haute horology pieces (that do not contain complex complications (eg, tourbillon)) are unrealistically priced. To pay $35k (MSRP) for a stainless steel Patek 5711 when a $350-$500 ETA-powered rep looks, feels & functions nearly the same, is nuts. Obviously, if you want your watch made of precious metals & do not wish to risk a simple scratch revealing your beer budget, the gen makes more sense. Likewise, if you appreciate the more technological aspects of the LUXURY watchmakers' art & have the financial wherewithal to fund that appreciation, select gens are generally good investments.

Finally, contrary to the media's storyline, the reason so many mid-level watch brands appear to be jumping into the deep (high-end) end of the watch market pool is because so many more people are able to afford the price of admission. Capitalism DOES create wealth out of nothing. Capitalism is NOT a fixed pie with a limited set of slices, so that when you take a bite it comes out of my mouth. The fact is that if a homeless guy creates a good or service that a million people would rather have than the $300 in their pocket, that homeless guy will become a 1-percenter as a result. & companies like Rolex figured this out 100 years ago. That is why, during the 1970s, Rolex posted billboards all over China (eg, Tiananmen Square) in an effort to prime-the-pump for what they gambled would be their next market if/when China relaxed their decades long prohibition of personal property and ownership, especially of LUXURY goods. I recall, at the time, Rolex took alot of heat over the billboards with many in the media calling them foolish since 'everyone knew that few Chinese were permitted to purchase a Rolex'. But, as usual, Rolex predicted the future correctly & they were the first brand most Chinese thought of purchasing once China became a capitalist (albeit still authoritarian) nation.

So, to paraphrase Twain, predictions of Rolex collapse are premature.

15 hours ago, GShocked said:

Can't ever afford a Patek either

Perhaps, not today. But if you set your sights on 1 of Patek's lower-end models, or a model in less demand & save for awhile with the goal of owning that Patek, you probably will.

3 hours ago, kyldare said:

I'd pay a very good price (not $35k haha) for a V72 Franken that had a Gen dial, hands, pushers, and bezel, all housed in a case that got the profile/feel perfect.

Finding hands & pushers should not be difficult (or terribly costly). But the cost of a decent gen (62xx Daytona) dial will likely match or exceed $35k today.
Accurate aftermarket 62xx bezels can be found, but good luck finding a proper gen folded-link/rivet bracelet with the correct set of 62xx Daytona end links for anything less than a king's ransom. Hell, even gen steel 19mm 7835/357 bracelets, which fit (but were not made for) 62xx Daytonas, are starting to exceed the $1k mark.

19 hours ago, Nanuq said:

 

Tell ya what... send me $35,000 and I'll send you a spectacular plexi Daytona.  Absolutely indistinguishable from the naked eye, with the caveat you don't get to open it.  It will be gen, or it will be a great Franken.  But it will look, act and feel like a gen in every way.  I'll invest the difference from what it cost me (if there's any left over) and you enjoy the watch.  After 5 years if it doesn't scratch the itch any more, send it back, I'll resell it for 20% more than I paid for it, and refund your money.  

I'll make out like a bandit and you'll have no way of knowing if it's real or not.  It's a gamble, and it's NOT a gamble at the same time.

 

I am not sure I was able to follow the ball all the way, but I like the way you think. I think. 

3 hours ago, kyldare said:

However, with the price disparity between a crappy Gen and a great Franken being well into five figures, I'm not sure that extra cost is worth the shred of satisfaction. But I thought I'd ask. 

I guess my question was more philosophical, and aimed squarely at the Gen Daytona and its Franken ilk. 

With current pricing for gen 62xx series (plexi-crystaled) Daytonas beginning around the $60k mark and skyrocketing up from there (Newman/Exotic-dialed 62xx Daytonas generally trade well in excess of $100k, with sales sometimes tipping the scales at a quarter mil' for nice steel examples), I think sating your niggling sliver of desire will be a costly meal indeed. But, on a more positive note, I can assure you that the feel of a properly assembled franken (with all user-accessible components of genuine  Rolex manufacture) will match its 100% factory-made analog in every way but the feel of your wallet. Of course, today, many frankens at this level have become unobtanium for all but the well-heeled collector.

Ask a local jeweler. Most have the equipment/experience to perform engravings on watches (a popular option for gift-givers). However, if the Rolex is not gen, for obvious reasons, I would limit the search to jewelers who are not Rolex dealers.

Good luck.

I have never heard of 'Shopstore', but they are probably 1 of tens of thousands of rep sellers online today. Frankly, other than the dealers who have been listed (in good standing) on RWG for many years, I have generally learned to assume that any given rep seller is a scammer until/unless proven otherwise. Trouble is that, unless you know someone personally who has successfully purchased multiple watches from a given seller & was satisfied with what they received, the only way to find out is to be the guinea pig.

That said, prices for gen 1950s Kontiki on ebay vary quite a bit. Without indicating a specific model, I can tell you that there are a number of nice looking Kontikis around the $500 mark on ebay that I would consider before going the rep route. Search for - eterna kontiki 1958.

I have no experience with this & have never heard of anyone successfully changing the color of ceramic. My guess is that most paints would fail to permanently adhere to the ceramic. However, and this is just an educated guess, a proper two-part epoxy paint might work. Of course, assuming the bezel contains indented nomenclature - numbers & the like - you would need to use a slow-drying epoxy & find a way to keep the paint from covering the nomenclature by entering their channels.

A better option would be to contact Oris & ask them if they offer alternative color options or have experience painting their ceramic bezels (for special clients).

Good luck.

20 hours ago, kyldare said:

Does the satisfaction of a well-built Daytona rep touch the feeling of a real one?

If, by 'rep', you mean 100% (generally Asian-made) aftermarket, then I think the satisfaction depends on the quality of the particular rep, your knowledge/experience with the real thing & expectations.
If you take a low-end Rolex Sub rep & replace the crown/crown tube with gen parts, you will greatly improve the feel of that rep when winding/time-setting. However, the case, crystal, bracelet will still have a low-end feel. The more components you replace with gens, the more the rep's overall feel will match the gen's (ie, improve).

But since you added the qualifier 'well-built', I am guessing you are actually referring to frankens -- either a 100% genuine collection of Rolex parts assembled by someone other than Rolex, or a combination of aftermarket & gen parts assembled by someone other than Rolex.
In the case of the former, since you are dealing with all gen parts & assuming the watch is properly assembled, there should be no difference in the feel of this watch & the same model built by Rolex.
In the case of the latter, the feel will be dependent on the ability/knowledge/effort of the assembler & your knowledge/experience with the (Rolex factory-made) gen.

In my experience, a well-crafted franken, where all of the user-accessible components are gen, will have the same feel as the gen.

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