freddy333

Nanuq,

Did the hands (or anything else besides the bezel) on your watch come from classicwatchparts?

??

we are in "Watch Repair & Upgrade" we are speaking about upgrade some watch that we have yet....

My apologies if I misunderstood your original post. But if you already have these watches then just do the dial swap "upgrade"; if you don't already have the watches (and want to find or create them), then see the links I provided.

rag9fx,

I would definitely second the others suggestions re the crystal press. They're not that expensive and it WILL pay for itself the first time you use it and see how easy (and safe) it makes the job.

As an alternative for those without an extra Omega case lying around, you might try a metric socket from a socket wrench set. In some cases, with some [watch] cases, you may find a good fit. Having something that applies the force equally around the circumference of the part goes a long way to reducing the likelihood of collateral damage (to use the parlance of our times'--"The Dude").

open hunting for the photos eheheheheh

klingsor,

Why don't you just get one of these:

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=656

And one of these:

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=568

And play musical dials (or cases).

I think that Rolex uses two different thread pitches: one for 2.5mm crown tubes, and one for 2.5mm pusher holes. When you buy the tapping kit, it comes with the taps for the tube holes.

Even if you found the correct tap, it would not help with these DW cases, as you can't change the thread pitch of a hole with the same diameter.

Hmmm... Yes, that would be a problem.

I read something on TZ a few years ago where the poster, who identified himself as being a Rolex-trained watchmaker, said that Rolex occasionally used different parts depending on the size of the case (e.g., 20mm lugs vs 19mm lugs, etc.). And this often occurred without any notation or change in the official specs. And from what I've read by others on TZ over the years re variations in Rolex designs and parts specifications, that would certainly fit within the bounds of reasonable expectation. Of course, that won't fix the problem you're having, but it might help to explain what's going on with the different thread pitches.

Genuine pushers are a problem, klingsor. They have a finer thread pitch than the DW pushers, and will not screw into the case. (This is interesting, because the threads on my "Rolex Tapping Kit" are the same as the DW case...).

Avitt,

Are you sure the gen pushers are correct (gen)? It is very odd that the Rolex tap wouldn't match the Rolex pusher that the tap was made to create threads for. I'm just musing here, but could there be two (or more) different versions of taps, similar to the case with crown tubes and the two separate types of tools required to install them?

And great tutorial.

I need to relume a rep 5512, 6263 and a 1665 DRSD. Is Bergeon Luminous (white) paste or standard Luminova better (more accurate) or should I use Super-Luminova? And which colour--white or green?

My initial thought was to use the Bergeon paste because I have used this on a couple of other watches and its naturally weak and quick-fading glow might(?) look better on an old watch. But the lume that was originally on these watches was so weak (barely any glow) that I couldn't tell for sure whether it was white or green.

I'm hoping that some of you who have more experience may be able to shed some light (no pun intended) on this.

I'm surprised either watch made it through that torture course.

Either way, brilliant post, TTK!

It's also not cheap when you lose little parts left and right as they fly off your desk.

Not to sound flippant, but that's where experience comes in.

Just fyi: Here's the same set for a few dollars less:

http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/Case-Tube-Tap-Set-Rolex.html

So, do you feel comfortable servicing say a 2836 movement after this coarse?

As stated in the TZ class outline, the classes aren't really sufficient (or designed) to teach real-world diagnostics & repair skills. The classes provide you with a basic understanding of the components and workings of a watch (the Level 2 course adds a few complications and adds basic lubrication to the mix).

Thanks and the photos really don't do it justice. This really outta be done routinely whenever CGs and lugs are modded. Not sure why it hasn't been?

It is said that God is in the details. And nowhere is that truer than when comparing a rep watch to its genuine counterpart. A quick perusal of vintage gen Sea Dwellers and COMEXs and you will see that the early HE valves that were fitted into these rare watches differ in appearance from the round, shiny button things rep makers generally use to mimic them. Specifically, the face of the gen valve, where it sits adjacent to the highly polished casing material that surrounds it, is flat-faced (as opposed to slightly convex on reps), a bit darker and definitely not polished.

If, like me, your ultimate goal is to wind up with a watch whose appearance is a near-perfect analogue of the genuine article, then you will need to mod the HE valve to more accurately mirror the appearance of the original.

Fortunately, not only is this one of the simplest mods to execute (as long as you have mastered the art of movement extraction), but, amazingly (as I found out after completing the first one), it also results in a rep that is orders of magnitude closer to looking like 'the real thing'. Anyway, enough with the blabbering and on to the mod.

Here is the step-by-step procedure (note: it is alot easier to do than to write):

1. Open the case and remove the movement (as Ziggy and others have already penned wonderfully comprehensive tutorials on this process, I will take that as read).

2. Using a small flathead screwdriver, slide the backing plate over the 'valve' plug until the large circular cut-out in the plate is located directly over the head of the valve. The backing plate should then slide off (if it has not already fallen off by itself). The valve, which is just a small blocking pin with a 'T' head, can be removed with tweezers (it may just fall out, but in each of the two watches I have modded so far, the pins were held in (gently) by all the muck that had collected around the head on the outside of the case -- the pin required only gentle prodding with tweezers to remove).

3. Beginning with 100 grit sandpaper, hold the valve pin between thumb and forefinger, perpendicular to the surface, and grind the rounded head flat. Once flat, use 200 and then (only briefly) 400 grit to smooth out the surface to a roughly brushed appearance. I purposely left it a bit rougher than the other brushed surfaces on the case.

4. Clean the pin and hole thoroughly and slide the pin back into the hole in the case.

5. Reinstall the backing plate over the end of the pin, clean the case and reassemble.

Here are before and after shots (the valve looks a bit lighter in color here because the light source was directly on top of it; the valve appears slightly darker under normal room lighting):

When viewed on ones arm (unfortunately, my camera is on the fritz, so I do not have an arm shot), the entire watch just looks - well, more right. More authentic. More like a gen SD or COMEX, at least from that side. The 'valve' draws the eye directly to it and the eye does not leave disappointed. I am still not quite sure why this small part (and simple mod) produces such a dramatic change in the overall appearance of a watch thus modded, but it does. And for the better. Much better. Promise. So do it.

_________________

Update 6/07 -- My camera was out of service when I originally posted this tutorial so I was unable to include a wrist shot. But here it is now

I have also since continued research into gen vintage Comex Subs and there appear to be both shiny, domed He valves and non-shiny, flat valves. So either one is correct. But I think the non-shiny, flat version makes a rep look more authentic because I have never seen this form on any other rep watches (only gens).

Yeah, what longshot said....ah, WOW!

I don't know which is more impressive--the quality of that rep or the artistry of the relume!

Again, Wow (and I don't (didn't?) even like B&R watches)!

Where can I find the ajoesmith article on how to do that with tape? Looked through all his posts couldn't find anything.

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...c=21298&hl=

Just be carefull when using nail polish remover as it can make a right mess of printed or painted parts.

Exactly correct!

I guess I should probably add (for those who haven't read the tutorial) that the gear in question is affixed to a blank metal plate. There's no printing or non-metal parts in close proximity. So as long as you're reasonably careful, it should be very easy to remove both the nail polish and gear (if you feel the need to return the register to its previously "broken" state).

Oh, and in case anyone's interested, here's the "frozen" results (with "fixed" 12-hour register hand pointing to "12" [note: the (screw-type) pushers have been removed whilst the search commences for more appropriate (button) pushers]):

p.s. If anyone knows of a method for (accurately) filling-in the missing black dial colour in the minute (i.e., tiny, even when viewed at 10x!) isthmus between the bottom of the 12-hour register and the white circumference of the dial, please PM me.

After completing ajoesmith's "Guide To 'killing' The 6 Oclock Subdial On Speedmasters" (to fix the 12-hour register on a Paul Newman Daytona), I discovered an alternative method of stabilizing (fixing) the subdial hand that I think works just as well as ajoesmith's approach but offers the benefit of improved security (over time).

ajoesmith [cleverly] used double-sided tape to secure the 12-hour register gear to the plate, which is a good option since it makes the mod easy to un-do. But my experience with double-sided tape, especially when used in environments where the temperature varies, is that it will eventually loosen requiring the watch to be opened and the gear re-affixed.

As I'm the type who doesn't like to have to pay for the same real estate twice, I decided I needed a better (more permanent) solution. After considering a number of possible solutions, it dawned on me that the perfect fixer was nail polish, which is regularly used in electronics and motors with great success because it's stable over time, easy to apply (and see) and can be easily removed with standard nail polish remover without causing deterioration of the adjoining metal parts.

A couple of dabs along the edge of the gear where it meets the plate, five minutes of an air-dry and you have a simple, cheap semi-permanent fix that shouldn't come loose until or unless you want it to!

What have we got here?

And, before anyone asks... Not for sale... (sorry)

Cheers!

Randy,

I just have to say....<sigh>....lost for words (which says it all).

Looks like someone's gonna enjoy the holidays this year.

No stupid question...

It depends of the type of handpuller. If you have the two handed version, which does not press on the dial then you can pull one at the time. It grabs the hand in its claw. If you have the one handed version then it presses on your dial... Be aware that you protect your dial with soft tissue (cut a opening so you can slide it on the dial underneath the hands. With this puller you better take all hands of at once because if not it could lean on the hand below and bend it. Set your clock to 24:00 before you pull the hands otherwise datechange gets messed up. Good luck

I'm not quite sure if, by two-handed, you mean the number of hands required to hold the hand remover tool or if that's the number of hands the tool is designed to remove?? I apologize, again, for my naivete, but I seem to keep getting tools that are recommended as "The one tool to have for this job....", only to find out that it's the wrong tool (or, at least, not the proper tool for a basic task).

To make it less confusing, here's the tool I've been struggling with to try to remove the center seconds (and minute and hour) hands on the Newman Daytona rep I'm working on:

Am I just using it incorrectly or is this in fact the wrong tool to remove the seconds hand (above the hour and minute hands) at the top of the pinion?

In perusing Ofrei's hand removers, I'm thinking that the tool you have is either the Bergeon #6 Presto Hand Remover (which looks like it's designed to remove hands w/o the need to rest on the dial) or one of the lever-type hand removers a few items below the #6 on this page (which would obviously require "two hands"): http://www.ofrei.com/page_209.html

I hate to even ask this because I'm sure this'll be another of those newbie questions that've been answered to death (but I've been unable to find the answer).

How do you go about removing the 3 hands on the cannon pinion? I've got a Presto hand remover (from Birdman), but I can't figure out how to use it to remove the two top hands? Specifically, I know you need to remove the seconds hand first, but since it's at the top of the pinion, there's nothing for the hand puller's pads to sit on and use for leverage (I presume the pads rest on the dial (which I've protected with a small sheet of thick paper) and then you squeeze the springs on the side of the hand remover to press the hand off the pinion??? If I've got that right, what do you rest the hand remover's pads on when removing the second hand?

I have a feeling the answer's gonna be embarrassing, but for the life of me I can't figure this out.

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=21298

PS: For the umpteenth time: The movement is NOT "Lemania". It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Lemania. It's a Seagull / Venus copy movement.

By-Tor,

Many thanks for the link.

It's difficult for a relative newbie here to know everything that may've been corrected/answered previously. In any case, I referred to the movement by the name the dealer used who sold me the watch. My apologies for the mistake.

In my experience, a Tropic 21 will fit an EE 6263. I do find, however, that the bezels (especially the black one) can be a bit tight fitting over the crystal.

leitz: As I mentioned in the previous post, I don't know what an "EE" is (if that's one of the dealers here, then I'm pretty sure this rep isn't one of them because I got this Newman Daytona 1-2 years ago on a UK auction site)?

Since the watch I'm working on DOES have the black bezel, I should probably ask what type of problems did you run into fitting the crystal to your watch? Did you need to remove the bezel and, if so, what did you use (case knife, bezel remover, etc.)?

1) Depending on the size of the opening for the existing pusher, you could use a 2.5mm pusher from Ofrei. Not sure if you are looking for screwdown or pump pushers, but they do carry both.

2) ajoesmith did a step by step tutorial on how to freeze the 6:00 subdial.

3) You can simply cut the end link hoops out to accommodate the springbar. I've done it on a number of end links, and it works fine. There is really no need for the hoops,a s the springbar and last link work together to secure the end link.

4) The correct crystal is a T21. If you are installing on a non-DW or EE, it probably won't fit. The case will either be too large, or the lip for the crystal will be of incorrect size.

5) Probably something I wouldn't recommend doing, unless you have a very steady hand.

Best of luck!

R

Randy,

Many thanks for the info.

Re 1: Actually, the reason I posted the question here is because I was confused by all the options offered by Ofrei (I need the non-screw "pump" pushers).

I don't really have the proper tool (caliper?) to measure the exact dimensions of the pushers I removed from the case. I just set the pusher on a ruler and eyeballed each of the dimensions. It looks like the diameter of the portion of the pusher that fits into the hole in the case is more like 2.2mm or 2.3mm (Ofrei does offer one 2.2mm pusher). And I guess I could order one of each of the 10 options they offer to see which fits (and looks) best, but, at $12/each, that's not my favourite option. I'm hoping someone has done this before so I don't have to reinvent the same wheel.

Also, what is recommended for fitting press-fit pushers into the case? Ofrei lists a Bergeon 6161 (plyers for fitting pushers) for $89 and a Horotec Pushers-Press for $79.50, which says it will also install crown tubes. Is there a less expensive alternative? Though, since I've got a couple of crown tube installations in my upcoming schedule, the Horotec (presuming it works as advertised) may not be a bad idea...

Re 2: Thanks, I'll search the archives for ajoesmith's solutions.

Re 3: Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the only thing that appears to connect the end piece to the springbar are those two little hoops that appear to be welded to the inside of the end piece. If I cut or remove them, there won't be anything (in the end piece) to slide the springbar through:

Re 4: I don't mean to sound (too) ignorant, but I'm not familar with an "EE" and I'm pretty sure the rep I've got isn't a DW (I think I read in one of your posts that the DW's have 19mm lug widths and this one's 20mm), so does that mean I won't be able to fit ANY (generic) Tropic crystals or is it just the T21 that won't fit?

If NONE of the Tropics (including the generic Tropics that Ofrei sells fit (I've got four of their generic T19s that I was hoping to use for this Newman and the DRSD I got from Andrew), is there another crystal I can use? And I guess I should ask how I can measure the current crystals so I don't make the same mistake again?

Re 5: Definitely no steady hands here...so I'll definitely need all the luck I can get....

no problem buddy, andi agree, you would think that it would interfere with the desire for this case, but the case itself, other then the lugholes, is pretty much perfect in every other way.

i wasnt aware that this was such a common thing with the tw classic cases, personally, i probably would have gone for one without the lugholes if i knew...

Is "tw" Andrew? If so, then it must be a case-specific problem because the lug holes on the DRSD I recently received from him (which is next to be modded after I finish the Newman Daytona) are in the same locations as the vintage 5514 Comex I referred to in my initial response to you.

A few questions re the Lemania-based Paul Newman:

1. Is there a good source for gen button (as opposed to screw-type) pushers for Lemania-based Paul Newman Daytonas?

A gen OEM part would be nice, but a similar generic or aftermarket replacement that fits the case and works the Lemania movement would be fine. The pushers that I removed were press-fit (as opposed to screwed) into the case.

2. Does anyone have info (an illustrated, step-by-step tutorial would be a dream come true) on how to "freeze" the 12-hour register so the hand always points to "12"? As is, the Lemania movement's a work of art, but, unfortunately, it's also a dead give-away (as a fake) because of the duplicated hour hands.

3. Other than eBay, is there a source for SS Oyster end pieces that will accept the gen 2mm springbars (the lug spacing is 20mm)?

4. What is the correct crystal for the Paul Newman Daytona (T19, T21, other???)?

I have a generic T19 that I was going to use, but I'm wondering if either the T21 or a "Superdome" (not sure of the Tropic number???) would be more authentic?

5. Finally, has anyone ever successfully painted the small black area of the dial that separates the bottom of the 12-hour register from the white band around the circumference of the dial:

As it is, it's the only (obvious) flaw on the dial that keeps it from looking gen, but it's so small that I can't figure out how to paint just the small strip without getting the paint on the adjoining areas, which would completely [censored] it up. Viewed through a 7x loupe, the target area's about as wide as the tip of a sewing needle, if that helps.