mrnixon

Thanks SSSURFER for your second long answer. I think I misunderstood your first answer as if you meant that one wears it out fairly quckly. I dont know if I am a bit odd here at the forum since I am concerned with the quality and durability of the watches I like. I dont care so much about a detail at the font or other very minor design issues. For me getting my watch serviced is rather easy but if something really breaks and requires spare parts it will give me headache since I am currently working abroad and have difficulties ordering stuff. If it is possible to find at all. And even if 250-350 usd is not so much for a watch, it is still quite a lot if you buy a couple of them and they end up in the drawer after a short time. And if it is in the drawer, well then it does not matter how nice the fonts are. QUOTE(mrnixon @ Mar 10 2007, 07:17 PM) However, even if not setting the watch very frequently, you still have to open and close it every day to wind the watch. It is possible that opening and closing it every day, in the long term could wear out the top of the lever and/or the center of the crown. Does anyone have any experience from this? Yes, it does. Much better autos.

Do you have any idea how quickly it goes to wear out the middle of the crown and/or the top of the lever? And do you know any way of fixing it? The only thing I can think of to prevent/delay the problem is a little bit of oil etc at the centre of crown where the lever will scratch it, will significantly reduce the friction and delay the life of both the crown and the lever. What suprises me a litte about all of this is that one never read anything about it related to gen Panerais. This model with a lever pushing the crown has been out on the market for a pretty long time, but I have never heard anything on discussion forums. The same is for the screw down crown for the Radiomir. No one with a gen seems to have problems with it.

Aggree with you, it is in a grey zone. Since we are talking about design it is difficult to really decide. For example the model Eddie offers doesnt, as far as I know, replicate any of Pam existing models, although there are certain similarities. However, there is as I see it at least one clear line of what defintitely is a rep, and that is when a watch has the name of a well-known manufacturer on it. Then it stating being a Panerai but has actually nothing to do with Panerai. Until you come to that line I guess it is a question of preferences. For example a Japanes court decided that RXW's MM was a copy of 1950, although it does not say Panerai on it. Personally I like the Precista Italian. I dont know if I am going to buy it though. In terms of quality I think it is very well made (probably no exploding crystals, worn out threads etc), but it is also considerably more expensive than the stuff we see here at the forum.

The design is as I see it a question of taste, and that is individual and therefore not much point continuing discussing. About the quality issues, there are some facts worth noting. About choice of suppliers. Eddie buys his casees from a German manufacturer of mechanical parts called Fricker. As long as I have been following related forums, I have rarely come across any comments on quality problems. And many of his watches have been out there for a pretty long time.

Well, the point is just what I wrote. I think it is a beautiful watch. And I think that can be enough reason to buy a watch. If it is more or less beautiful than some of the ones you are attaching, well that I think can be left to the individual to decide. The quality of the watches from Eddie is good, for those concerned with that. I think there is point with this type of watches as well. One point can of course be that I buy the watch because I like the design of it. I am one of those for example. I bought a homer unlabeled watch a while ago because I like the looks and the feeling of it. One can see from 50 meters distance that it is not a Panerai, which for me is of no concern at all. (Today actually I also ordered a second one, but in titanium). Another point can be that it is not a fake watch, with everything comming along with that, such as the fact that it is illegal, signals it sends out, watchmakers dont want to deal with them etc. For example alot of people simply dont like fake watches and dont want to wear them nor buy them. For people with that opinion I think Eddies watches offer a nice opportunity. So, to answer your question, I think there is room for this type of watch in the market.

Not exactly a rep but I thought it still might be interesting for you guys here at the forum. Eddie at timefactors (who made the Dreadnaught and Speedbird models) has made his own modern interpretation of the old Panerai/Rolex divers watch. The project has lasted for a long time but I think now it is finally done and the watch will be launched pretty soon I think. A beautiful watch and I think also the quality will be very good: http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t...cfef505142d4d9f

I dont think it should make such a big difference if you use the lever to close the crown, since one does not set the watch very frequently. However, even if not setting the watch very frequently, you still have to open and close it every day to wind the watch. It is possible that opening and closing it every day, in the long term could wear out the top of the lever and/or the center of the crown. Does anyone have any experience from this? And also, do you guys think it could be a difference between titanium and steel watches? Titanium appears to get scratched very easily so maybe on can wear out the top of the lever faster?

I had the impression that all the quality reps from the wellknown dealers (Joshua, Davidsen etc) all had screwed springbars, not the traditional one. And that one only had use a traditional one if threads are worn out. Do you know if Davidsen uses traditional spring bars on all his models, or is he using screws at some of them? quote name='JJFlash' date='Mar 8 2007, 10:25 PM' post='213669'] Correct - traditional style spring bars with cut out on the very end that makes it appear to be a traditional screw rather than spring bar. In my case the problem is the spring bar diameter is smaller than the lug hole - spring bar passes easily thru the lug hole and falls out. No way to anchor it except glue it in. The lugs have been badly stripped - it will not hold any Pam type screw either.

TTK, The reason I am at this forum is that I like to discuss and learn more about watches. I am not at all interested in conflicts etc and therefore I dont read nor nor write messages which are not related to watch issues. I simply never get involved in any conflicts and definititely stay out of the ones other members are dealing with and of which I have nothing to do. If other people like to discuss different kinds of social topics (such as conflicts), that is fine with me. We all have different purposes and needs. But I am only here to discuss watches. Personally I found the topic about the quality of modified Swiss ETAs interesting and informative and therefore continued to discuss it regardless of other members personal issues.

Thanks tourbillon for your very informative post. From what I understand, the only changes normally done on the genuine swiss movement are of cosmetic type, whereas the mechanics is still left untouched and accordingly the watch should have the same performance as an unmodified gen Swiss Eta movement. Is that right?

In this discussin we seem to assume that the Swiss Eta provided by Davidsens watches is inferiour compared with a Swiss Eta from for example Otto Frei ( http://www.ofrei.com/page_183.html ). Maybe we should first clarify if that is the case? I got the impression that the movements are basically the same type but that most rep sellers also have them decorated. Maybe some of the experts could contribute here?

My watch has never been exposed to water so I dont know if it is water proof. By the crown there is rubber seal at least. Regarding interchangable parts. I have a vague memory that I have read that Davidsens dials dont have the same size as many others. I have never heard anything about movements though.

Do you think that the gen swiss eta does not fit in the same case as a swiss which has been modified in china? I got the impressioin that they normally just add some decoration at the top parts visible from the backside, and that the rest would be left intact. But I am not a watch maker so I dont know. If you are interested in a plain swiss made one maybe this could be something? I bought one like this two months ago and I am very happy with it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1 Personally I bought it because I like the design and the feeling of the watch and have no ambition at all to make it look like a genuine panerai. I like the plain undecorated movement more than one that is decorated. It is after all a military design and then I think it is more approriate when the movement has more of a "no nonsence appearance". It gives it more of a military feeling which matches the entire concept better I think.

Just wanted to say that I aggree with you regarding the quality issue. For me the quality is no 1 and if that is not fullfilled to a reasoable level I see no point buying the watch. After the quality is at an acceptable level I would start thinking about font size, lume, canon pin etc. IMHO there is not much point buying a watch that will end up in the drawer after 6 months and never see daylight again. My philosophy has been to keep it as simple as possible. By reading the forum it seems like if something can break, it will break, so therefore I prefer only very simple models with nothing that can break. In my view the more basic PAMs with Swiss ETA are the best example of this. A basic robust movement which any watchmaker can fix, rugged crown, rough bars etc. Buying a chronograph with a 7750 from China is simply not my thing.

I was just looking at a dealers review with rather detailed pictures of Davidsens: http://www.rwg.cc/members/Davidsenand39s-1...zie-t20623.html From the pictures looks like the spring bars are of the traditional type (ie that you push in from both ends) rather than the screw that Panerai has. Is that correct?

I also like the model but the potential crown problems is what stop more from buying it. Would be interesting hearing some feedback from people with the models from Andrew, Joshua and Davidsen. Also, what happens if/when you wear it out? Are you still able to wind it and use it as usual as any regular manual watch with a regular non screw-crown, or will the crown stick out to much?

Haer ar en svensk till. Upptackte just den har traden.

I think it would sell pretty well actually. At least if they make it in scale 0.8:1 At full size I think it would simply be too large. Even a 127 turns some people off due to its size and go around with something 1 cm larger on your wrist would probably look rather strange.

You can get a complete homer watch for 129

Wouldnt worry at all about that. Lets face it, 95% of the population has not idea even what Panerai is at all. Of the remaining 5% maybe 5% would be able to spot a fake from a gen. And from there one should be so unlucky that a customs officer should be the one stopping you and asking you to show your watch? Has anyone ever been asked to show your watch in a customs control looking for fakes? And if if it was a fake and the customs officers sees it, would he care? We are not exactly talking about 500 grams heroin here. No I would say it is absolutely risk free to travel with a fake. Or even argue that it is better wearing a fake watch when travelling since it is less money so if you loose it is not the end of the world. Loosing a gen can be a bit more anoying.

I was also thinking about that. Did the old originals really have display backs like the watch at the auction? I thought old military equipment would have solid metal back.

I agree with you. I think 47mm is probably too big for me. On the pictures I think the 1950 is one of the nicest Panerais with its more vintage look, but I am also concerned with the sizi. I think it will simply be to big for me. Unfortunately I have not been able to try one on since they are not particularly common as gen so my opinion is totally based on wrist shots. The nicest would be if one of the rep manufacturers made a rep but in mini version around 44-45mm as the regular 111 etc.

I just saw that the RWC has launched their interpretation of the old panerai for the egyptian nany. http://www.retrospectwatch.com/1954.html IMHO the original one is one of the most beautiful divers watches ever made. See the original here: http://orologi.forumfree.net/?t=8369879&st=0 You will have to scroll down a little. Wouldnt it be nice if Davidsen or any of the other quality rep manufacturers made a rep of this one? I would be the first in line to buy one.

If you decide to buy one, it would be nice if you post some pictures. Also if you find out more about it, it would be appreciated if you post it here. I have tried to find the watch at other shops buy only found one more. On Andrews page he writes that Panerai will launch this model but I have not found any information about that so I am not it is correct. Which is a shame. I would seriously consider buying a gen if it was available.

I have never boght from him myself. But here you can se detailed pictures of the watch that you can compare with pics of gen. I should help you a little at least: http://www.rwg.cc/members/My-New-Davidsen-...res-t20252.html