mrnixon

Wow! Very nice looking watch. For me, not so interested in having a perfect replica of an gen. but rather enjoying the design as such, I think it is the perfect PAM. I have been looking at the 1950 for a long time. I like the vintage looks of the 1950 but what holds me back is that I am concerned with the size, it might simply be too big for my taste. Now if I can get it in "regular size" I think it is perfect. I only have to issue. Firstly, on 127 the crystal apparantly could explode, is there any risk that the same might happen on this one? And secondly, the cannon pin is too short. Does that only affect the looks, or is there also a risk that the arms might fall off? Any qualified assessments of this by some of the real experts here on the forum I guess would be very appreciated by many of us here. Any further info is appreciated.

I have the impression that the version from Davidsen is the best one. No cannon pin problem, lume is fine and crystal doesnt explode. The quality is also supposed to be the very best among reps. All of this I have read here on the forum several times, but I have not (yet) bought one from him.

I have never bought anything from him so take my comments for what they are. I have been thinking about buying a Pam 111 or 177 and his version, provided it is ok, is on my short list. (It is 100 usd cheaper than Davidsens titan version) I have gotten the impression that it has until recently been rather unusual that the Swiss made ETA/Unitas has been modified with a longer cannon pin, whereas the asian versions have had it for a longer time. If you look at Joshuas web page you see that he has exactly the same pictures for the Swiss ETA as for the Asian version. This means that the watch on the picture either has a Swiss or an Asian movement. So my advice is to ask Joshua before you buy the watch. http://watchwindersworld.com/panerai-lumin...mm-c-35_40.html

They look really good. I guess I am bit odd but on this type of watch, a tool watch, I prefer the rough no-nonsence design of a non decorated Eta straight out of the box. It gives it more of a military feeling. Although a non decorated movement does not at all look like the Panerai, I think it suits this type of watch. Actually the same was the reason why I bought a watch without any Panerai text. I think it looks cooler without. On the other hand I am very concerned with the quality (ie reliability, that it keeps time etc). When you write quality, do you refer to the looks (ie decoration) or do you also mean that it is better assebled, has better components etc?

Ok, thanks. I have seen the instructions here on the page how to change the cannon pin. I got the impression that when it comes to Swiss Etas it is almost only Davidsen who allways modifies the watches he sells (and lately some of Joshuas models) and that the rest usually sold it with the shorter cannon pin, but that some of the Asian ETAs had the longer cannon pin as standard so therefore if I see eg a PAM 111 with a short canon pin it usually has a Swiss and if it is long it is Chinese (with a number of exceptions of course). To be honest the long cannon pin was also one reason for me to wait a little bit with buying a second titan version of the same watch. I really want a Swiss Eta in my watch but when I saw the long canon pinn it made me a bit reluctant (given the cases discussed here at the forum with claimed Swiss which turned out to be Chinese) and my watch needs to be looked after by a watch maker anyways. I therefore decided to wait until my watch maker can confirm that it is a gen Swiss movement until I decide so I am 100% sure. Not to stir up any rumours I would like to underline that I have only good experience from Homer and he really seems to know what he is doing so I have absolutely nothing at all to complain about and also his name was never mentioned as one of the ones lying. But after all the discussions I still thought "better safe than sorry" so I will decide after my watch maker has looked at my present one.

I have one of his complete watches with swiss movement. See link: http://cgi.ebay.de/UNITAS-ETA-6497-WATCH-S...1QQcmdZViewItem I think the case is the same on my watch as the one being sold separately, or at least everything from the pictures is the same including the number of tines on the crown. I dont know how holes are normally drilled on all PAMs but on this one it is like a long screw. You push it in from the right (asuming that you have the watch is you are wearing it) and then the threads are on the left lug. I have changed straps a couple of times and not experienced any problems. In general the watch gives a very solid and well made impression. What surprised me a little is that it has a swiss movement ETA/Unitas 6497 but the cannon pin is the way it should be ie goes all the way up not leaving a little hole in the center of the arm. I thought only Davidsen was able to arrange that on the Swiss made 6497. In general I like it, so I am also considering buying the equivalent Titan version. The titan version is a bit pricy though (180£, around 370 usd) so maybe I will go for a Davidsen 177 instead for the same money. We'll see.......

If I was in your position I would go for the Davidsen version. He has a wonderful feedback and I have not heard about a single quality problem or other technical weaknesses. It is not so expensive that you will have to treat it like a gen Patek or so, so you should be able to wear it at most occasions. For the remaining budget I would buy a Casio G-shock, which I would use for the really hard activities such as swimming some types of sports. I have had one for 15 years and it is impossible to break it. With this you will get a very nice rep which will last very long and you will get the best possible beater.

What does a "full mod package" mean? Is that something one can buy as an option to the regular watch?

I have never tried to find that particular strap, but have experienced similar problems with my gen JLC Reverso GT. If you cannot find a standard strap, you can try here http://www.abp-paris.com/abpw/index_en.php They are hand made according to your specifications. They have a very good reputation.

I have also been thinking about this issue. How come the screw is worn out? I thought it should be possible to screw in a a screw houndreds of times without destroying the threads? And once it is attached such a robust construction should last for a life time, compared with weak construction of regular spring bars that regular watched have? And secondly, do all pam reps have the same threads? And are they the same as the gen?

Hi, no you remember correctly, I got a very detailed description how you did it, thanks again. I have put it in a word file together with the pictures you posted and looked at it carefully. The reason I am also curious about Falcos method is that he seems to have done it in a slightly different ways by rubbing the dial and also adding the tobacco. The end result was also different. I have not yet decided which one to go for. I think both of your watches are very nice. Your version looks beautifully aged wereas Falcos looks like it had a rougher history. I will probably start with lighter aging like yours and then evaluate the result for a while, and then eventually continue towards Falcos version with more "vintage treatment". Hopefully I will be able to meet a watchmaker who can open the watch for me next week. Will post pict when it is done. Thanks again,

Very nice pics, both of the first and the second one. Thanks. So now we are waiting, with high expectations, for pictures of the third one :-)

Now this is becomming more like a cook book than a watch forum :-) , but could you mention which proportions you are using when you make that mix you put on the dial and hands? I will try to do something similar within a near future and since I only have one dial, I get no second chance. Thanks

Since you seem to have a lot of experience from Davidsens Pams. I am 99% sure I will get a 111 or 177 from him. Is there anything problematic etc I ought to know before finaly going for his version instead of Joshuas? Do they require service right after purchase or can I start using it right away? All info is very appreciated. Thanks

Just my thoughts on buying something and then plan to start the modifying process. I have not done it, so take my comments for what they are. I would not do it. Instead I would go for the best possible one and just keep it. To buy something good and bring it home, wire money etc will cost you $ 300-400. The on top of that you will have to buy the parts, probably send it around to someone to do the job for you (relatively cheap job maybe but you also have insured shipping). That means that you will end up spending quite a lot of money on something which will still not be a gen. Instead it probably would be cheaper to buy a gen and if you get tired of it you can sell it and get your money back. If you get tired of a rep you cannot sell it and get your 550 usd (or whatever the total cost will be) back.

3 months ago I was where you are now. And after that I think I have read everything on the subject. My impression is that Davidsen (see his posts and web page) has a very good reputation for quality. I get the impression, based on readin not testing, that his latest versions of the PAMs are the very best available. They are a little bit more expensive than the orthers though. Issues to look at if you go for any other seller are the cannon pin, the crystal might crack (pam 127), does the watch really have swiss made ETA/Unitas (if it is referering to only ETA might mean a chinesee version having very little to do what a beginner understands of ETA), and then of course if you are concerned with how similar all the details such as font size etc are. Hope it helps.

Would be interesting to see that logic applied to any other type of merchandise. Try for example the next time you go food shoping. Imagince the scene: You come the shop assistant with a box of milk in youir hand and ask him "Hello, I found this box on which it says Milk. I just wanted to make sure, does it contain Milk, or is there a risk that it contains orange juice?" The guy responds "It contains Milk of course" Looking happily suprised you continue "It says 1 liter on the box. Is there any risk that it contains 30 milliliter instead?" And so the conversatoin would continue for every item.

I have no experience from the mentioned dealers, but from my general point of view an ETA is exactly an ETA, ie an movement manufactured by the company with that name, which has been sold by ETA, quality controlled by ETA etc. Imagine if you go and buy a Zegna suit. After two days the sleve falls off and you go back and ask what is wrong, and the shop assistant says, "Well, it is a chinese Zegna. It has actually noting to do with what you associate with Zegna". I am surprised of the understanding some buyers are showing to this issue claiming that it is the nature of the business and so on. Well, even if the watches are fake, the money sent are definitely real. In general I think this thead has been very informative. At least for me as a beginner.

I agree with you. I started this interest when I was looking for a real Pam 111H. It is a rather unusual watch in terms of size and design so when I saw a rep (totally clean without any text saying Panerai etc) for around 300 usd with Swiss Eta, I thought, why not buy it as a way of testing if I like the watch type. If I like it I buy the real one and make a vintage-look-alike wabi of this one. I guess I was a bit naive then, I thought something like "Good. Putting the same swiss movement in a super simple watch, how difficult can it be? There should be nothing on this watch that does not last a life time since there is practically nothing moving on this watch appart from the lever". It is of course easy to get worked up and when you see the pictures and fantastic prices compared with gens and you want to buy almost everything I see. After buying that first watch I started reading more and realized that my initial view was maybe not right and that there are also problems with reps. The nice thing is that they are rather cheap so I was planning to disassemble at least part of it just for the nice feeling of having modified a watch myself. I sort of like that idea and it is certainly something I wouldnt do on a 10 000 usd vintage Sea-Dweller. The drawbacks as i see it are mainly the quality problems (if 30% of watches are received have problems the 300 usd watches have problems it has to be included in the price), lack of service and spareparts, not easy to sell and personally I am a little reluctant emotionally to wear a fake watch. In a way it feels like I am going around trying to pretend or show the world something that is not real, but rather a fake. That was why I liked the clean Panerai, it does not pretend to be one but still has the nice design. Another issue with fake vs gen is that often a gen doesnt have to be more expensive. I have had many Rolexes, Breitlings etc which I had for a couple of years and then sold them and bought something else. In most cases I got the money back, which actually means that it has been a cheaper hobby to deal with the gens than the fake. Well, we all have different views and preferences. I must say though that I like this forum a lot. And I think I will buy two more reps, and IWC Jones and a Pam from Davidsen. I just want to make sure that I get something with decent quality and with a good quality swiss movement. After that I think I will start learning more, maybe buy the timezone's watch makers course and open them up. Would be really fun.

Hello again Thanks for your reply. It is really super to have someone with your skills here on the forum. I guess I was not very clear. What happened was that the watch stopped totally. The very fast visable rotating brass wheel (the one below the regulator) stopped, so the watch was totally dead. But when I pulled out the crown and turned it back and forth a little so that the arms were moving, the movement started again and has now been moving for around two hours. And now it keeps perfect time again. Since it is also rather random, I, with no knowledge what so ever, get the feeling that there might be some dust, small things etc in there stopping the wheels. But I cannot see anything like that when I look through the back of the watch. Thanks Ulf

As the thread started, I experienced some problems with my swiss ETA 6497. It suddenly stopped after around 12 hours. I then decided to be more careful and systemantic to see if I could find out more abut it. After fully winded, the watch then worked around 36 hours and then stopped. I tried to make it move again but appears to be no power left. The second time I wind it fully and the watch stops after 11 h. I then pull the crown out and roll it so the arms are moving and then set the watch. It then starts to work again and has been working since then. When working, the watch keeps absolutely perfect time. If anyone has any idea of what this can be, it would be interesting to hear. Thanks Ulf

I aggree fully with you. I would never give my wife a fake watch as a "special gift". Sure, I could maybe buy one for fun some time but not for a special day. Then it is better to get a nice vintage watch, or something else like mentioned above (hand bag, underwear, a ring etc). I got my wife a Rolex Air-King (genuine) and she is very happy with it. She will be able to wear it every day for the rest of her life and be reminded that it was a gift from me. I am sure that even if I asked her 100 times she never would have prefered a fake one instead. But every relationship is different, so I am not saying that everbody else should do the same as me.

I have also been thinking about getting a 177. Have looked at both Joshuas and Davidsens. Davidsen seems to have a very good reputation for good quality, which I like and I am also willing to compromise a little with the small estitical deviations from the original for getting a good quality watch. (My logic is, what is the difference between an L or a T or font size on the face of the watch, if it ends up broken in my drawer?). My main concern is the price. 390 usd+ 20 usd shipping and some other costs for transfering the money probably means that I will hit 430-450 having the watch at home. If I then want to get a new strap it comes up to maybe 550. Quite a lot for a rep watch even if it is one of the best. Does anyone here have any input regarding the quality of the movements and other quality issues of the Joshuas and Davidsens?

Sorry I wrote my answer at the wrong thread. Should have been at the other davidsen topice. Sorry