Serafino

It must be an art, right? At least, if you aren't just paying top dollar for donor watches. I see a number of "as-is" movements "for parts only" for auction. Some of these are obviously water damaged or inside badly damaged cases. Are the clean-looking ones a good risk? If a watch is running at all is that an indication that for a parts-available movement it's likely a fairly trivial operation for a watchmaker to service it and get it running well? Or does everyone mostly avoid the obvious risks and buy donor watches which are either NOS or at any rate stated to be running well, etc.?

So I've got my 16013 case, and it looks like I need a new tube in there? It actually looks a bit off-kilter, like the crown took a hit. I gather that the OFrei and Clark replacements are both comparable to OEM?

Sorry I mean his enlargement ring, which also apparently serves as a dial support.

So check my arithmetic: if a 2824 has a 1.8 mm stem height, and one in a stilty spacer leaves about .4 mm clearance to the dial glued to the top of the spacer, does that mean the stem height on a 3035 is 2.2 mm? Meaning a 2836 with its 2.25 mm stem height should fit with the stem .05 mm off center in the hole?

FWIW, reading the old Stilty thread, his spacer worked with a 2824 by leaving .4 mm clearance between movement and dial in which to put the date overlay. He solved what sounds like the same problem by using a wheel from a 2834-2, with its .2 mm 'step' ? (...and all this only after installing a new cannon pinion so the hands will still be at the right height...) http://www.rwgforum....a-franken-pt-i/

This may help: http://www.rwg.cc/to...post__p__698473

So for the 2836, with a stem height of 2.25 mm, the stem was up against the back side of the hole? What S/N range is your case? I'm very curious about this as I am just about to start a 16013 project.

Alli--AND you can take it on a trip to France without being even slightly nervous Meanwhile--anyone know the stem height for a 3035? I haven't been able to dig that up (i.e. as luck would have it the Rannft site doesn't have it). I guess another way to come at the question is: does a 2836 fit exactly as to stem height or is there a little fudging in one direction or another?

OldCorvette--actually I didn't mean to imply I would take the movement from the Hamilton, I think I'll keep it in there for now (just meant to illustrate that I realize a basic gen ETA can perform quite nicely) Yes, a serviced movement to start things off is very appealing. Alligoat--ah right. You also mentioned a slow-beat 2846 in LH's thread on 16000s. Yes it was that guy I was looking at. Incidentally I have been admiring your 'MKII' 5500. Was hoping to find one of those dials and emulate yours for a while but am now committed to the Franken path.

UPGRADE MOVEMENTS I've searched on this at the various forums and didn't find much. What are the options for getting a better grade of gen ETA movement? I have a 160XX case on its way to me for a 1016 project and I'd like to get a nice, solid movement with a long future in front of it, but without paying the price of a gen Rolex movement. I currently have a Hamilton from around 2000 that has a 2824 in it. I presume it's a bottom-grade Swiss ETA and I have to admit that I'm pretty happy with its performance. I'd just like to have the sense that I've put something in my 1016 that is a wee bit special. I'm not concerned with low-beat (although I wouldn't mind either...) CROWNS While I'm at it, if anyone can recommend a trustworthy vendor for a suitable crown I would be grateful. I was looking at 24-600-0s based on LH's projects, but they seem to be pretty pricey, and I noticed that there are crowns for the 160XX out there which are part no. 17b or 16u and not so expensive. Clearly there is much to learn about this, and I will do the reading, but in the meantime if there's a simple answer and source I'd be grateful--I'd love to get parts ordered ASAP so this project can get moving.

Look what I found (ile, most of the 1016 references I've seen say 36 mm. There are 34 mm Explorers but I won't try to detail the numbers as I'm likely to get it wrong.) (found here: http://ebaytopbidder.blogspot.com/ )

So it sounds like there is most interest in the following: 1. An early '60s style dial with early-style numerals and a minute track, either gilt or plain; 2. A late '60s / '70s plain 'Explorer' dial, otherwise pretty much the same as the Space-Dweller. Early plain: Early gilt: For the later style, I gather that the 'Frog' style just appeared in the mid '70s, while the late '60s and early '80s crown had a squarer proportion? I kind of like the 'normal' crown for the 'plain Jane' Explorer dial ('83 in this case). Is there a general preference for one or the other? Are there fine points about these dials which our mythical dial maker should be aware of while preparing to make them? I assume that it makes most sense for lume to be white since it can be aged if needed? I was going to include this Ebay auction watch which Deaton talked about recently, but rather than post it as an example of the plain early style 1016 dial I wonder what you all think about the case? Is that a normal early 1016 or has it been polished over to a large degree? It reminds me of earlier cases with its apparently rounded edges and overall polish. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Edited to add side view of the above watch:

...and which one is it? ----------------------------- Edited to add some sideline comments: Praetor--the evidence is apparently pretty strong that Fleming had his Explorer while writing OHMSS, after which there were 2 more novels, FWIW. The only explicit reference I've found to the Fleming watch's original dial is this from the MWR forum: James Dowling | 03-03-2010 Hi All; The Explorer on show at the IWM & soon at the NAWCC museum came from Ian Fleming's daughter. It had a stunning high gloss, gilt original dial, when it went to the museum someone checked it with a Geiger counter & discovered that the original dial was a radium one & obviously a danger to the public, so it was sent off to Rolex, London to have a modern Luminova dial fitted in its stead. The original dial was not kept. Sometimes I hang my head & weep.

His email is on his page at Ebay.

Hi Praetor, I was wondering about your project. I hope you are able to return to it. Is there an actual photo of the Fleming watch dial before it was replaced? I've seen photos of Deaton's watch, with track minutes, mistakenly referred to as being the actual Fleming watch, but the Fleming watch is always pictured with a replacement dial with no track from what I've seen (even in the 'envelope' picture from the Centenary celebration). Did all Explorers made around 1960 have "chapter ring"/track minute dials? Anyway Fleming was probably wearing an Elgin or something when he wrote most of the novels

Say for the sake of discussion that there was a dial maker who was interested in providing an oft-requested vintage Explorer design, and was looking for feedback on what exactly to have made. What would you nominate for a "most desireable" dial? I'm away from my collected photos but to start things off (and admitting in advance my utter lack of expertise about these things) I'll offer up this apparently original dial from 1970, watch S/No 298xxxx. It strikes me as a nice model for a 'straight' explorer dial?

Best wishes for a speedy and comfortable recovery, AND take your time, do it right.

Not yet! ND prices are starting to seem slightly less unacceptable...

Lovely, I am full of envy.

He replied to an email of mine last week and said he didn't have any Space Dweller or Explorer dials, FWIW.

Wow, awesome info. thank you very much. I will digest this and return with any questions.

thogaa I hope you're in Switzerland or Germany. Otherwise I'd like to know what other countries have such harsh practices.

I gather there is a fair likelihood that any gen case that is up for sale will be one that is so worn that it made more sense to part the watch out than try to sell it whole? I have read that some of these cases can be warped? Buying over the internet I guess there's really no way to tell if this is the case with a given example. So it is asking for trouble to order something from someone that has no return policy, since you can't check for warping via a picture? I also presume that aside from all the usual spots where corrosion can happen and have a cosmetic impact, one has to really be careful of pits or black spots round the outside of the projection which the crystal fits around (haven't managed to dig up that part name yet), and watch for pitting/spots in the threads of the case and back? Thanks for any help in negotiating this minefield.

Thank you LH, very interesting and helpful.

Thank you very much LH for taking the time. I sometimes end up doing overlays to help with visual comparisons. This one shows the sort of thing that made me wonder what the actual dimensions are (scaled to match the bottom corners of the bezel, and showing asymmetries which seem common in close up watch photography). Don't set too much store by this, perspective effects alone are likely to make drawing strong conclusions from it ill-advised, and my scaling may have been based on a false assumption.