archibald

Thanks for keeping this up to date...

Angis new gray is a much better match to the Gen gray dial.

Still the concentric circles on the dial are still lacking, on the Gray gen they are VERY obvious.

Cheers,

M

You concentric circle guys got me so paranoid about those things that I actually went to an AD after work today to take a look @ a gen. It's true my eye's ain't what they used to be, but even with the salesman looking at me like I was some kind of kook staring at the dial like I was looking for the DaVinci Code, I just can't call them obvious, or even noticeable as either concentric or even circles. The dial shines differently where the circles are, which I believe is the whole idea behind them, but so does the rep. I fully respect the opinion of my eagle eyed pals, but I'm filing this one under "The 20X Trap:" Flaws that are "dead giveaways" in 105mm Super Macro shots....but absolute non-issues on the wrist.

If someone comes out w/ a DW and if the Chinese suddenly enter a fit and finish revolution, I might vaguely worry about the dial, but the former are far more easily spottable than the latter.

saw one of these this weekend in new york city... absolutely stunning...

why can't we get some more accurate franck mullers in the larger sizes?

I hae no idea hy they won't o the Conquistador king chrono, either in the curvex or the Cortez(square) case--the non-chrono moel sold out @ 400 bucks and the king chrono gens use 7750's and have a solid caseback. Talk about easy-to-get-accurate repping.

Get a 350$ MWB Rolex SD and you'll be able to sell it the same price in a year from now if not more

If you're only going to buy one, I'd also factor in versatility to the accuracy/cost equation. My vote for the most accurate and versatile rep would be the VC overseas, which can be worn w/ anything on any occasion..and for $400 you'd have enough left over for the only mods that badboy needs--a cross swap and an AR coat.

I love that one too...but we'll never have a rep of that GEM and you know that...I am a huge fan...love them...one of my favourites is the following one......there is also a RG version of this one...pure and simple class...the ultimate watch for me...considering the price of this one (around 10.000$) maybe I'd could get one day one 4 myself!

That's #2 on my semi-attainable-maybe-someday dreamwatch list behind the FM 10th Anniversary Casablanca Chrono, which I would actually never buy because it's too easily repped. But if I ever see a used Breguet Marine for a decent price I'll find the money....somehwere.

I can't remember where--Timezone? Collector's Time?--but I believe I saw a B-42 offered for well under $1000 a while ago while looking for an Oris for my cousin.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I think I can help you the most by reccomending you edit this thread, use the search engine, and privately contact people who you learn from that search might be able to source an MBW Royal Oak. I've been here quite some time, and I don't know specifically how to find an MBW w/o sending more than a few PM's. The people who know where to get (and those who sell MBW's) are pretty secretive for obvious reasons--I hope you don't get mad at the messenger, and I hope I'm wrong, but I think that using your third post to ask "Where can I buy an MBW" has probably decreased your chances of getting one but will instead get you a few unkind responses.

Good basis for a project... But very frustrating all the same, as getting everything to line up correctly can be a nightmare...

Hopefully you have better luck, Tribal!

Thanks for posting those pics, ubi--you can see the variation in the printing between the three examples posted in this thread. I'm fairly certain it would be possible to erase and reprint existing metal DW's for folks who need the numbers going in the "OEM" direction. If anone wants suggestions about how to prepare artwork and/or what kind of shop to contact about possible ways to improve the printing on their particular DW I might be able to help. Feel free to PM.

The technical aspects of this discussion are well beyond me--but the members reading this should remember that our pieces--even ETA's--are assembled in rep factories. We can all make our own decisions, but the movements I have serviced locally get complete teardowns, always with comments from my local smith (30+ years @ one of the country's premier vintage watchsellers) about what he found inside. I'll ask him to be sure, but I'd bet a dollar if I asked him whether to do a complete teardown on a rep or not, he'd says emphatically: "Take it apart."

On the contrary, removing residuals with acetone before curing exposes to the danger that acetone seeps between the crystal and the cyclops.

Speaking of something seeping between the cyclops and crystal--I've been removing muller crystals for a couple years by dabbing some liquid paint stripper where the case and crystal meet to remove the uv glue, with no damage to crystal and metal. Takes 10-30 min to seep in. Has anyone tried just dabbing some paint stripper around the edge of a cyclops to see what happens? Don't know if paint stripper would remove AR, though...

If it works it would mean no heat and no blades.

My first step would be to improve the printing dramatically. A couple days and I'll be able to give you an example of what printing on metal should look like....

On Edit--these individual pieces vary dramatically due to wear and tear and the process used to print them---this one looks like about a 6. IMO that's why an overlay is the way to go. Finishing the metal was the hardest part...

haha its not there is much that TWG can do about it, you can't just go and kick his ass in China. Trust me, you don't want to end up in jail in China - you really don't.

Karma aspect notwithstanding, I have to agree w/ Andrew. I probably would not buy a watch from a guy who steals watermarked pics when he can get unwatermarked from the factory/distributors anyway.

Anyone have one of the Muller Curvex chrono's? I doubt there's more than one case being used for all the subtle variants available, but yet I'm getting different measurements from our dealers, on their sites and via PM. If anyone can help a brother out and accurately measure their case I might be able to make it worth your time, depending on what size the case turn out to actually be....think I figured out a way to fix the clear back flaw for not a lot of dough.

oh, good to know

This is great info, but I still don't see why anyone would pay extra for 14k (or I guess 12.5K) gold in watch. 14K looks totally different than 18k, making your watch arguably less accurate. Since the weight would still not be right w/ 14K, I'd much rather have some rep factory invest their capital in PVD gold plating than 14k gold, which would look like 18k and solve the durability problem of electroplating. If I liked TT rolexes, I'd also consider buying an OEM gold crown, one of those aftermarket 18k bezels and TT bracelets from a reputable source. Making a gold watch truly 1:1 is expensive--no way around it.

Here are a efw books I have found on Amazon.com, anyone seen these and can provide any comments?

Simplified Mechanical Watch Repair For Profit

Practical Watch Repairing

I think I checked the latter out from the library a couple years ago--I just wanted to learn how to remove and replace hands, dials, and crowns, and it was fine for that. I think anyone w/o years of experience who tries to do movement work on a nice rep is asking for trouble.

Bablefish doesn't work quite as well as they planned, huh?

Anyway, I doubt they will make that one. No use for it.

I can think of even fewer uses for the Mellow Yellow, so you never know....in any event my vote goes to the Black Magic, as long as they can get the ceramic ad Ti right.

I'm confused. Are all the HBB rotors stickered or are some engraved? The Mellow Yellow is undoubtedly stickerized, but some of the pics I've seen seem to show engraved rotors (not that it matters much since the font is too bold and the casebacks are missing the "materials" engraving)...or maybe just pics that make the stickers look like engraving? All of the "H's" on the bridge are stickers, right?

Thank god you only have to read the dealer reviews one time for an hour to figure out who's worthy of your hard earned dough and then about 10 minutes a month just to see if someone has gone insane and started posting pics of his pool. This place may be a club but there isn't a secret password. It's all about knowledge, I think. If you actually want to play a productive role in this freakshow you should read as much as you have time to read, do a search when you want to know something before you ask, and look at lots of pics of reps comparing them to pics of gens. It's all a matter of buildng your knowledge and making flaw spotting "automatc." Being able to point out a flaw and/or answering a question (how thick is a PAM 063 crown supposed to be would be nice, IMO) is the key to cred. If you put in your time, you'll know when you have something to say or ask that you're fairly certain hasn't been asked or said 100 times since. Before you know it you'll be as whacked out and jaded as any of us. And you won't get upset about dealer reviews...because you'll hardly ever read them.

Hi,

I got this nice angelus mov, cal 190. It needs a good clean up and oil, but it is working a keeping time.

Can I use this move in a pam 203 8 days?, if so any ideas what case and who can help ?

I recognize that I have limited knowledge about vintage pams.

Thanks

BTW all was not lost--I bought a 31 jewel El Primero for the same price. Apparently it needs $360 in parts and labor to get to godod as new....$370 for an El Primero may not be the deal of the century but it is the deal of the week.

I have a cartier tank ETA 2000, like it a lot but its a little small next to my panerais but a nice change when wearing something smart.

Don't know much about the Santos but I had a Tortue. It was damn accurate, but I would still caution against it (and most other simple dress watch reps) if you're an accuracy nut like me. I may have taken things too far at this point, but I think the simpler and dressier a watch is, the easier it is to tell rep from gen even if everything is "1:1." Gen makers know that the simpler the watch the more they have to obsess over fit and finish details. The tortue rep just didn't have that gen...I don't know...smoothness. Hard to pin down. Pics just don't pick up the intangibles.

I wish they'd make the dumont in solid 18k a la the FM Casablanca (which shows that when doing a watch truly 1:1, including fit and finish, makes economic sense the Chinese are perfectly capable of doing it) That baby would immediately become a Cartier collectors' holy grail.

Totally awesome review!! You could teach some of the rep makers about attention to detail

Best review in months!! Thought I was reading Watch Time for a minute there!

This watch is another example of how close the fctories are getting these watches---the fit and finish issues still make them instantly spottable for any collector (and always will for 1/10 the price of a gen)but they fulfill their purpose--which is tricking 99% of the people who see them on your wrist that we're wearing gens. I can think of maybe 5 or 6 pieces available 3 years ago that were in the class of the new Breits. Now there are, what, 25 or 30?

I've converted many people by saying something like, "You have good taste in the suits you buy, the car you drive, and making your house look nice and you wear a G-shock to work?" Then I go into how cool it is to wear a minaturized, complex machine, designed by brilliant engineers and artists & crafted by true artisans...when they inevitably bring up the obscene cost of high end watches I just tell them that they can get a 99% replica, including the same "nanomachine" as a $5000 watch for the price of a couple Citizens. If that doesn't get them they'llnever get it. At least in DC, you'd be shocked at the number of guys who wear $3000 bespoke suits, Lobb shoes, Brioni ties.....and a $75 Seiko.

%

I have been telling people the gens have thinner crowns for a over a year.....people still like those fat ones that are a sure tell as a rep.

But like kruzer points out, it's all in the gap. An optical illusion. The aftermarket crowns certainly are too thick but unless you carry a caliper around with you, they're better because of the visual relationship between the crown and the guard.

I used to wonder why the hell anyone would want to put a 2.1mm crown on their watch until I threw an OEM guard on my 051--instantaneously the rep crown looked perfect instead of slightly too thin. Everyone said even the thin 40mm crowns were too thin, but as it turns out they're actually dead on. When kruzer noticed the same thing when he installed his Jimmy guard w/ a supposedly also too thin lello crown I figured what happened was that the chinese were getting a lot of crowns right and that it never occured to any of us (pr the factories, apparently) that the guards and not the crowns were source of the problem. Now we know that the latest crown s are still 1.9, which means that the H series rep guards are also too gappacious, so to speak, as well as too non-halfcircleish, and unthickish. Flav, can you do us a big favor and measure the gen's guard's "gap?" that way we would know how thick of crowns we need to source for our H series rep guards.

Excellent work, and I love the baseball!!

Not sure if the "serie mod" included engraving a serial # (hard to keep track of all the pams with and without serial #'s anymore) but what kind of shop would you look for to do a serial #? CNC engraver, maybe? I don't get excited about the backs of my watches usually, but the complete lack of a serial # on my 222 bugs the heck out of me...

Pulled up all the old posts and PMs and got the dates, you charged me $35 (not 20) for a watch you held for somewhere between 1-2 months (sorry can't narrow it down within those dates any more till I get home and find the box)

What would be interesting is if those who saved the box joe returned to them could scan the postmarks. If a few people do this the issue can be laid to rest. Joe just wrote for all to see that the charges were for "shipping, not handling." It seems to me that Joe's ethics can be judged in part by wether the postmarks indicate $25 worth of shipping costs or $4-$6 shipping costs after he collected $25 to ship watches he had held for a period of time.

Relaxman: nothing is wrong with making money, of course. You do make distinctions, though, between different ways of making money, don't you?

I couldn't care less, really, about the overarching point of this thread since I assume everyone does their DD before sending their watches out to anyone, and RBJ's been so ehaustively discussed it seems to me that any RWGer who can type redbigjoe69 in a search box will have more than enough info to make a decision about who they're going to hire without Richard's, your, or my help.

I would like to respond to your post about RT's motive for posting in this thread: Reputations are earned over time by our own words and deeds, and just speaking as a guy who's read and heard about Richards words and deeds for, I guess, about four years now: if he says he's posting something to cover his fellow members--especially new members'-- backs and that he doesn't have any alterior motives, you can take that to the bank--that's what he's doing.