capt_cope

Motivation will always be complex, probably due to the fact that the very people who make poor descisions can't rightly come up with a simple answer. However the root cause for continuing bad choices is allways going to be a lack of responsibility (talking functioning adults here) And it seems to me that mentally incapacitated people are not capable of taking responsibility for their own actions, legally or otherwise. As for intoxication that too stemmed from a choice. If I get drunk and rape a girl can I be held responsible? Of course. It was my own choices that resulted in the final criminal act, and that is my responsibility. Someone who is not mentally fit to make these choices isn't really a factor. And as to the questions, they are too open ended. In all the cases the answer is no, unless the perpetrator has the means to make you fear for your life. If someone breaks into my house and trys to take my cell phone they will not get shot unless/until they present a threat to me, a cell phone is cheap, a life is not. Not to mention there are legal ways of resolving the situations until a serious bodily threat is introduced. A man walks into my house with a knife and I don't care if he's after my oven mits or my guns, he's going to get shot if he doesn't drop the knife in an expeditious manner. But we are getting away from my original topic and into lengthy debates in the gray area. Regardless of motivation, environment, religion, skin color, or nationality, it is the person that needs to be accountable. NOT the tool.

Tim as a conservative I'm offended by that. The [censored] Neil posted isn't conservative it's just dim. Dim and childish.

I'll assume you're being sarcastic.

I don't think so. I enjoy shooting, yet I live in a city, and I work in the city. Why should I have to move to the country to enjoy my hobby? It's bad enough you can't find any rifle ranges downtown, but to have discriminating laws dependant on where you live? (to be fair it's close, Milwaukee is a [censored] hole of a city, and they are already talking about registration of firearms inside the city. The moment that day comes I'm moving.) And it still doesn't address any perceived problems with ownership of firearms. Face it, criminals don't own their guns legally, so introducing more laws to stop said criminals is just dumb. What we need is more enforcement of the laws already on the books.

Oh I'm well aware of hate-mongering. Doesn't matter how you dress it up, the "evil jew" meet the "evil muslim" I should probably inform my muslim friends that they are making a huge mistake, clearly they haven't been devout enough, they aren't terrorists. That site is [censored]. It doesn't take much to found a bunk idea on quotes from a religious text out of context. Look! "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9) See men are better than women in the bible. I should go tell my old pastor Marylin about this devastating find. I'm sure she'll be the first to denounce the bible. "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14) Man yet another zinger. How do women console themselves in my Church? "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24) Ok I think I've found enough.

I live in a suburb, and I see degenerates every day. I read about them in the news. A degenerate (in my opinion) is someone who has no desire to take control of their life, and refuses to be responsible for their actions. From abusive husbands and drug addicted, spoiled teenagers in ritzy suburbs, to corrupt executives, and common criminals and rapists. I don't think you can limit degeneracy to a specific demographic. From your tone I assume you thought I was making a racist comment. Far from it. I've seen enough drug dealing white kids living in their parents $250,00 houses and enough genuinely good men and women that were white, black, asian, hispanic, and middle eastern, living in environments ranging from little more than a broken down shanty of a house to a veritable mansion, sitting on 300 acres, to know that race and creed are the least of the things that make a man. And in reality that's what it all comes down to, beyond just guns, the fact that people are willing to lie, cheat, and steal their way through life, regardless of their actual crimes, at the base of it I think what it all comes down to is this: Responsibility. No one wants to take it anymore, and we are seeing the effects. What's the resounding theme from people being arrested on COPS? I didn't do it, it's not my fault. And now society is starting to agree with them, "they can't help it". "He was predispositioned to domestic violence," "he grew up in a rough neighborhood," "he started hanging out with the wrong crowd." [censored]. He chose to beat his wife, He chose to kill someone, he chose to sell drugs. That's the fact, every day we are faced with tough decisions, and the choices we make determines who we are. It doesn't matter how many excuses get thrown in the way, the truth is, behind it all there was a choice, and degenerates continue to make the wrong ones, knowing full well the outcome, but refusing to step up and accept it. How can you change something that you won't even admit is wrong?

No. Individuals and groups too cowardly to take responsibility for their own actions pin their actions on religion. It is a facade. If you look even half-heartedly at most religions like Christianity you'll find no religious reason behind actions like the crusades. Someone please show me the passage in the Koran where it states that all Jews must die, and any Christians or Americans you capture should be beheaded on video. These are the actions of sick individuals and groups, not of religions, and to think otherwise is foolish. I've read the Bible and nowhere does it even HINT that abortion clinics should be bombed.

Not really. I have never raised anything but my voice at someone in anger. If you can't control your most basic of emotions such as anger or lust you have no business walking about on the streets. And by succumb I mean act upon. Feeling emotion is something that no one can control, but what everyone CAN control is the manner in which we act upon these emotions. When someone cuts me off in trafic I get [censored]. I might utter some curses in their direction, or if I'm really mad honk. I don't run them off the road and drive over their bodies. I'm sure the homicide statistics are WAY higher in the US than in most countries, hell, road-rage is a problem. What the [censored] is road rage but a bunch of people so un-able to control themselves that they try to kill people because they got cut off or were stuck behind someone moving too slow. You don't have to convince me I'm surrounded by cretins on a daily basis, I need only open the newspaper to figure that one out. And as for the conservative think tank bit... none of the liberal sites offered any statistics I could find quickly. I did some more searching but all the liberal sites quoted horridly biased surveys and failed to produce any real numbers. With a political subject like guns and gun violence it is very tough to find any truly accurate sources, but one fact can be gleaned: gun violence DID increase after 1997 in the UK. How much is debatable based on who's data you're using. This site, while clearly biased in favor of firearms has hard statistics from official sources. Tough to argue with that. http://www.ctsportsmen.com/news/gun_sales_...me_and_acci.htm

The fact of the matter is that people who succumb to "basic human emotions" and do "stupid things" have no business carrying or owning firearms. Stupidity and guns don't mix. I do believe that with proper education and training most people would be able to handle the responsibility. And as to disputes escalating into carnage... I could pull thousands if not hundreds of thousands of disputes that ended in death and comas with absolutely no firearms and no knives involved. One in particular sticks out to me, as it happened in my city: a man was beaten into a coma by a group of kids after honking his horn at them to vacate the middle of the road. He died. Their weapons? Tree limbs, rakes, and shovel handles. Here's a link: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-1...aukee-mob_x.htm The greatest weapon anyone can possess is their mind. And the most dangerous people are the ones who don't use their minds or their self control. I know a man that lost his self control, he's now a felon. He got into a fight with a man, knocked him down, and pried out a car battery to bash the other man's head in. THE TOOL ISN'T THE CAUSE. Oh and I wouldn't feel safer because my local police can't carry firearms, statistics show the criminals still carry theirs. Here are some statistics about gun violence in the UK: "England and Wales Both Conservative and Labour governments have introduced restrictive firearms laws over the past 20 years; all handguns were banned in 1997. Yet in the 1990s alone, the homicide rate jumped 50 percent, going from 10 per million in 1990 to 15 per million in 2000. While not yet as high as the US, in 2002 gun crime in England and Wales increased by 35 percent. This is the fourth consecutive year that gun crime has increased." So much for no one being able to carry guns eh?

Indeed! Sorry about that, didn't notice the other one.

Were it legal... I think most would.

Thanks for the compliment, though I'll state that you must know either fewer or a different breed of gun owner than the ones I know. Granted I hunt, so I have killed living things, but I know many MANY gun owners through various sporting events who have never, and will never shoot a living thing unless it is a direct threat to their (or their family/friends') wellbeing. Perhaps you view personal firearms as nothing more than tools for killing, but I can say that only two of my guns have ever been used in that capacity, yet I still value my others just as much. What is a hammer incapable of driving nails worth? Or glue that can't bond? If firearms were tools to kill there would be no reason for people who don't kill to own them. But I know, for a fact, that many gun owners do not, and will not kill anything. I think the perception of guns as weapons needs to be changed. While they are capable, so are bricks, yet those are perceived most often to be building material. I think you're looking past my actual statement, Here's what I wrote: "If everyone in that college building had been a responsible, gun carrying citizen, how many people other than the gunman would have died?" There is a big difference between a college kid with a gun and a responsible gun carrying citizen. I have met plenty of the latter, and only a handful of the former. I firmly believe that no one should be allowed to own firearms without proper education, and I wish courses like hunters safety were mandatory, even for non-gun owners. Firearms are a facet of life here in the US, and treated without respect or caution, they are dangerous.

http://www.store-mix.com/ko-bai/product.php?pid=154993 speaks for itself.

Wow. I was floored while reading a thread about the tragedy at VT, but was even more astounded by these words posted by TTK: "This freedom to bear arms needs to be challenged in the 21st century......we need to move towards a society where it is unaccpetable that the average citizen has access to weapons......assault rifles.....multiple guns ownership......etc etc.......there is simply no need for it....as demonstarted in many other countries worldwide........but this position will be disputed by Yanks.....and supported by Americans.........there is a significant difference......! I was embroiled in a discussion with Fordzilla on the old RWG about gun ownership....his position was that he needed a gun to provide protection against armed burglars.......the truth is that any armed burglar is not likely to be a registered gun owner......but has more than likely stolen the gun from a registered gun owner......who ...if they hadn't had the gun in the first place.....would lead to the lack of need on Fordzilla's part to own a gun in teh second place....EVERY country in the world suffers from burglary.....involving simple theft or indeed violence against the homeowner.......howver because of the lack of access to a firearm.....the results are usually much different.........I keep a baseball bat as a deterrent to any possible intruder who is highly likely to be armed with a knife rather a gun.....! The easy acquisiton pf guns.....allied to a media which perpetuates violence on TV / film and every applicable medium.....numbs most Americans to what is happening to it's society....! I don't want to go thru' all the [censored] that I've seen in similar posts before......all I'll say is that I watch the media discussing what steps can be taken.....all the apologists are spouting off at the mouth about knee jerk reaction towards gun control....others are asking...'how can we determine what the lone gunman had going thru' his head'......they want to examine the psychology of the murderer......NONE of that will save the next massacre victims.........the TRUTH is that if ALL the gunmen involved had NO access to guns......these tragedies would be less devastating.....! Guns are weapons.....specifically designed for killing....there is simply no good reason to own one.....!" And as much as I hate to get angry at a forum memer, I just can't imagine what the [censored] is wrong with that guy's mind. I'll preface my comments with the fact that I am biased, very much so. I'm a life member of the NRA, I own many firearms, pistols, rifles, shotguns, and even "Assault weapons" if you want to call my FAL that. I love to shoot, it's a skill and hobby, just as modding watches is. I also love to hunt, never got into the deer hunting scene, but I love grouse and pheasant hunting, and am really taking to coyote hunting (around here those damn animals are smarter than most people I know.) That said. If Neil's current time is correct on the forums he clearly isn't in the US, and (in my opinion) has absolutely no basis for either judging American society, or deciding which of MY rights should be null. But be that as it may I'll address his points. This freedom to bear arms needs to be challenged in the 21st century......we need to move towards a society where it is unaccpetable that the average citizen has access to weapons......assault rifles.....multiple guns ownership......etc etc.......there is simply no need for it....as demonstarted in many other countries worldwide........but this position will be disputed by Yanks.....and supported by Americans.........there is a significant difference......! First off, how do you define need? Do you need a car? Cars contribute both directly and indirectly the destruction of our environment. Lots of people have them though, and lots of people have multiple cars. I don't need a gun to survive, but I do need guns to continue to enjoy a quality of life that I have been enjoying. Who are you to argue that my quality of life should be lessened? You bring up other countries as "proof" that no one needs guns. Funny, the last time I looked at the statistics crime, murders, and even *gasp* gun violence INCREASED after firearms were banned or restricted. (UK... Australia...) But we all know that those stats are twisted depending on the author's bias, so it's a toss up. You certianly don't have any more proof than I on that count. The easy acquisiton pf guns.....allied to a media which perpetuates violence on TV / film and every applicable medium.....numbs most Americans to what is happening to it's society....! Strange... I'm not numb to what is happening to our society. I see it every day I drive to work. Our society, based on strong religious convictions, is crumbling at our feet. Now I'm not saying that one religion is right, and all others are wrong, what I am saying is this: Most religions I am aware of seem to offer sets of guidelines for their followers. Usually some bit about "do unto others" is included in there. As more and more of our societies members become degenerates, so progresses our society. No longer is the majority concerned with the well being of their neighbors, but rather what they can steal from their neighbors. And this applies to both corrupt executives in large companies, continually shipping more and more jobs over to the east just to save a buck, and to your most basic of burglars. Both are raping our society for their own gain. If you really did your research on my society, you'd realize that doctors kill more people than auto accidents and guns put together. Yet you tell me that I shouldn't have the right to own guns, because some degenerate somewhere might kill people with a gun? Excuse my French, but that's [censored]ed up son. Banning all guns will result in two things: A lot of [censored] off Americans, and a lot of criminals who still have their un-registered guns. Your average criminal can't buy a gun legally anyways (at least if he's committed a felony or domestic abuse) and now the answer to illegal guns is to remove all legal ones? Dumb logic. the TRUTH is that if ALL the gunmen involved had NO access to guns......these tragedies would be less devastating.....! Strange I I don't rate any school shootings as any more or less devastating than the destruction of the World Trade Center, and those terrorists had box cutters for God's sake. A gun is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. It is incapable of being good, or evil, and it only does what it is made to do. The same can be said for rocks, knives, forks, spoons, bats, irons, golf-clubs, nail guns, hammers, and all the other tools that people have managed to kill each other with. You simply cannot address the problem of violence by banning a tool, people will just find another one. Guns are weapons.....specifically designed for killing....there is simply no good reason to own one.....! Again wrong. I have many good reasons to own one, and many more reasons to own multiple firearms. Hell the only one I need is this: It's my RIGHT, as a citizen of the United States of America. But it also lets me shoot sporting clays, go hunting, shoot bench rest targets, practice shooting at 500 yards, shoot trap, work long and hard at perfecting the ultimate handload for each gun. And here's something else to try on for size: If everyone in that college building had been a responsible, gun carrying citizen, how many people other than the gunman would have died?

I know (and you would too if you searched) that there have been multiple threads about removing the noobmariner's bezel. Or rather, how attempting to remove the bezel results in nothing more than a beat up case and a bent bezel. I have proven this last bit wrong. Oh sure my case is beat up, and yes my bezel is bent. But I also have two puncture wounds from a [censored]ing screwdriver, one in each of my thumbs. Didn't think you could get a screwdriver inserted into your thumb? Neither did I... until I removed this damn bezel. So if you're really curious as to what it's like taking the bezel off your noobmariner, I have some shortcuts: Grab a screwdriver, the largest one in a "precision" kit worked well for me. Then place the tip of said screwdriver on the fleshy part of your thumb. Strike repeatedly until screwdriver is deeply embedded into the side of your thumb. Remove screwdriver. Place tip of screwdriver on opposite thumb (the non-skewered one) Strike repeatedly. Congrats, you've just accomplished your goal. I need a beer. Many beers. Possibly some sailor jerry rum too. For the record the sub was butchered allready, it was my first rep, and in an attempt to get some silicone on the o-ring I used my handy dandy 100% silicone spray. I was holding the o-ring, but I failed to notice that all my overspray was landing inside my damn open caseback. Needless to say the movement was done at that point, started running a couple hours per day fast. I took it to a local watch guy who claimed to have no qualms about fixing a replica. Of course he managed to scratch the [censored] out of my case trying to open it with... a needle file... and he broke the hairspring when adjusting the timing (used the same needle file for that) I managed to keep some semblance of self control because I didn't drive back and shoot the asshat, but I was [censored]. Then I bought a "classic" ETA sub from Josh, great watch, esp. after a new bezel insert.

They'd probably charge you as an importer of counterfeit goods (since technically you are receiving the counterfeit goods from a forign country you are importing them.) I'd read all of said letter very VERY carefully before signing it, you may be able to just eat the cost of the watch and claim ignorance. It seems to me (though I am no lawyer, just using common sense here) that signing for the package is an admission of guilt, and may well leave you vulnerable to prosecution. "Why no I don't know anything about a package from China. Why did I get this letter about one? I don't know anyone in china." Of course if you paid via bank transfer and your name is on the package... you're screwed. Either way best of luck.

Well I joined ebay just to report him. While I was at it I couldn't help but "ask the seller a question" mainly: Why are you trying to sell a fake Omega? Here was his response, enjoy: I don't have time to deal with obnoxious people as yourself, the watch is real, the only reason I'm selling it so low, is that I don't have the original box or paperwork that came with the watch. I know how difficult it is on e-bay to believe if something is real or not but if you are a serious buyer, you can bid on it when I re-list it and if you are the winner check with a Jewler or Omega and find out and by some chance its a fake you can return for a full refund.

And I just did some digging, looks like the number you see on the back of the case (10218) is wrong, apparently the limited editon was limited to 10007 watches, so XXXXX /10218 has to be a fake anyways.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Omega-Seamaster-Limite...1QQcmdZViewItem That bezel looks wrong to me. Any other opinions? I don't have an ebay account and I can't figure out how to report it.

Have you ever noticed how many variations of a simple SS "modern" Submariner there are? If they came out with a perfect rep it would sell like hotcakes... until everyone who wanted a perfect sub had one... The way it stands dealers and makers can just "improve" one or two visual aspects on a proven seller with plenty of flaws (crown guards... date font... cyclops...etc. etc.) and suddenly they have a NEW sub that die-hard submariner fans will have to pick-up. I think they are afraid that the market will dry up as soon as a truly perfect rep comes out. That's just my two cents.

Well I can't tell by looking at it, though if I saw it on the street I'd probably stop the person and ask about it. I always thought the meters/feet versions were some serious collectors pieces.

Quick edit! Just got an email back from Josh, sounds like this was just a mixup, and should my boss' daughter want it resolved I'm sure Josh will be willing to help out. I'd also like to point out that after reading my post again I come off rather negative towards Josh, and while I'm still a little worried about the situation, I'm sure that Josh will live up to his reputation, and I'm not in any way "bashing" him as a dealer, I have personally had nothing but excellent service, quick accurate response to my emails, and very swift shipping.

Here's the deal, After receiving an excellent watch (sub beginmariner) from Josh, and after reading the countless good reviews about Josh and his service, I showed the site to my boss (don't want him thinking I could afford a REAL sub!) He was impressed with the level of quality in both the pictures of the Daytona selection (he has had a gen TT for a little over 10 years) and the look and feel of my sub. I came to find out that he showed the site to his daughter who ended up buying a Louis Vuitton Tambor Rose Gold. The watch arrived today, and the daughter hasn't seen it yet, but I noticed one HUGE problem: The watch only barely resembles the picture Josh has posted. I'll try to get a picture of it tomorrow so you too can compare what arrived, but suffice to say it isn't even in the same ballpark. The dial is all wrong, completely different graphic, not to mention "Louis Vuitton" is nowhere to be seen, that and there are no hour markers. The case is the same, same RG plating, same "engraving" on it, but the face of the watch is not at all what my boss' daughter ordered. If she has a problem with the watch I'll be in touch with Josh, I hope he'll be willing to explain or send out the correct model. Just thought I'd warn the rest of you who may have been thinking of picking this up (for yourself or a loved one) that what you see is NOT what you get. I also have to say I'm a little shocked, I know there is no real standard or regulation for reps, but based on the numerous review of watchwindersworld and then my own experience ordering a rep, I really didn't see this one coming. This isn't a "little white lie" no hidden meaning behind "asia eta" here, it's just a different watch than pictured. Clearly a rep of the same model, but a very different one. Here's a link to the watch she ordered: http://watchwindersworld.com/lv10007-tambo...ial-p-2218.html

That looks an awful lot like the movement in my "beginermariner" from Josh. Sure it's a pretty cheap watch at $108 shipped, but it looks pretty darn nice. and mine also manages to keep excellent time (about +5 per day) If it was my sub that was busted I'd try to fix it for $12. Failing that... I'd probably do some more research and find another Sub with an ETA that looks as nice as the one I have. Either way good luck. *If the watch looks REALLY good you might also consider spending the money to have The Zigmeister put in a gen crown and aftermarket tube, I haven't spent the money on that yet, but I've heard nothing but praise for The Zigmeister and his work.