P4GTR

The Jos subs I have dealt with (ETA, non perfects) have been called out by the following:

watchsmith: "I can just tell after 25 years in the business. They feel different. Its nice though"

long time rolex owners: "too light/cheap feeling, but very nice copy"

the one's that seem to pick it out as a rep do so very quickly, and those are probably the one's that you were going to be hard pressed to fool no matter what you do.

The rep HL bracelt doesnt have the buttery fit and finish of the gen. But its close.

I can only take so much beratement at a time for small post count.

yeah but was the dealer hot?

good story mate.

Good lord no....

I have servants to carry things for me out there

.

I lol'd.

Don't ask me about the rest of this thread though, I pretty much have no idea whats going on, but its so g0d d@mn interesting.

You'll survive.

Actually you'll flourish now that you've found RWG.

One of these two would insure a pretty fun summer

You Just missed a 177 from TTK for

i just saw your thread....i think a more specific title would probably help get more viewers / answers for your questions.....

i'll try to answer as many of your questions as i can....

there are generally two types of people with regard to pam knowledge: i) no knowledge at all, ii) LOTS of knowledge (borderline obsessed -- this includes paneristi and rep hounds like us). whenever i show my friends my reps (who fall into camp #1), they are always amazed at the display caseback of the pams -- they wouldn't know a dagger swan neck from a rotor (all of my display caseback pams have standard 6497 asian movements w/ cortes du' whatever bridges). however, show the back of your watch to anyone who knows a lot about watches or pams (ie. paneristi), and they will immediately be able to tell that it isn't a genuine pam given the fit and finish of the movement, regardless of whether or not it has a swan neck.

i've never had any trouble with my asian 6497 handwind models; for pams, i've always chosen to spend my dollars on straps instead of swiss movements (you can read here for more about my experiences in collecting reps). some people feel better having a swiss movement, and that's understandable....everyone has different thoughts on rep collecting. i believe there has been a relatively elaborate discussion about your "are the swiss movements in pams really swiss?" question -- to be honest, given my philosophy of buying asian movements in pam reps and spending the difference on straps, i've pretty much totally ignored these discussions, so i can't help much there (if you're really curious and want to know, i'd try some creative searches in the panerai section to try to find these threads).

unfortunately, if you don't want to to send your watch to be relumed, davidsen is really your only option. lots of people take issue with davidsen's fonts (they are generally not as accurate as standard reps from josh/trusty, etc) -- look at the pictures and see if it bothers you. you should also know that some of davidsen's watches have different cases compared to other reps -- i'm not sure whether this is the case on the 177h, etc.

once again, i don't claim to be an expert on swiss movements in pam reps, but i am pretty sure there are versions of the swan neck regulator that do have a functional screw that will "regulate" the movement. you should be able to confirm this in old threads as well.

i hope this helps; i think you'll find the membership here to be helpful -- you clearly have done some meaningful research to pose the questions in your thread.

good luck with your decision; feel free to respond with any other questions you may have....

deltatahoe

You've settled it. Can't tell you how appreciative I am for the reply's.

Pam 177H Asian 6497 from Jos will go down soon. Then some bob or hktan action.

-There is a large price difference between the asian and swiss version. Are they both asian made movements, and/or will they perform with the same reliability?

-Going all out and getting the swiss with swan neck, are you really going to fool that many more critics, or yourself? Anyone that can tell its a rep is going to know its a rep even with the swan neck. At least thats my assumption.

-The asian is $188, and has had good reviews across the board movement wise. Do I really want to spend the additional $120+ for a tiny piece of metal (swan neck) and Swiss "ETA knockoff" (Asian is Asian, right?) that will not fool anyone that wasn't already fooled by the movement to begin with?

-I feel like I am having a conversation with myself. I'm considering contributing to the site (vip) but damn if I can't get a few questions answered, who's the fool then?

Congrats. Nice spyderco too.. dragonfly?

Thanks Jumbie. Trying to figure all of this out is fun, but sometimes frusterating with limited means to do it. Trying to find the minor differences between the H and non-H models, I miss something so obvious.

Anyone else care to comment, i'll take comments, criticisms, whatever.

I've changed my mind so many times i'm dizzy. I've been researching though, and hope to have some well formulated questions deserving of answers.

I have decided that since I wear a titanium bracelet daily, a titanium pam is the way I'd like to go for the other wrist. I assume that means I am shopping model 177's. I haven't learned the difference between the 177 and the 177H, if that question is frowned upon, pretend I didn't ask.

These watches come with the movement options of 6497 swiss, or asian. With or without swan neck. Now, if I want the swan neck, I need to go swiss as this option is not offered on the asian models that I know of. The question is, isn't the swiss movement really the asian movement anyways (thats what i've seen being said in searches)?

If I opt to spend roughly $400 on the Swiss swan neck version, won't the movement still be obvious that it is a rep? Is having a swan neck really going to fool all those that wouldn't have been fooled otherwise? Or is this some mechanical marvel that makes the watch last a lifetime longer? Should I save myself the $125 and go with the asian movement?

Source. My last issue. I've solely dealt with Jos, but I am considering going with a davidsen if it is worth my while. I am not asking you to divulge any secrets, but I am asking you to help me make an educated decision. I would like lume that actually glows and a correct cannon pin without having to send the watch back out somewhere else for modding.

I am open to specific suggestions as to which model and from whom you feel would best suit me. I appreciate any advice you can offer and hope to hear some reply's that get me closer to a decision. Thanks!

A little late to this, but it came up in my searches, and I enjoyed the read. Thanks for sharing the adventure.

Theres only a certain amount of money im willing to pay for a certain amount of satisfaction. Face it, it is not the real thing. The pricepoint gets too high, I'm shopping used gen, or giving up on reps and buying a seiko like everyone else. I will not spend more then ~$300 for a replica watch mostly because of the current QC issues. How much can you really expect someone to pay for a watch that could fall apart in your hands, leaving you SOL?

Theres only a certain amount of bullsh!t i'm willing to deal with for a certain amount of savings. The amount of patience required to deal with rep's is a testimate to the fact that I must be getting old. Waiting to dignify the price enough so that I take the plunge on the purchase. Waiting to hear from the collector, waiting for the package to arrive, then something even minor is wrong, and the waiting to and from has just begun. How much money can you really expect someone to fork out, for a product that only a mother could love in terms of patience, research, and dedication.

I think it would be cool to make a few from interesting objects. Like the hktan strap that was made from the old railway coach.

Dont forget the old leather shoes too. good leather there.

So this is why they call it a watch fetish.

bloody brilliant

With all the QC issues, I'm not willing to fork off much more then $300 for a rep due to possible dissappointment and loss of my hard earned money. The reps I look for have straight forward movements with few reliability issues.

$1300 for a watch would put a serious hurt on me financially. I have enjoyed the reps I've dealt with so far, and I think I will pick up a few more before they become more expensive or harder to find. SFSO will be my next rep. I'm highly anticipating it as a quality piece that will serve me for hopefully a lifetime.

I bet he wears that armitron digi.

"Ah, you make the sexy time?"

hair gets caught, soft areas get scratched.. the watch and bracelet always come off.

Those scratches are a pain to buff out, ya know?

I think if I had the money to blow on gold reps with a very small shelf-life, I'd rather "blow" the money on a gen. At least with stainless reps, if the quality is there, its there for good.

Thankfully i'm not partial to gold.

Impressive. Really cool seeing this come together for you all.

Thanks a lot everyone. I'll update with the results just in case this could help someone else in the future.

nice assets.

Grats on the new watch Stephanie. Don't have to tell you how nice this watch is.

sucks your jammed up like that TeeJay. Why not buy a new one, and swap the movement into the old one yourself? Maybe someone can do it for you here cheaper if you don't want to try yourself.