Bansenshukai

Do the chronos work?

They certainly do. It's a fully functional watch.

I just got this Invicta Speedway COSC Special Edition watch. I was actually surprised at the quality of it as I own a few Invictas in my 35 watch collection. For the most part, the quality of Invicta is similar to that of many reps we buy through our various collectors. I have even seen - though, not on my own watches - an Invicta where the lume "sticker" fell of one off the hour markers. Plus, I don't have any real love for the Miyota movement for some reason.

This particular Speedway came out at least four, or five years ago. I remember seeing it and wanting it. The price was too steep for me for an Invicta. I would spend $4200 on a Rolex, or Omega, but, I could never bring myself to trust Invicta's dismal Customer Service with that kind of investment. I snatched this one on an auction for a fraction of the price.

Movement: The movement is a very nicely decorated ETA 2894 which can be seen through a saphire crystal caseback. The movement has - allegedly - been certified to COSC standards. So far, it keeps great time. But, then again, so does my Yachtmaster rep (my Rolessium actually keeps up with my gen Rolexes and Omegas and the Yachty only cost $220). The movement has the watch's serial number stamped on it and this can be seen through the caseback. The minute and hour hands on the sub-dials all reset to the 12 o'clock position exactly. The movement on the second hand is sweeping and very smooth. I have a Tissot Le Locle with an ETA 7750 and the sweeping hand on that does not seem to sweep as smoothly as this Invicta's second hand.

Dial: The dial is nicely engraved. I have not seen this type of decoration on a dial in a while. This was one of the features that attracted me to this watch in the first place. Especially, since it makes this descendant of the venerable Rolex Daytona very unique. I have not warmed-up to Invicta's "homage" to all things Rolex; I prefer straight up rep-like imitation (it seems more honest). The hour and minute hands have a nice uncommon shape; they are straight and don't have any kind of design. Yet, the best watch hands I've seen are my gen Omega Seamaster's sword hands, so I'm biased to that look. But, the hands on this watch do not allow it to look over done.

Lume: Totally sucks! I think that the lume on this might be that fraud called "Trinite". In fact, I have Panerai reps with better lume right from the rep factory. Again, my rep Rolessium out performs the lume on the Speedway in so many ways. Plus, only the hands are lumed. I thought that the markers on the rehaut might also be lumed. But, they are not; they are just stainless steel squares. In my opinion, this should have been lumed with "Luminova" and these markers on the rehaut should be lumed too. I think this is one of the areas where Invicta consistently screws-up on their otherwise competitive watches.

Bracelet: Thick and substantial. Solid end links are a nice touch. The butterfly clasp is awesome! I always liked the detail of the center polished link. But, as a beater, this surface will suffer. The bracelet certainly adds heft to the watch. In conjuction with all the engraved detail on the caseback, I don't recommend one wear this watch on a 10 Km run. I've already made that mistake and I have a raw spot on my wrist; parts of the decorated caseback can work just like fine sandpaper.

Overall, I love the watch. It gets plenty of wrist time right now. In fact, it's displaced the wrist time my Omega Seamaster used to get.

Note: The photos are from the Invicta Review site. I have also provided the link to the actual webpage where these photos are originally displayed. I wish I could post my own wrist shots but I'm overseas right now and my camera is on the fritz. Take care.

Invicta Speedway COSC Review

For this one it took him days to photograph the watch . Look at all the different dates.....

Funny for us, but probably not for the potential buyer.....

I contacted the highest bidder of the Omega (the "winner"?) and related to him my concerns of his purchase to include the different dates on the pics as well as the issue with the clasp. He never got back to me. I would imagine it very embarassing if it was me caught like that. However, I also noticed that the "high bidder" on that auction has not bestowed a "feedback" on his seller. So, we shall see.

I just caught this, but this is the same seller as this "questionable" item. Now, I'm really suspicious of this guy.

Other Ebay Sale

Ebay Omega

If the link is broken, the item number is: 150224062263

The Omega logo looks a bit low to me. In fact, it looks exactly like my "Ultimate" PO from Joshua. That's why I'm concerned. I'd hate to see someone get shafted if it's a rep.

You know I'm going to disagree, so let's at least get past the part where I wish your dad well. Good luck, VB's dad.

As I was saying, if I were subject to a leader whose idea of helping was talking to his imaginary friend, I'd vote the other way next time.

I have been in combat. I have seen men die right before my eyes (four men, to be exact). While in the military, I have followed tremendous leaders and, so far, all of them have had a belief in prayer and/or a basic belief in God (from the Judeo-Christian tradition). Also, one of my most stellar subordinates is a devout Muslim. I have never experienced their leadership/followership abilities lessened by their beliefs. I also don't believe that a man's religious beliefs necessarily make anyone a good leader. So, while I understand that you disagree with a "leader whose idea of helping is talking to his imaginary friend" [a leader who thinks prayer is helpful in yielding a positive result], I don't understand your reasoning. Religion does not make a person a bad person, or a leader a bad leader by mere association. The abuse of such beliefs in order to push for a cause is what affects effective leadership. Heck, even my 16-year-old nephew knows that.

Jack Bauer is about the only "special ops" guy that probably wears that watch. I have never met anyone on any team that I have ever worked with, or in, that ever purchased, or wore this model of a watch.

I'm going to have to ask. What is the pun with your name Nouns Defions? I don't get it, but is it to do with defiant words?

The real phrase should be "Nous Defions". If you Google "Nous Defions" and "Special Forces" you'll get a better idea as to the meaning. There was another fellow with the name on another board so I added the extra "n" for distinction between the two.

The other day I was walking with my wife and her mother to a well-known electronics shop. It is in a good part of town and it was daylight.

After parking the car, we got out and were talking about a laptop computer we intended to purchase for my brother-in-law for his birthday. I could hear a man standing near a pick-up truck while arguing with a young woman who was attempting to get into the truck and drive away. It seemed that they knew each other. Another man was standing idly by the shouting man; apparently, he was a friend of his. At the point we passed them nearest the row of parked cars on our side, about seven meters to our right, the shouting man turns to us and yells "What the f@ck are you looking at, b#tch?!" as my wife glanced at all the yelling and screaming activity. I realized what he said and just kept my peripheral vision on the situation as we continued walking towards the store. My wife nervously looked straight ahead and I reassured her to not worry and we just kept on the previous conversation. Then, the man returns to the argument and says "I swear if people keep showing up, I'm just going to start shooting motherf#ckers!” At which point adjusted my pants in order to feel for the concealed Glock 19 I have a legal concealed carry permit for. We kept walking. Nothing happened. But, if he had threatened my wife, or her mother, or me, with a gun, he would probably have about three extra holes in him today.

Now, I'm highly trained in the use of firearms. I know most people are not. So, I do find myself concerned about some people's marksmanship skills and their shot placement, even when they are trying to defend themselves (even if they are "trained" police officers). However, I'm sure most criminals do not apply for legal permits to carry guns they intend to perpetrate crimes with. Even if a law was made to ban the production of all firearms in the United States and to confiscate all existing firearms, criminals will always gain access to them through a black market system and then use their illegally obtained weapons to harm civilians who would have absolutely no right to carry any firearms. Illicit drugs, for instance, are illegal. Yet, I wouldn't have to go far to get some should I be so inclined.

When I was a kid, New York City had an unfortunate incident where a drunk man used a gallon of gasoline he purchased to put a night club on fire (March 25, 1990). In the end, 69 people lay dead. It was mass murder by a deranged man. Although, the incident sparked changes in the building occupancy codes, fire was not banned and neither were gasoline stations or night clubs. The blame was focused on the man who set out to torch a heavily occupied building in order to kill, at least, one human being because he was angry.

When another country encounters a deadly, or violent, incident that appears symptomatic of social ills, our natural response is to point the finger and criticize their ways so that we can feel superior, or safer, or better. This was very apparent when France encountered recent periods of civil unrest after the deaths of two Muslim minority adolescents subsequent to a police chase. I remember many in the US pointing to France and saying, "This is the result of a failed social experiment." I guess it makes us feel better to stand morally above others and point to how much better we do things.

End the case of the Virginia Tech murders; I blame the young man that shot those 32 people, and then him. In the end, the killer will find his tools for killing be that tool gasoline, ammonium nitrate, or a gun. Man has killed since the beginning of time.

In the end, it is refreshing to see some genuine concern in this matter. Where some of you do everyone a disservice is where you take personal interest in attacking each other here and our respective ways of life. To me, that IS a waste of good bandwidth.

When I first came on to this message board, Josh was all that people spoke about. If some unhappy customer even spoke ill of Josh, he was quickly "dealt" with. In fact, I think some had actual shrines of this guy at home (decorated with reps).

Things have changed quite a bit over the last year; seems different. In the end, the rep business is a money making activity.

To me is a simple matter of common sense.

The watch being serviced is not a selling point for me. Neither is the waterproofing. For one thing, I can't be sure about that even after I receive the watch (except for - maybe - the waterproofing). Then again, I have not had a single one of my reps have a problem with waterproofing with average use (not SCUBA diving, but like swimming in the pool).

Servicing of a watch is something that must be done at some time or another, if one expects their watch to last. Same as that of a car. Like someone pointed out earlier, if I take my car to be serviced by the most expensive and capable mechanic in the country, I cannot expect to charge this forward to the buyer; it is something the buyer buys into if he wants to, I guess. However, if I modify my car and throw in an additional $4000 USD in audio/video and another $1200 in rims, then, I can charge this forward as these are parts that are additional to the car - and they are tangible.

If someone is selling a rep watch that has genuine parts, for instance, then I think it is reasonable that this person will charge that forward.

I recently traded a watch with someone who communicated to me that the rep had been serviced and had a better crytal put in. He also told me that it was waterproofed. Well, the crystal seal was improperly set and the rep leaked while in the shower. Then, the rotor came loose and it sounded like a baby rattle. Luckily, I traded that to a buddy who wanted it for some project. I pointed out the flaws and he found that the crown guards appealed to him, so he went for it. To be fair, the original owner promised to pay for it to be "serviced" again by one of our resident rep experts. This guy got a Swiss 7750 movement watch from me that had never been "serviced", or waterproof tested. He never had issues with it. So, I ask myself, where is the value in buying something that has a claim attached that you can't tangibly proof?

I have 27 reps in my modest collection. With an average price of $250 USD per rep - not counting shipping - it works out to nearly $7,000 USD in reps. With the money I've invested in mods (taking into account that I rounded-up the average price in total), it works out to an approximate amount of $8,000 USD. That's possibly close to two, or more gens (depending on price spread) worth of watches in cost. I also have four gens (Rolex Explorer II, Omega SMP Large, Omega SMP Mid-size, Tissot Le Locle Chronograph). Those gens work-out to about $7,600 in total.

Mishaps with reps:

I have had the bezel fall out of my Omega SMP PO 5th Gen 45mm rep (fixed it myself), a Rolex Daytona rep that just stopped working (fixed by dealer free of charge), my wive's Rolex Yachtmaster rep had only a three hour reserve (fixed by dealer free of charge), my wive's Rolex TT Datejust stopped working (fixed by dealer free of charge), my Panerai 172 stopped working (fixed it myself), and the 12 O'clock marker of my TT 14Kt Yachtmaster fell off (fixed it myself).

So, the end analysis is that none of the gens have given me any problems - ever. But neither have 21 of the reps. And, I actually wear my reps a lot more than I wear my gens (my daily beater is my Rolex "Perfect" Sub). So, although I've had my share of issues with reps, I certainly feel that their quality is not bad for the money. Considering that I have about seven times more options of watches to wear now that I have reps along with gens, I'm glad I have invested in reps.

However, if I had $7,000 USD and I had to purchase something, I would go for gens before purchasing reps. In fact, I purchased my reps after all my gens. Had I done it the other way around, I would have kicked myself for it the moment one of my more expensive reps malfunctioned.

Bottom line for future purchasers: The rep hobby is one that perpetuates itself over time. So, if you think you're only going to purchase one rep, you are most likely wrong. Assuming that this is true, chances are that you will likely end up spending enough money on reps to purchase yourself at least one real nice gen. Therefore, I recommend that if you don't have any such watches yet, SAVE YOUR MONEY until you can buy a gen. Then, purchase reps.

Did the AD notice your replica?

Tim

No, he didn't.

Really! I didn't know because I've never held a gen Yacht Master. But this design is becoming my favorite of the Rolex reps. I thought it should be a little tighter because you can easily move the bezel out of position. A test for me is I rub a single finger along the side of the bezel. I figure that they should have enough resistance so that you cannot easily move the bezel with one finger. The Yacht Master moves easily. None of the others do.

/Tim

Tim, what was mentioned in response to the clicks is absolutely correct. I once thought the same thing you do. I felt that there was no way a Rolex would have that soft a feel on a bezel. Yes, you can move it with one finger as you say. Then, while passing through the airport in the UAE, I stopped to look at some Rolex watches in an AD there. I had my Yachtmaster rep on. Well, they had the gen, so I asked the attendant if he could show the gen Yachtmaster to me. He did and the first thing I checked was the bezel and I rotated it. It has the same gentle click that you mention. I was a bit relieved as I felt I had a faulty bezel on my rep. Not to mention, the rep was so close to the gen in appearance. But, you will not be satisfied until you feel it for yourself in an AD. Go check it out.

I had the same thing happen on the same rep model. Luckily, I was inside my car when it happened, so I was able to recover the bezel (with the tiny pearl) intact. I use Loctite Water Resistant glue. That's what I have used for all my other bezels and it holds great.

It's been removed

Yeah, I know. I reported it to Ebay last night. I imagine I was not the only one from this board that did it either.

I finally got a Sub rep as a base for mods. I used the search button trying to find information about mods with a Rolex bezel and it led me to this thread. What is the deal with "shaving" down a genuine bezel? Is it way thicker than the rep bezel? Thanks in advanced.

Stang,

I think I got your meaning now. Are you saying that dishonest dealers caused a site like this one to be developed where we can pool our knowledge together to remedy the situation? On the one hand, it would be better if all dealers were more like TTK, Angus, Andrew and Josh (to name a few). But, being as things are, I agree that this website is a positive consequence of dishonest dealers.

I would much rather get a very good quality replica than a crummy fake (or nothing at all), even if the description was slightly exaggerated.

Ok. It's your money. But, for the rest of us, we'd like a person to be honest about what they are selling us. As long as I'm not sending a dealer "fake" money, I'd prefer if he keeps it "real" with what he says I'm buying (even if it's a rep). That is such a simple concept that I don't understand why it's so hard to understand.

For you, it's OK to lie about what you are getting as long as they send you something you are personally willing to live with for that exchange. Apparently, that is not the case with the majority of us. Like I said, "It's your money."

I've been tempted with this model. But, I'm also reading way too many QC issues early on with this model. I'm also going to give this model a few months.

Now the only thing i can imagine is if you have arranged some kind of discount... In that case there might be a problem

Actually, we had the opposite situation. The watch, for instance, was actually priced at $950 because Joshua said there were special delivery fees to where I was. I believe him. Also, there was the actual price to the carrier we used.

The sub-total came out to $4,458.00 USD. Then, with the shipping, it came to nearly $4,700 USD. Again, this is a case of my word against his and he holds the proverbial bag on the goods, so I understand the situation. Do I feel "cheated" in a way, certainly. But, it would have taken a high amount of trust for Joshua to send me the watch I thought we bought and I get it.

I have other, more negative theories, but without real proof, it would not be fair for Joshua if I aired them here. Certainly, I'll more careful with him in the future. In the end, I accept what happened as the cost of doing business. There are times when Joshua himself has absorbed lost items (through no fault of his own). In fact, I have an e-mail where I thank him for doing this very thing for us, which he did on a few occassions.

[Edited to add the following]

That being said, I don't know that I will purchase from Joshua again. Before, it was a no-brainer. If I, or any of my friends, were getting a rep, Joshua would be the one to reach out to. But, now, there is a pause in my decision. There are a lot of people here who are realistic and they come off that way. There are others whom believe that they actually "know" a dealer as a person. The fact is that we don't. In the end, good customer relations - in this particular case - result in better "press" on the message board which results in more customers. In the case of Joshua, there was an interesting phenomena at work. When a negative review of him surfaced - especially by a "newbie" - it was either shot down outright, or negated with positive annecdotes on the same. So, Joshua may have felt "untouchable" regarding negative criticism. Sometimes, when you are on top, you stop being "hungry" and slowly slip up on doing all of the things you did to get there. Sooner, or later, someone like Pug comes up with an honest issue (and he did it in a general way - he did not specify any dealer that I can recall) and others surely surface. At that point, if customers see a pattern, they will "vote" with their wallets. Already, six of my friends have purchased reps from other dealers other than Joshua because I won't wholeheartedly endorse him. Before, there was no competition in my mind. This does not make him a bad dealer. It just makes him one among others. In some cases, and with some specific reps, I would recommend Joshua. Difference is that now I would check if someone else has the item as well.

In the future, my opinion might change. Maybe, Joshua would respond positively to this and do something that might change my tune. When a dealer sold me a $600 rep that I never received, I made it known on this board. But, when it came in - nearly six months later - I publicly stated so on one of the threads right here on this board. That dealer will get business from me again. That's how it works for all of us customers.

@ ND........sorry.....but I'm not getting the math here........surely it's quite simple....if you paid him $4700.......it was for a specific number of watches......if one of those watches was meant to be Swiss @ $888...and you got one at $268......well there's $620 adrift somewhere.......somebody must be able to account for it......surley all you do is add up the value of every item you ordered and you must reach a negative balance......no...?

Sounds to me like someone is guilty of a terminological inexactitude.......!

I'll send you the Excel spreadsheet we used to track our buys. In the end, it turned out as I explained before.

ND

21 pages sure takes a long time to go through

This is all starting to make sense... My experience with the ethics in question involves not the standard movements that are generally being discussed here, but the manual wind ETA/Unitas 6497, as well as the sapphire crystal issue. Two dealers, many questions and headaches abound.

I purchased my second Fiddy (the first time it was too big, I wanted to try again and see if I could pull it off) from a trusted dealer on these forums.

It was supposed to have a sapphire crystal. The water and temperature tests failed miserably, and the concensus here was that the crystal was not sapphire, but mineral... Too bad, but the dealer made good and a refund was given. What did sting was the shipping cost to get it to some other unknown customer who probably wouldn't know a sapphire crystal if it smacked him in the face. So far, I'm out $20 or so bucks and my wrist is bare

Anyhoo... I thought I'd try it again, with another dealer that has the same spec watch WITH sapphire, WITH SWISS ETA movement, WITH swan neck and a supposedly much more accurate true to gen case that allows the movement to come out through the front instead of the back (I don't understand the benefit of this design (I surely would design it to come out the back ), but it is toted to be the ultimate).

The second Fiddy arrived, I was bursting with anticipation.

It was very nice, case of high quality, front crystal testing (water, temp) as sapphire, back crystal not coming back as positive, but I was willing to let that go to both trusting the dealer's word and lack of definitive proof not having a diamond tester close at hand.

The movement lookd good too, aftermarket bridgework true engraving instead of stickers, swan neck regulator... the friggin works. I was pretty happy.

I then got out my trusty loupe to look closer at the movement... amazing piece of equipment, these loupes... they turn beauty into ugliness real quick. Looking at the main gearing close to the mainspring, I noticed the gear teeth had some pretty massive burrs on them... Again, I put this aside due to my trust in the dealer and the extreme magnification of the loupe, but I did think it strange. I was still pretty happy knowing that I now have a sapphire crystal AND a Swiss movement with a swan neck regulator and engraved bridges... What else more could I ask for? Well... Super Luminova, of course!

So... I brought the watch to my watchmaker for a refill. I slowly pulled it out of my pocket bursting with anticipation oin his reaction to this perfect rep... He takes it from me quickly dropping his permanently attached loupe to his eye. Looks good, he's inspecting every corner...

He comes back with "Really great quality overall, shame about the copy movement". I should trust my instincts.

No big deal really (well it is if I've been duped), it's keeping great time and all I want is Superlume so this sucker can glow...

Got the watch a few hours later, on my wrist, can't keep my eyes off it... It is beautiful, but surely STILL way too big for me. Unfortunately, not even the most perfect fiddy rep will make me feel comfortable... Glad I didn't buy a gen!

Anyhoo 2... I get back home and right on the email machine... The dealer got back to his supplier and they both came back adamant that it is what it is... Fine, despite the heavy burr, my watchmaker's words, I will trut my dealer to the end...

I wore this watch but a couple of times and just couldn't find the love for it... I'm funny lookin', but I ain't no cartoon! LOL

So I put the watch up for sale... $300 which is $110 less than I paid for it in the first place, hardly worn, special case, yadda yadda, sapphire crystal, swiss swan neck etc etc et all

The watch sold after a while of being on the boards. It didn't go too far, just across the creak to New Zealand...

THEN I get this message from the buyer saying that the movement is NOT swiss and that it has been reviewed by The Zigmeister etc etc...

My heart started racing, my head started spinning... NO NO NO... not this friggin watch again!!! The flurry of emails started between me, the buyer, me, my dealer, my dealer his supplier, back again to me and around and around.

My buyer wanted a partial refund for the incorrect movement, I was asking for SOMETHING solid from my dealer on this movement, the supplier was still adamant it was swiss... Watchonpo just purchased 100 of these movements... They must be swiss. Back and forth around and around

My dealer offered a refund of $35 saying that this small matter shouldn't get in the way of our friendship etc etc... And I agree and decline to take the refund as this is all getting way too difficult for a watch I can not wear and especially one that I do not have any longer.

I also refuse to take the watch back or give a refund to my buyer... I've lost way too much on this experiment to start giving refunds or even spending any more time on this friggin watch.

Now this thread comes up rife with tales of woe (including mine) about fraud and outright deception....

I want to trust my dealer, but putting all this together and seeing that movement in the B&R is quite disheartening...

I'm only gonna buy just a few more reps... then it's gens only for me from then on.

Now seriously... You dealers (you know who you are) who are trying to pull the wool over OUR eyes.. Cut the [censored]in' [censored]... We're smarter than that and we're not gonna take it any more

That sounds a lot like my experience in this story: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...0&hl=Joshua.

Who was the dealer, pray tell?

BTW,

Josh told me yesterday on e-mail that the movement for the "Perfect" Sub he sells is a genuine Swiss ETA movement and not a Chinese copy. Is this the case?