Bansenshukai

Wow, imagine the rotor wasn't loose and you never opened the watch to begin with?? That is unacceptable to me on such an expensive rep....

Did you ever get that resovled?

Well, no. We just agreed to disagree. The watch was bought in an order totalling over $4700 (at first, however, I thought it was an order of $3600 until I saw evidence that it was more). I also have the MTCN numbers for every Western Union payment we sent to him, but, I don't know of a way to find the value of each transaction by the number alone. There were about 15 or 16 reps bought by a bunch of guys (group buy) that I work with. We never thought to open any of them. I found out the price of the first order ($4700) only after I received a copy of the old Excel spreadsheet we used to track all our orders. In it, you clearly see the watch described as a Daytona with a Swiss ETA movement being ordered. In about four e-mails, the watch is mentioned specifically as a Swiss Movement Daytona and not once does Josh ever stop to correct to say "No, you mean the Asian movement Daytona." I shared the e-mails with Josh as well as the Excel spreadsheet. But, really, it was a case of my word against his. And, after all this time and without using actual receipts and so on (the nature of our business in reps), I can't prove him wrong and he can't prove me wrong. Josh's take is that he never sold us a Daytona with a Swiss ETA movement. To this day (and due in no small part to e-mails from that time frame - I save them all), I disagree. But, what the heck. There is nothing I can't do. I'm a little more cautious about dealing with him now. In the end, I can understand his point of of view if he, in fact does not remember and/or does not keep accurate records of this. For all he knows, I could be trying to swindle him out of a more expensive watch than what I actually bought. So, I'm not mad at him. I think I understand. But, I'm going to be more cautious of him in the future. I'll open every watch I get and photograph the movement of any watch I receive that is not what I ordered.

I think the great thing about reps is the fun we find in scrutnizing the smallest details. Trying to find the "best" or "perfect" replication of a fine luxury watch is also an allure. Heck, I own several gens. But, there is no fun in that. The bezel pearl on my gen Omega SMP is as good as it's going to get. As far as quality, like I've written before, I have reps that easily rival the time keeping accuracy of my most expensive gen (a Rolex). So, in the end, I find the rep side to be more entertaining. Also, I have learned so much from you guys about watches.

Is the gen bezel insert smaller than the rep bezel insert, or larger? What was the fit problem? (I realize the bezel itself doesn't fit, and that doesn't surprise me but it does surprise me that the bezel insert didn't fit, especially since the dial was drop-in perfect. What size and generation PO rep do you have?

First Question: Smaller.

Second Question: The OEM bezel insert is not a disk like our rep bezel insert. Instead, it is built into/fused with the bezel itself. It is rather well constructed I must admit. You can grind and sand the bezel insert off from the OEM bezel that it comes with, but you still end up with a OEM bezel that is smaller than the rep. In the case of the 42 mm PO, the OEM bezel does not make it over the crystal. I suspect that the 45mm bezel has similar issues. However, if one is willing to risk about $300 USD on this question, go ahead and let us know the results. I suggest not to do it based on my experience with the 42 mm PO.

Third Question: 42 mm PO. Orange Bezel, 4th Gen from Joshua. Plus, I also have the 45 mm PO "Ultimate" from Joshua (but my OEM bezel experience is with the 42 mm PO.

I went into more detail on another post if you use the search button with my screen name. I'm at work, so I have no time to provide a link right now. Good luck with your mods.

Thanks to the great write-up by By-tor (or Buy-More as he really should be called) I finally pulled the trigger on a PO after smugly sitting on the sidelines while generation after generation of new and improved versions came out. Well, I've got the Ultimate 45.5 mm PO from EL and I have to say, it is indeed a beauty. How much do I like it? Well I got it and the IWC Inge Chrono at the same time a couple of days ago. The Inge chrono is the watch I really wanted, I only got the PO as a kind of "eh, let's get that too" kind of deal. Well, sorry IWG fans but I prefer the PO, a couple of niggling details (the logo is a hair crooked, the diver extension a bit floppy) aside, it's a great watch. The IWC is great too and actually better put together than the PO, but somehow I just like the latter more. I was a little worried about the 45.5mm size but wears smaller than it is. Besides, considering I've got the 187 pulling off the PO is probably not my biggest problem.

But all that's peripheral to my question. A few months back cwai pointed out that you can buy genuine PO bezels on ofrei. This is true enough but can you actually install them on reps? One member said he was doing it but then he never reposted so my guess is he didn't follow through. Does anybody know if it's possible to replace the bezel or bezel insert on a PO with a gen from ofrei? Not that I'm all that inclined to do it but it sure would be nice if I could!

I tried fitting an OEM PO bezel onto a rep PO. It does not work. I posted my results somewhere else on the board. Bottom-line is that the OEM bezel is constructed totally different from the rep and the two are not compatible. My initial try was just exchange bezel inserts - it doesn't work as the inserts are not built the same. Then I tried to put on the entire thing - does not work for the same reason. I say, don't buy it. The OEM hands and, I believe, the OEM dial still fit, however.

Regarding the watches I wrote about in my post above, a strage thing happened. I got my watches back yesterday. It seemed that my Swiss 7750 Daytona was beyond repair so I received a brand new rep of the same model in replacement. I thought "Joshua rocks!". And, he does, exept something weird happened later.

The "new" rep was beginning to make strange noises indicating that the rotor was loose inside. I had this happen to me before with a real cheap Asian Submariner and I found it easy to fix. So, this morning, I open up the case to fix the rotor and find, to my surprise, that my $888 Swiss 7750 Daytona was replaced with a $268 Asian 7750. In other words, the "new" rep I recieved in replacement was a much cheaper version of the same watch I sent for repair. Since I've dealt with Joshua for a while now, I am thinking that this was done by accident as the watches would appear identical externally. But, after waiting nearly a month for this watch, it's a bit disappointing. But, like I said before, I'm sure Joshua will resolve it. I think that as his operation grows with time, other people are involved in the shipping and so on. This might lead to errors here and there; absolutely normal in my opinion.

Go the the dealer forums and look for reviews on "Joshua". He is among the best, if not the best, independent dealer in this business. Joshua owns "Perfect-Clones". To answer your question, I"ve ordered from the site and certainly from Joshua directly and I have always been satisfied with the customer service offered.

I contacted Joshua yesterday via e-mail. I was inquiring about three watches that I sent him for repair after they stopped working properly a few months after I received them from him (Rolex Daytona with Swiss 7750; Ladies Yachtmaster Rolessium and Ladies TT Datejust). As Joshua has always done, he accepted the watches back and had them repaired - a class act.

He responded to my e-mail saying that he had sent me a previous e-mail stating that they were repaired and were inbound to me via registered mail (Joshua has always done this and sends the registered mail number for tracking).

I NEVER received that e-mail he referred to. So, I'm led to believe that the earthquake certainly affected his ability to log-on here as well as his ability to send and receive some e-mails.

But, no fear here; Joshua always comes through. I just told him to resend the information when he got a chance.

Totally agree! I have four reps (Yachtmaster, Omega PO 45mm, Omega PO 42.5mm and Panerai 212) that keep time just as accurate as my gen Rolex Explorer II and gen Omega SMP. I will never spend that much money on a single watch as long as reps like this exist. Terrible isn't it?

both 42 and 45mm are cal 2500 and on ofrei, there is only 1 part number for planet ocean hands.

anyone else thinks only the case is different, I am sure I could through in a replica 42mm movment and dial into the 45mm case.

but just want to know if that is the same for gen.

I have both the 45mm and the 42.5mm reps for that model and after a second look, it seems that the crystals are the same diameter - that surprised me. Following that the dials are the same as the crystal in this characteristic then, yes, I guess the hands would be the same for both. Hope this helps.

By the way, if you ordered from Ofrei, be prepared to wait from six to eight weeks for this part. I got mine from there.

From my experience, Omega sells their watch hands according to the caliber of the movement. I believe that the caliber for the 42.5mm Omega Planet Ocean is 2500 (experts please correct this if I'm in error). The movement for the 45mm is of a different caliber. But, obviously, based on the diameters involved alone, they would have to be longer (the bigger watch requries that the hands "reach" out farther to the second and minute markers from the center of the watch).

I've traveled to Europe, Asia, the Mid-East and South America in the last four years (civilian airline travel). I never take less than one gen and two reps. Never had any issues. My watches travel with me on my carry-on. Obviously, the gen gets to ride on my wrist for the air portion.

Not offensive. By the way ... Merry Christmas to all of you and may God Bless you all and keep you safe.

(That's right ... I said it! - well, wrote it!)

The EMS site sometimes have a few glitches. For instance, your tracking number might come up with the information on your package and then, the next day, it'll say that no information is available. But, the package is still rolling - it's just a software issue.

Joshua is a dealer that stands by his products. I just sent him three watches that malfunctioned since I bought them - a rare occurence with his watches - and he has received them and has his people working on them. Now that's service! Another thing he does that many other dealers don't do is that he does not allow his ego to run away with him. I have not seen him insulting - even while defensive - customers on this forum. I have seen him remain cordial while most would let it get to them. To me this means that he is a dealer that can separate business from personal and shows him as a more stable bloke. I'll always buy from him.

My wife wears the 42.5mm 4th Gen Planet Ocean. She also likes to wear any of my Panerai. She is into big watches. Occassionally, she'd wear the ladies Rolex Datejust - Jubilee Bracelet - two tone, of the Omega Constellation (all steel). The only thing she doesn't like too much are rubber sports watches.

I see the inserts on Ebay, but I can't tell if the pearl is any better than in the reps. Has anybody bought one of these? Or does anybody know of a way to mod or replace the pearl with a more accurate one? Any sources?

A mod I did with my 42mm PO was to remove the rep insert, remove the rep pearl from that insert, drill shallow hole further into the bezel (the part under the insert), then enlarge the hole in the insert for the bezel pearl. Once this was done, I re-glue everything together, but this time, the bezel pearl sat almost flush to the bezel insert instead of sticking out so much. It worked and it looked pretty good.

First on the bezel. The first problem is that the genuine Omega bezel for the PO is smaller than the bezel of the rep. What does this mean? Well, to mod this would be simliar to try to make a dime (ten US cents) fit the size of a nickel (five US cents). There is no way to mod this because 1) Omega does not sell the bezel insert by itself - it sends you the whole thing. Why? Because the insert is fused, not glued, to the bezel itself. It almost seems like a weld. You can separate them by grinding the gen bezel from underneath until you free the bezel insert. But, you have to ruin the bezel itself to do this. Once you have the insert detached, there's the problem of size.

The bezel does not fit around the crystal. If you try to mod it so that it does fit around the crystal (by careful and even grinding of the inside of the bezel insert), the genuine bezel insert would still be too small to sit correctly on the rep bezel (which is meant for a larger rep bezel to fit around it). I welcome you guys to purchase the genuine bezel, but you'll be wasting over $200 USD to find out what I found out.

If you separate the gen bezel insert from its bezel successfully (I was able to), you'll find it won't fit around the crystal (bezel insert too small, crystal is larger than the inside of the bezel insert. If you mod (grind) the inside of the gen insert to make it fit, your are going to add something else that is not like the "gen" PO - the width of the silver ring around the crystal becomes smaller than it's supposed to be (this is the silver "ring" that is "painted", or otherwise present before the orange part on the bezel, if you look from the inside of the bezel insert to the outside). Then,you will be able to sit it on the rep bezel since that is guaranteed to fit over your rep (since it was built for that watch). But, the bezel of the rep is meant for a slightly larger bezel insert. So, imagine the result of puting a smaller insert in a larger bezel - there is a gap not filled at the edges where the surface of the bezel itself is visible; not at all what you probably intend. If you find a way to put the gen bezel on the larger watch, it looks totally stupid plus you have to sacrifice the functionality of the gen bezel because you had to grind it to make it fit over the larger watch and it won't go "click" anymore. I tried all this things. This is specific to the genuine Omega bezel for the Orange 42mm PO. I don't know what happens with what is sold from the internet on Ebay.

My rep is the Omega PO 4th generation I got from Joshua about six months ago. I tell you the truth, the second hand on this rep reaches all the way to the inside of the rehaut (correct term?). I don't see where people think they can possible be larger. Maybe I have something from a different manufacture.

just to add to TripleHD's comments,

Yes, i installed a Genuine dial and hands on another members 4th generation PO and it was fine. Apart from having to make the seconds hand fit more snuggly (due to the hole being too small), I felt that the OEM parts made the watch look better and showed no disproportion.

Ok. Then, apparently, I have a slightly different model of the rep PO. When put side-by-side, the hands of my rep and the gen hands ordered from Ofrei are different in that the gen hands are 1mm smaller (shorter in length) than the rep hands. The color is different as well (the gen hands look nicer - the second tip has a better color) and the lume is obviously better - but, the hands are smaller, not bigger. The gen hands I received came in transparent vials with red plastic tops, and were then packaged inside small plastic "zip-lock" type bags that had Omega stickers on them that said Caliber 2500 and a description of each item. From what I understand, the Caliber 2500 is the movement of the PO (42mm). Would they fit inside my rep? Sure. The fittings match the watch. However, the hands that I have ARE smaller than the ones on my rep. So, if I installed them, it'd be worst, appearance wise, in my opinion. As for the dial, I am only basing that it wouldn't fit because everything else on my rep seems 1mm larger than the parts for the gen. Therefore, I would suspect that the date window would not line-up, for instance. But, you guys seem to have proved that to not be true. Thanks.

Someone recently was kind enough to post all of Ofrei's links to genuine Omega parts (minute, second, hour hand) and bezels and so on, for an Omega Seamaster PO (4th Gen rep). [http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=8428&hl=omega+planet+ocean]

Well, as I have explained already, the genuine bezel will not work out, so don't purchase it. Well, with the gen bezel, I also purchased the genuine hands. The problem (which affects some other gen parts you can buy for this particular model) is that the rep case is exactly 1mm larger than the genuine. So, the genuine hands (for the genuine Omega caliber 2500 movement - used by the PO) are designed for an even smaller watch (even if just by 1mm). So, if you are not happy with the "shorter" appearance of the rep hands as they sit on the rep dial, buying genuine hands will increase your problem as those hands are made to fit a smaller dial face. SO DON'T BUY THE GENUINE BEZEL, THE DIAL, OR THE HANDS. How do I know? I bought the bezel and the hands. Luckily, I did not invest in the dial. I don't want you guys making the same error. As for the post regarding these genuine parts, the author of that did it with the best intentions. I mean, back then ... who knew?

If you're looking at a perfect rep, don't forget the Co-Axial movement beats at 25,200 vph, unlike any of the movements available to us.

However, if you get the AR right, you can get away with the rest of the faults.

Could one of you guys school me on the AR of the crystal? Is this something that, in order to be done, requires that the crystal be removed from the watch? How is this done? Thanks.

Did you buy the whole bezel or just the insert?

To my knowledge, or lack thereoff, Omega does not sell just the bezel insert, they sell the whole thing (bezel insert along with bezel assembly). When I received the item, I understood why: The "insert" is apparently bonded (it seemed to be somehow welded or otherwised "fused" and NOT glued) to the bezel it self. Even if you could pull it off - which is only possible by carefully grinding it off from inside the bezel, thus destroying the bezel itself in the process - the "insert is much thicker than the rep insert.

My advice, for the benefit of the rest of the RWG bunch is DO NOT buy the genuine Omega PO bezel unless, like me, you want to squander about $200 on it. Oh, and by the way, from a lengthy conversation with "Cong" from Ofrei, Omega is clamping down on it's genuine parts sales outside of Authorized Dealers. I received this item eight weeks after ordering. I've posted on my experience on the Omega PO bezel about three times (including this one) in order to prevent you guys from wasting your money as well.

I actually sent the watch back to Ruby and she had the bezel replaced. Unfortuantely the pearl fell off the second time - and of course I didn't notice when it happened so I don't have the pearl. Ruby is sending me a new bezel now, I will replace it myself assuming I figure out how to do it. I have tools, but am a definite novice. I'm chalking this up as a learning experience and am not mad at Ruby really at all. I think I just got a lemon

As for the clasp, I think it is possible to tighten it by bending the metal that holds the divers extension. I also think I can bend the pins that hold the main clasp as well. I am wary as to how to do this, as I don't want to damage it further. Any advice from the pros as to the best way to tighten both? Thanks all.

I just ordered this watch from Joshua. And, I'm sure that if this happens he'd replace it. However, I found from experiments and experiences from a fellow rep afficionado that if you ever mess with a bezel (re-glue any part of it), you must use a glue that is designed to work in moist environments. I have used a certain glue of this type made by Loctite. It takes much longer to set than your usual "superglue" (about one day), but once it sets, you should not have an issue with anything falling off by itself. Other glues will loose effectiveness when exposed to moisture over time (washing hands or showering with watch). Also, the bezel pearl may have been larger in diameter than the hole it sat on and, thus, had less surface area to seat and attach itself when glued there. Can you just have Ruby send you a spare bezel and see what happens? Maybe you could pay for it via PayPal and thus won't have to send your watch away, wait for it to arrive at Ruby's and so on (?).

Can anyone who did this chime in on the quality of the AR? For that price and if good quality, I'd definitely be interested in doing this...

I bought the genuine Omega PO Orange bezel from Ofrei for my 42.5mm rep. The genuine Omega PO bezel DOES NOT fit the rep, I repeat, DOES NOT fit the rep. The bezel is constructed all together different and will not seat on the watch. And, even if was designed exactly as the rep bezel (which it is not), the bezel is exactly 1mm smaller in diameter than the rep, so it DOES NOT fit. I guess that the same is the case for the 45mm. I was able, in the end, to remove the bezel pearl from the genuine Omega bezel and I'm waiting on a spare bezel from Joshua so that I can insert the genuine bezel pearl into the rep bezel. If not, I'll stick with what the rep came with.

You can feel the clicks when you rotate the bezel, but it's definitely soft. Rotates both ways as well.

I wore it around the house for a bit today and it's so loose that it "rattles" just when you are wearing it to do ordinary activities. I'm guessing this is not normal.

Is there any way to remedy this, or does it have to be returned/replaced?

Exactly. They should be soft "clicks" and, yes, bi-directional. But, what you describe here sounds like defective bezel. Have you tried taking it off and checking out what's underneath - the mechanism that makes it click? Maybe it's not on right. I don't know, the experts are all over here. Be sure to ask them before you do anything.

I just received my new Yachtmaster and have a quick question. The bezel seems to be really loose. I don't know much about Rolexes, so I thought I'd check with you guys.

The bezel has a noticeable gap between it and the case. When you press down from the top of the bezel (toward the case), it noticeably compresses and makes a clicking noise. It feels super flimsy. Is this the way it's supposed to look/feel/sound?

For the record, this is a ETA version.

As an aside, does anybody have any direct comparison pictures of the skinny vs. thick date font on these?

Thanks so much.

Savage

Well, I got mine from Joshua a while back and I have the same type of bezel effect (weak bezel). But, I don't have any gap between the bezel and case like you describe. It's just that the bezel does not "click" - when turned - like an Omega PO, or a Sub rep. Mine is also an ETA version and, along with my Omega PO, it keeps time with my genuine Omega SMP and genuine Rolex Explorer II (and that pisses me off since I spent thousands of dollars on the later and they are as accurate as the former - which is damn accurate I must say). Since you perked my curiosity, I'm going to the nearby AD and will test the bezel clicks on their genuine Yachtmaster.

Trust me. I have been through hell and back and now that I am back, I am no better than before.

And, to top it all off, I just read that this site is also "corrupt"!