Brian

It wasn't too awful long ago while reading thru some posts, I happened to catch someone's av of a topless chick with really really big [censored]. No, didn't offend me, actually didn't do a thing for me either . . . didn't think she was all that cute anyway. It did kind of suprise me to see that for an avatar though, but saw it again on another posts & just figured things must be a LOT more laid back here than at the old RWG. Didn't get a chance to see flavor flav's but that's not gonna ruin my nite either. When ever a group of people get together there's always going to be the chance of someone doing or saying something someone else is going to be offended by. I know the problems the net can cause in the workplace. I've written and helped write internet policies for companies before, and hopefully, will get paid to do it some more. In the workplace one of the main goals of the company internet policy is to cover their own asses . . . from lawsuits from employees . . . who are offended by something a co-worker emailed, received in an email, or has up on their screen. There are a lot of companies who let their employees use the company internet connection during breaks, lunch, before/after hours, or even in between their normal work chores. It's the employee's responsibility to stay within the company guidelines while on the net at work. In that light, if you are worried about something coming up on your computer at work that might get you in trouble, stay away from it. If you think some of these avatars will cause problems at work, take the extra few seconds to go into your controls and block the avatars. If you are offended by some of the avatars when you're at home, same thing, take the extra few seconds to go & block them. Firefox is also a good idea, and it will keep you out of a lot of problems on the net because most all things infernal are aimed at IE. Don't know if Opera has those features too, but it's also a good choice over IE. If one particular avatar is that so extremely offensive to you, PM or email that person, and politely let them know how/why it bothers you that terribly much. Most everyone here I would think would take your views into consideration, and would probably change it. Somehow I don't think a masturbating babe avatar would be something someone would want to hang onto for their whole RWG2 existance anyway. The moderators and Admins have enough to do without getting involved in policing avatars . . . they have watches to buy too !!

B

Not yet, but am looking forward to the get together on the 16 in Cleveland.

B

The SCAM I'm talking about (and I think many others are also) is where the LIES of the seller X HIDES that the price offered by seller X is well in excess of its MARKET value, not some hypothetical "TRUE" value (which some people seem to be stuck on). That's why a $900 faulex is a scam, because the IDENTICAL item is available elsewhere on the open market for $50 and the dealer is DECEIVING you that it is some special rep worth $900. The $12,000 motorcycle or $3 coffee is not this type of scam because that price is, whether you personally think people are stupid to pay it or not, the FAIR MARKET PRICE as understood by the pool of informed buyers of that SPECIFIC product based on CORRECT information. If the seller doesn't have to LIE to his buyers about the fact HE is personally massively overcharging THEM, it's not this type of scam.

People say that there is no market price for illegal items. That's [censored]. "Market" doesn't mean legal, it just means there's a pool of buyers. There's a market price for anything for which there is a significant market, legal or illegal. You may not have recourse if you get scammed buying an illegal good but that doesn't mean that there isn't a generally acceptable price for it. So yes, there are "honest" and "dishonest" sellers of even illegal goods. The illegality of the good and the ethicality of the business practices of the seller are not the same thing. One may reflect on the other, but they are not identical concepts.

THANK YOU !!

If I may pull a piece of your quote outta your context and use it to my advantage to clarify my point . . .

I feel that the website mentioned at the start of this thread is run by a bunch of ripoffs and scammers. I mentioned that "ANY company that targets the uninformed & uneducated with an inferior product at a vastly inflated price IS scamming people and IS ripping them off." The reason I felt this way about that particular website is because as one of the members here, or members at any of the other three boards know that THEY would now know never to pay such a ridiculously high price for a not to good at all rep watch from a company that also misleads people in their descriptions of their reps. The members of these forums I would think . . . we make up the group who knows what the "fair market price" is because we are the pool of informed buyers of that SPECIFIC product based on CORRECT information.

Late night, driving home I stop in at a convenience store and get a Coke from the fountain and pay $1.50 for it even though I know I can go to Giant Beagle and get a 2 liter bottle for 99¢. Do I think they are ripping me off ?? Yea, kinda . . . I'm informed enough to know that they are charging WAY too much for that drink, but I also know I'm paying for the convenience of walking in there, any time day or night and walk out with a cold drink, and if I really want that drink, I'll pay the premium for it. Next day, I go in to Giant Beagle for some burgers, chips & dip for a cookout, remember I need some Coke, go down the isle, and now they have it marked up to $5.50. The clerk says that if the convenience store charge $1.50 for so little, this is actually a good deal because it's still costing you less than the convenience store charges. Again, being an informed buyer of that product, I DO NOT buy it because I know they are scamming me and trying to rip me off, because the other grocery stores in the area have been and still are still selling it for 99¢.

I see no convenience or special service that website can offer that can justify that BS price. They are ripping people blind . . . period.

B

B

Michael,

I REALLY didn't hope you were that naive, OR that DDFNS . . .

but to defend anyone who would blatently rip the un-informed & un-educated that way just set me off . . .

I really do apologize for calling you the things I did . . .

really . . .

"When I said they were no different than rolex, it wasn't exactly what I meant with that comment, there was a point I was trying to make, but it wasn't quite put into context how I planned, if that makes any sense"

Thank the god I believe in I've never done that . . .

8^)

I think I over reacted to what you said . . .

no, I don't have a doubt . . . I did . . .

But for someone who's been here . . . or rwg1 for more than a day . . . if the stupid site was up for that long . . . ooops . . . sorry blade . . . if you are a real entity . . .

oh, just BTW . . .

NOT in to those WAY over sized Paner . . . whatever . . . Klocks . . .

to me you seemed to take an opinion about business . . . not just reps, but business in general that just hit me the wrong way . . . the absolutely wrong way . . . because I've never in my life treated or taken any business position that I didn't feel totally honorable in selling/promoting what ever goods/products/service I was working with at the time, and feel that I could sleep comfortably at nite after doing it.

I still feel & think & know . . .

that website is doing its best to try & scam people & rip them off for what ever they can get before they're chased off the Net . . .

and take the money & run . . .

and I strongly suspect you really do to.

sorry about jumpin on you for it . . . wrong time/place/frame of mind/bad day/week/month /year/couple yerars . . .

I've seen Tooooo many people make WAY too much $$$$ in spite of themselves, not because of themselves . . .

don't know what else to say . . .

'cept I hope those people at that site . . .

die spitting blood in pain and agony and live long enough to see everything they gained from it wither and die

right before they do.

B

I like the tan.

It makes the watch stand out more & shows off the black PVD better.

B

Good that you're back AND safely & hope you had a good relaxing 4th too . . .

but . . . I gotta ask . . .

What do you do that gets you "out in the woods chasing bears (literally) for 4 days"

Are you a Forest/Park Ranger?

B

I was just thinking that Brian could be our new Klink

Ken

Yea, I could see ME in the Army . . .

You want ME to do WHAT ????

Yea, right . . . you gotta be outta your FN mind you idiot.

I'd make colonel in no time at all!

8^)

B

You know if he really is like god and sends you to somewhere like hell you'll be sorry you said that.

Yea, maybe . . . but at least I'll have all my friends around to talk to . . .

Sorry about the . . . takin off on him like that . . . but . . .

There's a helluva lotta difference in one of our dealers saying it's a 1:1 rep and those clowns with their $1000 LV. We all know our dealers mean it's a very accurate, better than they've had before watch. Plus with what we've (hopefully) learned from the time we spend at these forums, the dealers KNOW that watch is going to be picked apart by the knowledgeable people on the boards no matter what they call it.

If that website was so on the up & up, how come they haven't tried to list their wares here, TRC, RWI & WT ??

I can think of a reason why they haven't . . .

BECAUSE THEY'RE SCAMMERS AND A RIP OFF !!!!

Hewho . . . if you can't honestly see that, then I really do think you are totally wasting your time even bothering with these forums, because nothing is sinking in. And I don't just mean about rep watches. ANY company that targets the uninformed & uneducated with an inferior product at a vastly inflated price IS scamming people and IS ripping them off. Who the hell do they think they are ?? Big Oil ??

B

What colour is the sky in your world?

Seriously, if you can't see the difference, I don't see how any amount of debate will change your mind.

I said it's a scam, you said otherwise. Several members and an admin agreed with me, you tried a different tack, ignoring the points I made.

There's no way anyone is going to come out of this looking clever, so I'll leave you and your sour business practices on your own here before you drag me down to your level and beat me with experience.

ps. It's still a scam.

/me runs away. ner ner ner.

Hey Mikey . . . .

you have NO idea what that name means to me . . .

serious question here . . .

???????

are you REALLY that dropdeadthatFiretrUCKinstupid or what ?????

Those . . .

business

people are

RIPPING the sheep & lemmings of MY world off B L I N D !!!!!!

and . . . even though I will stomp an ant or [censored]-a tee-roach into oblivion without a second thought . . .

are you REALLY that FN stupid ?????

you even DARE to say that's just business ??????

or are you just trying to up your post count . . .

or knees down & blow me asswipe . . .

or tell your wife/momma/girlfriend/[censored]/hooker . . .

ANYBODY WHO BUYS FROM THEM IS GETTING RIPPED

who do you REALLY work for ?????

cause you are either a drop dead stupid idiot . . .

or you work for Cheney/Bush or some other mega $$$$$$$$$$$$$ other someone Big Oil to even think like that . . . why don't you jack gas prices up another ½ a buck????

or are you a majority stockholder who doesn't give half a rat's . . . .

or . . .

maybe you REALLY are that FN drop dead stupid

8^(

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

ASSWIPE . . .

you are dealing in ILLEGAL goods here . . .

stuff that is protected by copywrite by most ALL nations that have half a clue what that means . . .

If YOU are CLUELESS . . . and THAT FN CLUELESS . . .

Then take a hike . . .

get lost . . . getthe[censored]outta here . . . go back to your local Wallmart & get the goddam best Timex that you REALLY like . . .

Even BLADE would have kicked your sorry dumb ass outta here . . . .

Thick as a plank . . .

sorry JT . . .

Edit

PS . . . NOT you Pug . . . took it from a different post . . .

what a FN idiot . . .

totally clueless . . .

B

... apart from the lies and deception?

Come on, it's a scam. It's precisely the kind of thing this website is here to inform against. Leeching off gullible people isn't an honourable business idea: It stinks and you know it.

EXACTLY Pug!

That place IS a rip off.

GREAT looking LV, huh?

I like the bands too . . .

"440 Stainless Steel Platinum band and case."

And how come OUR reps don't have

" Screwed Triplock crown, self winding"

Never saw any of my crowns self wind . . .

And our reps don't have.

" Second and lettering in red accent color"

And that beautiful LV is ONLY $1000 . . .

and the "solid" 18k models are cheaper ???

yea, right . . .

That is EXACTLY one of the kinds of sites that this forum tries to educate the members about. They ARE ripping people off with their pricing, preying on unknowledgeable and gullible people who think they are getting something that they are NOT going to get. They are NOT getting a rep watch that is worth anywhere near what they are paying for, it's a real POS rep, and that is a scam and a rip period. If they were selling that crap for a third of what they are, it's STILL a rip!

B

Geeeeze . . .

somebody got their work done early this past Friday . . .

Cool post and GREAT pics!!

Thoroughly enjoyed looking thru them.

B

Look thru the reviews and you'll find that the dealers here all carry very good rep DDs & DJs. I know PT had some solid 14k TTs before in those models, and thought I remember a couple others had the solid 14k too. The reviews might help you there, and then you can always email those dealers and tell them what you're looking for. In the SS, you can go to just about all the dealers and get a very good rep in those models with an ETA in them. Jay & Angel @ silix-prime have a bunch of SS with ETAs in them and are selling them pretty cheap, and they also have the boxes to go with them for another $30/35. They are very good people and easy to deal with. Give them a bit to reply to your emails, and be patient getting their website to load . . . takes forever . . .in fact tonight it's timed out a couple times for me, but it's worth the wait. You can also get them thru their silixwatch site, but that one has their cheapies mostly with the Asian movements, but you can email them & tell them what you're looking for.

Good Luck,

B

The best Sub ??

The Sandwich Factory on Market St.

very creative mind to think of that . . .

or REALLY stoned!

But I like it.

B

Sorry should clarify. People post reviews on HIS site as well, not just this site. On his personal site www.aspire........ he can delete what he wants.

Yea, he sure can, thanks Cray. I saw the site a while back, and the selection looked really good, but it was also about the time when a number of people at RWG1 seemed to be having problems with who ever was running the site/shipping the orders. The posts weren't exactly the kind that would make a person go & jump on the site and start ordering from them. A number of people were getting dead watches, and weren't making any headway in getting the issue resolved, and a couple posts from people who seemed to be really getting jerked around, so I never really considered buying anything from them. On the other side, there were also a bunch of people who had gotten good service and good prices and a perfectly smooth transaction.

It must have been over at RWI, but I read a post about Paul's ultimate Sub that's suppose to compare to PT's, but the review was basically it was a much cheaper looking/feeling watch, and the person was pretty disappointed with it, even with the cheapo price. Felt it compared to a Canal Street rep, and they got rid of it the same day they got it.

And in fairness, a review of Paul's LV . . . right here on RWG !!

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=7222

This person thought it was a really good watch at a great price too.

OK, just saw your next post and the link to Slay's review . . . that's the one I just mentioned about too . . . and pretty much agree you do get what you pay for . . . but . . . Silix-prime . . . Angel & Jay have good solid products with excellent service, and back up their products as good as any dealer here . . . and sell at a REALLY good price . . .

B

Brian,

Dealers can not delete reviews here... I think he was talking about paul deleting reviews on the aspire web site. I mean hell, if any dealer would like to delete topics it would be TTK

I've not really responded to any Paul threads, but I will throw this tidbit in for consideration...... I've never had any problem from Aspire/paul. Some of the best deals, highest quality watches I have are from there... Most if not all the bad publicity about paul stems from the crazy sale. Don't know this to be a fact, but I'm not aware of anyone actually being ripped off from the crazy sale, but I do know that it took months for some to recieve either a refund or a watch..

OK, I really didn't think that you all would let a dealer do that here, but the way it came across to me in that post had me wondering . . .

I never bothered to check it out, but also read in some threads about the watches for praises he was said to be doing. But, I would also hope that even the sheep & lemmings of this world wouldn't be swayed by glossy praises on a website run by the company that is selling you their product.

8^) . . . and TTK delete a topic ?? I'd bet he looks forward to 'em . . . probably even instigates a few just to keep things lively around here. I love it when he gets rolling on some poor fool who goes to take him on. Hell, he jumped right into Maria's face & Luckyyy's in that one thread over at TRC about the Subs . . . I KNOW he wouldn't back off on just some poor mortal soul.

B

Buy it from Paul and move on, or possibly collect it from him for free as payment for pimping his watches (and write him a nice review, he deletes all the bad ones)!

OK . . .

Obviously I'm missing something here . . .

How can ANY dealer just delete a bad or even a not so great review from a member here??

I realize that the vast majority of reviews I've read, both @ RWG1 & here during the last year have generally been good, but I know I've also read some not-so-good reviews too. And especially about Aspire . . . won't say Paul, because at the time, if I remember right, people weren't sure it really was him running Aspire then.

I didn't know that the dealers had Mod's or Admin's permissions and would be able to do something like that. It kinda defeats the whole purpose of the Dealer Review section, doesn't it ??

B

I value the dealers that I have found and the way they have treated me on numerous transactions. The price they charge is the price they charge. I can either decide to buy it from them or look somewhere else---pricing is their decision---buying is mine. I really hope most of my fellow board members feel likewise. All the best, Dr. Gary

That sounds reasonable and accurate enough.

Actually though, when I read your heading to this thread, I wasn't even expecting anything about price. I thought it would be more about the way they do business, and what we've been so lucky to expect from them.

AND all those other peripherals that we like so much have a price. Things like swift delivery, fast informative communications, standing firmly behind the product, etc. etc.---they all have a price.

This part, and I agree, that has its price, or more exactly, its value to us. We're lucky enough to have a great group of dealers here who want our business, and are willing to go the extra mile for us to keep it. I'm sure they know a good thing when they see it . . . a "captive" audience that loves their products and will be repeat buyers for a good time to come. They're also good smart business people and deliver exellent service to keep us as customers. I've had nothing but good experiences with the dealers I've used here, and price was only a small part of my consideration to purchase.

Oh, but if they wanted to lower their prices . . . I really wouldn't complain a bit . . .

8^)

B

"none of my business" is all fine and dandy until someone lists a SS breitling chrono avenger with quartz movement and wrong subdials for the same price as an accurate automatic Ti chrono avenger... It happened not too long ago and the price was changed when members called the guy out...

Point is, we should make some effort to make sure that newbs are not getting suckered into crazy deals because they have a false sense of security that comes from being on a forum that advertises itself as helping people avoid rip-offs....and if that means calling people out in their offer threads, then so be it...

On something blatantly obvious like that situation, I've got no problem with. A newb posted that ??

I was referring more to someone selling a current, or earlier model for what they paid for it, or paid for with shipping. Getting back what they have in to it. That's their choice, and if someone wants to pay that, so be it. I really don't feel sorry for them or that they were "taken" on the deal. There may be newer models out now that are better . . . and maybe they're just newer models with their own new flaws, but at the time that they came out, a bunch of members purchased that rep, feeling like we were being charged a fair price by our dealers. You can't really come out and say that it's not worth the price, because it was. That's where the "homework" part comes in too. While no one here wants anyone to get scammed, I think most would like to have educated members and learning to be a bit educated members then a bunch of sheep everyone else has to watch over.

But that's just my opinion . . . I could be wrong . . .

B

I think when something is overpriced and inferior model the seller should be called out in a nice way (maybe first from a PM)

We are here to protect the people who don't know, so we don't want to let them overpay.

. . . But there gotta be something we can do...

maybe a sticky with all the watches & their price range.

. . . I do think people are entitled voice their opinions. Maybe when we see something that the seller is trying to rip newbies off,

paste a link to the website where it is being sold right now with the price on it.

Hmmmmmmm . . . .

Unless they expect people to offer less than what ever they price it at, and are willing to deal a bit, even if it's just to get the price down to what they would have taken for it in the first place.

Special, Unique, or Rare items aside,.. most people are spending more

than they should simply do to lack of homework,...or misleading sales

or dealer posts.

They are too busy or lazy to to some comparison shopping, fall for the customs

ruse, when most dealers guarantee delivery and last but not least believe

negative dealer hype.

THAT'S IT !!!!

And before you start barking at me, no, I don't want to see anybody ripped off either, but this is just a ½ step away from the dumbass question, "Who has the best Sub?"

AND it takes even less effort to find the answer to see if YOU would be paying too much for the watch! There's even a DEALER'S section here at RWG2, no one even has to search through bunches & bunches of posts to find the dealers' sites like RWG1.. AND how many of the dealers even have LINKS to their websites in their dealer section?

I haven't looked, but I seriously doubt that anyone is making a good second income selling their watches in the member's watch zone, and I doubt that anyone is actually getting ripped off either. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but before I lay out a couple hundred bucks or more for something that's not brand new from a store, website, or replica watch dealer . . . actually, even if it is . . . I like to know about the product, and I really like to know what it's worth new. Then, I can make a responsible decision, or do a post asking, "What do you think a used/older model ____ rep is worth??"

There's more than enough information here for people to research, and actually learn some things. If they still feel _____ used rep watch is worth that price, buy it.

If not . . . don't!

B

They say the same thing about pot, which is why I only buy bags clearly marked, "Grown in the U.S.A."

What a crock of $#!+

So now it's our patriotic duty to only buy genuine Rollies . . . made in Switzerland ????

B

ooops . . . .

see RWI post . . .

B

Wow . . . if I had a nickel for every scam email I've gotten and sent to PP or the bay . . .

I'd have about 15¢ !

A day . . .

Probably sent a couple hundred, seriously, to the two. First, they all come in to a generic addy I use, so I know right away. Also if you mouse over their links and look at the address bar, you can tell right away. Plus, like what's been mentioned before, neither will EVER send you an official email from them with a login link on it.

If you get a scam letter from "either" forward it as inline text with full headers. You'll get two auto-replies from both. The first will thank you, say they are looking in to it, and have a bunch of stuff about their policies about their official emails. The second will thank you again, tell you they checked it out and it's NOT from them, they are pursuing the matter and are contacting the ISP to shut the link down, and some more stuff about phishing scams. Strange you didn't get a reply though. I've gotten the first before I've even finished checking my "Trash Bin" for misplaced emails in that Yahoo account.

B

Brian, I did but i'm still waiting for their reply. They told me they'll try to find em but since then i didn't get any other message so i reckon they can't source that watch.

If its been a week or so, send them off another E and ask if they had any luck in finding it for you. They're really nice people, interesting too, and definitely will try & find what you're looking for. I know they have several different businesses and get caught up in the usual rush. They also usually take the weekends off. They're not going to mind a pleasantly worded follow up email from you at all.

B

Hey buckeye,

Haven't had any dealings with him personally, but he's done a ton of business over at RWI. Ever since he got himself set up properly with a place for pics and his dealer section up & running, I've never read anything but good comments about him. I know he was away for a week or so a bit ago, and a couple people were asking about him replying and a couple about their orders, but all were taken care of when he got back.

By a "few weeks" do you mean two? I'd give it a bit yet on actually getting the watches, and I've never had any luck at all with the tracking . . . other than it telling me the package was on its way in the US AFTER I already got it.

You might want to take a look over at RWI. I thought I remember people saying they were "talking" to him on MSN Messenger too.

B

4 to 7K can sure buy one helluva rep collection . . .

If yours has a gen dial already, I think for a bit less than even the 4K you can finish modding it out with a gen crown, & bezel in 18k & a gen TT bracelet. I wouldn't think the case would be that far off to be noticeable. I know Ubi's Daytona project is basically a gen watch with a different high quality movement, but I don't see what would be the benefit of him going out and getting a true gen. If you really want a genuine somewatch, I'd keep my eyes out for a rare to fairly rare vintage something in near mint condition. That would give you the best of both worlds . . . a quality genuine watch in great shape, and something you're probably not going to see on somebody else unless you're at a high end vintage watch convention.

And you still might have enough left over for a handful of reps that you like too.

B