RickFlorida

I had to get a better 5513 case so I got the midcase from MQ in Vietnam and am using a Helenarou 5513 caseback.  So hopefully the caseback is like gen and a 5513 caseback gasket will work for me.  I'll update once I test it with my water pressure device.  One  method I discovered is you can measure the OD of where the gasket goes, and then order gaskets that are smaller and then you can gently stretch the gaskets to fit tightly so that it stays in place when you screw it on.   It seems like photos of genuine casebacks with the gasket still in them seem to always show the gasket sitting snugly and perfectly in the groove.   Is that because it's already been squished in there or is it because the groove in genuine casebacks are actually rounded and not flat so the O ring stays in place?    

I recently purchased a 5513 replacement case from Vietnam (MQ) and I can say that it's a very good deal in my opinion.   I only purchased the midcase since it was all I needed so the price was good considering you have no choice now.  (Cartel cases are no longer spec. for fitting crystals).

The best part of paying for a 5513 replacement case from MQ or other high end case makers, is that you can either use an ETA adapter ring from Yuki or put a real 1520 rolex movement in them when you get the funds.

I got tired of fighting with the Cartel case and just paid for an MQ 5513 case and I love it so far.  The quality is amazing.  They even put the small cut out where the rolex movement screws slide in.  It's just like the real case as far as I can tell.

On 4/16/2019 at 3:04 PM, capre said:

 

So the cases are 3d printed in SS?

 

I doubt it but maybe it's possible.  Normally, 3D printed items that end up in metal are first material jet printed in castable resin or castable wax, and then the model is cast in the final metal.  However, there are one or two types of printers that create stainless steel directly.  But...... as far as I know...... Material Jetting type 3D printers have the absolute best resolution.  I make my jewelry designs using services that print my models with material jetting machines and they they cast it for me or they send me the model and I cast it in my garage.

I realized it might only be in USA that old broken manual expresso machines like Pavoni's are 600 dollars.  In Europe, they are probably easy to find much cheaper and then fix them. It's a unique problem we have with the hipsters driving up prices of old things.

Just now, RickFlorida said:

 

Thank you and great advice.  Automatico pointed out that they often charge more for black colored datewheels as opposed to white.  

Hello everyone,

I was thinking of buying a SeaGull 2130 for a build which is a 2824-2 clone.   Does anyone know if there are two different grades or versions?  The reason I ask is because on Ebay, I noticed that out of all of the many listings for them, they are all either 90 dollars or they are 61 dollars.    Why the 30 dollar difference on so many listings?  Are there 2 different grades of the SeaGull 2130 or do you guys think the 61 dollar listings might be fake SeaGull and actually a cheaper copy?

Thanks for any input.

I can confirm Helenarou has casebacks right now.  I just got one shipped to be for around 50 bucks.   I'm hoping that fixes my 5513 cartel case threading problem.

After 50 plus years of rolex using those 30.9mm diameter threads... did watch makers not develop a threadchasing tool to clean up and realign the threads?

On 3/24/2019 at 12:53 PM, automatico said:

"Do you know if a Tudor sub caseback will fit a 5513 case? I’ve seen some of those here and there."

 

I do not know for sure but the older tudor subs looked like rolex cases of the same era. 

Had a genuine toot no date sub a few years ago with rolex signed folded oyster bracelet but I gave it away.

...gave it away!  (3-17-01)

 

 

7928 Tudor Subs actually used the same exact 5513 Sub cases so yes, same 30.9mm threading.     The good old days when Subs only cast 200 bucks or maybe 1000 dollars in today's money.   

I bought a new caseback so once I get that in my hands, I will see if that does the trick.    After 50 plus years of the 30.9mm diameter case thread production, I'm betting that a "threadchaser" was made for watchmakers to clean up (re-align the threads) of  cases.

Am I correct about this?     When you look up metric thread sizes, I only see a 31.5mm thread.   So 30.9mm threads on rolex cases might be a Swiss specific watch thread or perhaps French like the lignes?

My build is fighting me all the way to the finish. Now that I have my RoloJack shaped cartel 5513 case all shaped and ready for me to do some final assembly, my case and caseback threads need repair.   

What is the thread/pitch of the midcase and caseback on Joshua/Cartel 5513's?  It's from 2 or 3 years ago.   Even if my case was not shaped by RoloJack I can't just buy a new Cartel 5513 Case because I heard they no longer have genuine specs.

Is the Cartel Case threaded the same as Rolex 5513 but even if it is, I don't know what that thread/pitch is or how to fix it.

Does anyone machine fix these?

Thanks

That is worth it to pay just 25 more for custom color.  I didn't know that it was only 25 more dollars and an option.  He does the hands too?

Thanks, it's great to be back!  Now that I actually have information to give back, I feel more at home.

Hello everyone.  It's been a long time and now that I'm finally going to finish my project the way I really always wanted it....I wanted to give back and offer some information on how I fixed the green/modern color lume of the Helenarou 5513 dial.   I received so much help and support here so it's time I help someone else.

The Helenarou 5513 dial is a great dial but it comes with greenish, modern lume color.  Someone on another thread said water color marker might be a good way to add vintage color to lume.   I gave it a shot and purchased Artist's Loft branded water color markers.  The color is "Golden Ochre" and you need a "Colorless Blender" which helps you lighten the color if it goes too dark.  You simply start with the golden ochre, and if it's too dark, use the colorless blender.  When you are happy and all of the indicators look good, you use a light coating of matte lacquer spray.  Best yet, the lume still glows brightly which I guess it shouldn't if it's supposed to be very old lume but who cares.

Artist Loft water color markers are found in Michael's Art stores in the U.S.  The yellow color don't work, only the golden ochre works correctly for this.  If you want less brown and more yellow, just use the colorless blender more and it will look more yellow.

Does anyone know what the best microfiber cloth is for acrylic watch crystals?   I once got a watchmaker to say they use a "special one that they wash and dry without fabric softener".   But I couldn't get them to say what brand.   

I'm still striving to find a way to make an acrylic crystal sparkling clean.  I'm guessing there are multiple premium microfiber cloths that are OK to use.  I see one on Esslinger.com that is probably fine but does anyone have experience getting an acrylic crystal absolutely shiny clean?

Thanks,

LOL,  I think it's great.

Good info all around, gents!

On 9/22/2018 at 10:10 AM, horologist said:

Definitely great advice from all those who responded!

 

Are you confident with a watchmakers lathe?  The other possibility is that you can fill in that section completely to make it as flush as possible to even out the step section. Then you can use a seal of any thickness you like provided that the mid case does not have he same issue! The old submariner cases had no groove (from what I remember) to seat the gaskets so I cannot see how this would not work.  

 

Check out the following product. https://www.jbweld.com/products/steelstik-epoxy-putty-stick.  This product is the best invention for me since sliced bread as it keeps me sane especially that I can use it on stainless steel-- one of  my worst enemy! LOL!!

 

i used this to fill in the gasket groove of a heavily pitted case and then evened it out by smoothing it flush with the surface to have a uniform groove so that the seal would sit in nicely!  Let us know how you go? Good luck!

Hi there.

Great information.  Actually, I did have to use a lathe to completely remove the front of midcase caseneck where the crystal fits over because it was too small.  I'm in the painstaking process of creating a new 'caseneck' and then will have to solder it on or have it laser welded.   As for the back of the case, I'll just try fit a good gasket.  But I like your idea of JB Weld.  For me, I'd rather make repairs with stainless steel as I have a lot of torch and solder equipment as well as skills from making jewelry.

Thanks for the JB weld idea but I don't know how it would hold up in saltwater, chlorine, and humidity over time but it does sound very tough.  900 PSI tensile strength and it has steel in the epoxy.   In my experience, very few epoxies can hold up to Florida conditions at the beach which is where I'm at 20% of every day.

Great information, Timelord.  Thanks for sharing.   At this point, I'm going with the 1mm thick cross section and will try those 2 or 3 different inner diameters.  I will just use silicone grease for watches and then simply use my water/pressure testing device to test for leaks up to 6 or 8 bar.  thanks for sharing how you did yours.

update:

It seems the thickest gaskets you see for sale are 1mm.   The groove appears to be 1.2mm but a 1 mm gasket should work because it will "fill" it up as it compresses.  It seems the best place to order precise gaskets and choices is Esslinger.com

They have a 32.5mm inside diamter gasket 1mm thick and a 32.75mm gasket at 1mm thick.   I might even order the 33mm gasket as well and then I will just try all three.   Overall the main problem is just the flimsy .60mm thick gaskets they ship with the Cartel case.  Those don't work, you probably need at least .90 to 1mm thick.    While we are on the subject, does anyone know if the cartel casebacks use the same exact threading as an original 5513?  In other words, will original or aftermarket 5513 casebacks screw onto the cartel midcase?

Has anyone found 1.1 or 1.2mm thick gaskets for sale?

7 hours ago, MRWOZZA70 said:

A wealth of sage advice and information here as usual [thanks] and could I ask one question about case back gasket too...

I imagine that the groove [apologies if my terms are incorrect] that the gasket sits in dictates the correct gasket shape unless you are replacing gen with omega spec. So if the groove is cut square would a flat/square gasket work best... and same for a rounded groove?? Or does it not matter so long as it creates the right seal?

Excellent question because I just saw this rectangular shaped gasket on a website.     But I don't think anyone uses those anymore.  It looks like I have my answer (in a way) from the majority of current photos of casebacks.  For the majority of photos, it looks like people use fairly thick round gaskets that fill the entire groove up.  They are round and got to be at least 1mm thick based on these photos.   .80 is too small from what I'm seeing.   

33 minutes ago, earloflondon said:

I bought from cousinsuk this particular one. A pack of five for three quids

Rolex Gen. Bezel/Back O-Ring Gasket (29.325.10) C8412

This is on the gaskets list for this particular case. I don't know if it'll work. But what the heck. It's cheapo and worth trying.

Sent from my Lenovo K53a48 using Tapatalk
 

True, but good luck.   I'm not confident the case back has the same groove dimensions that a genuine 5513 caseback does.  It's possible, since they did make the case neck  28.2mm, but I think they only did that so the dial is the same diameter as original.   They probably didn't care what the exact gasket groove size or placement was.  I will be extremely surprised if its' the same.

What you are saying makes sense, thank you!   It appears I need to try a 33 mm because you are right that the 32 wants to crawl away.    What i might do is order slightly different thicknesses of 33mm.

Anyone know the cartel cases very well and know which gasket they like best?  Of course, there could be variations on these so who knows.

Hello everyone.   The simplest build steps for projects seem to always be the most difficult for me, LOL.   (Like how to get a perfectly clean acrylic crystal when assembling).  Now it's finding/fitting a proper fitting gasket.

I'm building a 5513 with a RoloJack shaped newer Cartel 5513 case.  Does anyone know what size gasket fits best in the groove of these casebacks so that it stays in the groove?  I have a nicely working waterproofing/pressure tester that goes to 8 Bar so I'm wanting to seal this case up decently.   The inside diameter for where I think the gasket should go is around 33mm.  I'm guessing the thickness of the gasket should be between .80 and 1mm?  Generally speaking, I think some people would order an inside diameter that is 1 mm smaller than the inside diameter to stretch the gasket into the groove.  However, this is not really a good strategy here because there is a small "step-up" that a tight gasket would hit and then not be in the lower groove.  I found a .80 thick gasket that is supposed to be 32mm and it almost works but not quite. 

Would a thicker gasket, like 1mm thick, hold it's shape better to stay in the groove?  I'm thinking the thinner gaskets just go all over the place and don't stay in the groove.  I'm thinking the gasket has to stay in the groove until you start threading the case down.

Thanks for any advice.

Update. The seller says they are custom made for him so you guys were right.  He's nice and I love the crystal so I will just buy several from him and hope to not need others for a long time.

I just found out they make clone 2892 movements from looking at Ebay today.  When the hell did they start doing that?  I get how they had a demand for 2836 and 2824 movements but is there really a demand for 2892 movements?

Is there anyone else frustrated they don't clone a 1530 or 1560 movements, etc?  Didn't the patent expire just as easily on the old 15XX movements just as much as the patents would have expired on 2892?  Are they gonna seriously end up cloning every single ETA movement ever made before cloning any 15xx movements?

Yeah I make jewelry and I don't know even know how you could really solder on dial feet onto an already printed/painted dial.  There is a super low temperature solder called "Tix" that we use in jewelry for when we want to use low temperature but even that requires some heat that I would think would burn up the paint/print on a dial.

Who as ever soldered feet onto a printed/painted dial?

20 minutes ago, jimcon11 said:

For what it's worth, I'm into vintage Submariners, and the best builds I've seen have not been made by either of those people.

As soon as we figure out how to 3d print clone cases then we will all be building great watches.  The "magic" is the few people who have the patience and access to original cases in order to shape them correctly.  As soon as we can buy cloned cases that are mass produced and not hand shaped, we will only have to have access to good dial makers.

That is very close but I believe slightly different.  Thanks for posting though as it's definitely a decent option.  I guess I could go with these and then at least know the brand and item number for the future.