JSebWC

A few years have passed and I bring this one back from the dead  with a new update.  Many moons ago , very early in my watch building journey I decided that I liked shiny things and realized that I had to own a 1019  and the only way to do that without selling the farm was to build it myself.

 

Before the great (forum ) reset   I had started a thread on my first watch project.  At the time it was a toss up between a 6542 and the 1019   at that time , pieces fell into place for the gmt build and the 1019 fell to the back burner for a bit.

 

a year after  I decided to tackle the challenge with the help of Tripdog.

 

I originally started with a 1655 cartel base  that I then polished the machined and polished the bezel smooth and was going to use .

This case set ended up being used on the GMT , which I am sure a number of you have seen by now.

 

 

Fast forward, I  got distracted and instead of buying another 1655 case  I  picked up a modified 6538 case set that had been machined to accept a smooth bezel and , so I went that route.

 

It was close in size  38.6mm

however I was never a fan of how the crystal and bezel fit and the gap between the dial chapter ring and the ring of the bezel  the proportions were off and I hated it.

 

 

 

[USER=43197]@tripdog[/USER]   was kind enough to assist with this build at the time as the only hands available were from Yuki  to fit the 1570 gen cal.  so they had to be broached which made them very delicate  and eventually came lose and the metal deformed and the hands were garbage after a few failed attempts to reinstall them.   No  shade to tripdog He did the best he could with what he had to work with, but the metal was just too thin.

 

Also finding a beveled crystal to fit the modified sub case was a challenge as well and after a few attempts I used a modified Tudor jumbo crystal but  it wasn't ideal or fit well.

 

 

Since there was no reasonable hand set for an ETA in the Milgauss style   I abandoned the project. and it ended up in the parts bin.

 

Years later  [USER=245554]@1016 lover[/USER]  and I were discussing a milgauss build and I shared my experiences with him and passed on my second  YUKI dial and hands that I had bought to him for his project.

 

The major roadblock for me on this build was the hands..... Yuki and others in the past just used a variation of dj hands.   not correct.

 

(pick from Yuki site way back when showing their dial  - note the hand set.   .

 

Just when I thought I had gotten over my obsession....I stumble across a nice set of hands that would be suitable for a 1019 on ebay so I picked up a few sets.   Rare as hens teeth.

 

Well they arrived yesterday.

 

 

 

This , and I have been noticing  ppl; posting pics of their 1019s on instagram lately...its like it happens in cycles.  - this was the universe telling me it was time.

 

So last night I did a thing.

 

 

When the hands arrived,  I dug out my old Yuki dial and  Ofrie  seconds hand and  decided to do a quick and dirty to see if  the spark returns..

 

 well it  did rekindle my love for it. 

 

Specs:

Raffles Explorer case set.

5,3mm crown

drilled lugs to 1.3

no case work at all

Yuki Silver chapter ring dial

T22 beveled service crystal

1016 L  T 22 bezel

Asian 2824

Ebay Hands

Ofrie red arrow seconds hand  

Folded oyster bracelet.

 

I am more pleased with the results that I expected.   I have tried this build with an explorer case in the past but it just didnt scratch the itch.  however with the new hand set and the flat bezel, it really hits those design cues for me .

 

The sharp stock lugs on the case give the case some size to it.

The smooth very flat and wide bezel  from 1016L really sells me on this build  its really quite similar to gen.  the flatness of the bezel makes it look wider than it is which is a noticeable design feature of the 1019

 

The hands ,  aged to match the dial lume look great in my opinion.  not perfect, as the lume plots are bigger than gen, but  its an acceptable compromise for having the correct shape and perfect lengths for this project. to match with the 29mm yuki dial

 

Using a raffles 5.3 crown also gives the visual appearance that the case set is larger than it is.

Id say  its a solid 7/10 .   giving the few mentioned issues earlier and that the case is 2mm smaller in diameter.

 

I think I want to add it back into my personal collection so  I have 2 options here.

 

Keep the explorer case bezel crown combo and  add some bevels to the lugs and some minor lug  and side shaping to the mid case.

The gen has flatter case flanks.

 

or

 

As a Christmas gift to myself,  I am about to pull the trigger on  1655 case set from Tiger concepts and go that route.

shave crown guards.

drill lug holes.

machine and polish the bezel

shave the cyclops off the crystal

 

I was considering  the new raffles gmt case but the way the crown guards are in relation with the crown,  I dont think it will look right once I grind off those crown guards. where as I know the 1655 case will work for me as I had done it  previously.

 

Stay tuned for when those parts arrive and I go in hot on that mid case to make some milgauss magic.

In the meantime,   Here is some eye candy for ya .    not bad,  but that extra 2mm will make all the difference.

 

Size apparently does matter. 

 

As always, questions and comments welcome,  Thanks for looking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The flat bezel makes it look wider than it is , which is a design cue of the 1019 -  this flatter bezel combined with the flat service crystal really  nails the proportions for me and makes the watch look larger than  it is.

    

a tell is the proportion of the width of the bracelet in relation to the case .  If someone was to analyze this they would notice that the case appears smaller than the gen spec of 38mm  but the smaller crown, flat bezel and T22 crystal fool the eye to make it larger than it is.

    

14 hours ago, madasboot said:

Raffles dials are not gilt dials. 
they are printed in light brown.

 

The 6530 “honeycomb” has an overprint, largely incorrect:

My point is it gives the same amount of effort to do it right or to do it wrong and suppliers like rffls and others have been doing it wrong for decades.

They mass produce them so price is as cheap as the quality.

that is the reason I started doing my own, time and production are quite a high toll but they are correct.

@JSebWC, if you find them expensive try to do one yourself

if you are happy with rffls i am not, but i am happy for you.

in the end it is an hobby but each one of us has our own standards. 
having different standards, we also have different results…

this is an example of a true gilt dial, carved explorer, first generation, self made, self lumed:

 

 

perfection has costs and that is why i do them for myself.

 

best,

M.

PS- I am not comparing a ferrari to a ford, i am just saying that if i cannot afford a ferrari, i prefer walking than driving a ford.

 

Since you felt the need to bring this back up and call me out on it for some reason,  I guess I'll  respond .   I cant tell if you have an issue with me or raffles...anyway.

 

Raffles dials uses a gold paint, not brown  and because they are gold paint, the paint obviously is applied to the surface instead -  it will be on top.   I've handled their products and can tell you that the durability and quality of their dials is very good , all things considered.   

Have you personally handled one ?  I would say the  dials he  that he has released in the last 2 years are on par or better quality than Yuki  and at a third of the price.   Raffles is not a dial maker , he does not make the products he sells,  he has working relationships with factories that make the products or him and other resellers online.  Again you are comparing Ford to Ferrari 

 

"My point is it gives the same amount of effort to do it right or to do it wrong and suppliers like rffls and others have been doing it wrong for decades.

They mass produce them so price is as cheap as the quality.

that is the reason I started doing my own, time and production are quite a high toll but they are correct.

 

You contradict yourself ,   you say it takes the same amount of effort to do it wrong  and then you tell us there is "a high toll"   to "do it right".    clearly wrong,  if it was just as easy  to do it "right"  then they would probably  be doing it .  obviously its easier to pad print dials .    Even some of the Vietnam dial makers pad print their dials and frankly their durability of the finish and lume is far more delicate than the raffles products. which is a huge disappointment considering they are 10 times the price of raffles 

 

That being said  I have not experienced your dials in hand .  I did reach out to you to buy a 6350 dial   after you told me you do it  right and  are of exceptional quality and I was presented this. 

 

 

Is this done right and exceptional ?  I felt like I was being offered a defective seconds quality for a top price.   It wasn't the $500 euro that you quoted me for the dial , it was the  overall appearance specifically of the cornet that turned me off .   I am only being honest  on the overall appearance of the products you offered me.     All things considered I like the overall look of your dials but I was not satisfied with how the cornet turned out on this example and decided to pass.  I do like that your dials are "engraved" but  I just wasn't happy with the cornet. 

Nothing personal.  just sharing my democratic opinion on the forum. and giving you  valuable feedback.   

 

So now anytime I post on here,  you seem to thread jack and turn it into a sales pitch for your own products, while either intentionally or not running  down other peoples products and builds. 

which comes off as rude.

 

"@JSebWC, if you find them expensive try to do one yourself "   

 

You know what?  I have plans to do  just that this winter   Its not the cost  because you stated that earlier that  cost the same to do it wrong as it is to do it right.  , its the skills and practice and I know that I have the talents to do this.   So if that's the case, why is that you charge what you do for your dials and raffles charges $35.00 ?   or right..."volume "

 

This is my neg gilt dial which you criticized heavily in our chat ,    you criticized the process, you criticized the quality and the durability  without personally handling one.  The only thing you didn't do was insult his mother.. 

 

 I am very pleased with my dial and especially the cornet  (since we are doing comparisons ) and it was a fraction of the cost of your dial for a   negative gilt dial.   

 

I can already here you replying and saying that its not 100% correct. ...It is only 90% correct , but its a cleaner finish and looks  great on the wrist and quite remarkable  results considering the process.  but at the end of the day  its not always about the product, or the price but the person you're dealing with .  

 

 

Enjoy your walk. 

 

13 hours ago, thecloudhopper said:

19 hours ago, JSebWC said:

gilt dial 6610

is it a raffles dial? 

 

No, this is not a raffles dial ,This  is  an actual negative relief gilt dial from a dial maker friend  in France.   I am very pleased with his work .   He is a skilled and  polite., yet humble about his talents. 

 

Raffles has come out with a "gilt paint"  gloss 6610 that is very impressive for $35.00  

 

This is the raffles dial.  It looks great for the price.  regardless of what other egotistical critics have to say

 

Here it is again next to my true gilt 6610  for comparison .  For someone who wants to experiment with watchmaking or is just getting into the hobby ,  the raffles parts are easily the best value for the money 

gilt dial 6610

That looks like  a cartel case    the shape of the crown side lug is too thick and sticks out past the bezel , like the cartel cases do. and those crown guards are thiccc!!

 

THE LISTING STATES THAT IT HAS SOLD.

 

ouch!

You sell your 6350 dials for $100?? 

1 hour ago, thecloudhopper said:

Where could one find one of these Tiger concept cases?  
 

 

http://www.tiger-concept.com/watch-case.html

 

They sell complete builds and also parts.  they offer a variety of models .  I use their 1016 P case set 

50 minutes ago, automatico said:

JSebWC:

Bring this back from the dead with a few recent builds. 

 

A '16 with a hair puller bracelet!  That takes me back.

 

madasboot:

The 6350 dial is being made in 28.5mm and not as a 27.5mm as per original and it is not being done proportionally, being the difference (0.5mm) added to the edge.

 

This makes the dial unusable in a gen case,

...and in a rep case the chapter is too far from the rehaut.

Regular explorer cases are also not accurate for this model.

 

Yep. 

Besides that, the 6350 has the A296 movement.

An A260 or A296 makes my head hurt just knowing one is in the vicinity.

 

Some info:

A Complete Guide to the Vintage Rolex Explorer | Mark Littler Ltd

That was my thought as well.   27mm would fit in a 34mm case  but you need at least 28mm for a 36mm watch   Ruby dials are 28mm for their explorers   

 

Beautiful dials my friend , however you are comparing   a Ferrari to a Ford .   Of course there are going to be differences in quality.     especially at that price point.   

 

For those just getting into the hobby or  trying their hand at watch making.  or to build a watch on a budget  Raffles is the best bang for the buck , without question   I would say they are now equal to or even better than Yuki dials at a 3rd of the price.    It is a shame that they use gilt print and not true gilt. but for the price  its understandable.   compromise .

 

I built a budget 6350 for a  member next door using the raffles dial and a Tiger Concept case set and a raffles brevet  + crown .  The TC case set has the thicker bezel and bubbled case back like a gen 6350  the rehaut to chapter ring have closer proportions .    I also used a longer merc hours hand and lollipop seconds hand .  These features are lacking from you  example.

 

There is always compromise unless price is no object.     

 

 

 

5 hours ago, thecloudhopper said:

How much are the new dials?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

35 usd 

This is the new Raffles 6610 dial that was long overdue  I had helped him develop earlier this year.

I  suggested they use the same print stamp and lume  that he used on his 6350 dials (which I also helped him develop)  and use it on a gloss dial plate.   the results are excellent for both dials.   excellent bang for buck! 

 

Raffles has really up'd his game this year.  

6610 vs 6350 

 

Excellent comparison  thread.  

Thank you for your efforts..  I've considered a z blue for a number of years 

Bring this back from the dead with a few recent builds. 

 

Its like taking your vehicle back to the dealer to have the battery replaced , instead of buying one from auto zone.....same same but somehow different.   but to some it makes all the difference.     I can understand this with high end pieces, but  I dont think every  DJ will be a highly desired collectable.  

well done.  looks great! 

Nicely done.   

 

Interesting to hear and good to know about the gen casebacks fitting the raffles cases.. thanks for confirming that  I hear rumor's but haven't tried it yet.. 

the casebacks are now over 300  on ebay